Scrupulosity Help

[isabelle550223]

Hello! I am struggling with scrupulosity in regards to chastity…and wondered if anyone had guidance/insight.

The particular situation I am struggling with is as follows:

this morning, my boyfriend and I went running, and afterwards I took off my shirt (modest sports bra on underneath) because it was very humid outside. Before we I left I asked to hug him (and if it was alright even though I didn’t have a shirt on). Now just to clarify, we strive to be very intentional when it comes to modesty and chastity. Looking back now I realize I should’ve just put a shirt on before hugging, but I didn’t and am trying to sort out the particular situation.
anyways, I hugged him and was first motivated to hug him just for closeness and as a sign of affection. But then I became aware of his hand on my back and my attention shifted to “oh no! I don’t want to be a source of temptation for either of us” so I pulled away from the hug. We talked for a brief moment and then I hugged him once more before I left. I’m worried that my intent was bad and maybe changed during the second hug. I do not know for sure though. I know in the beginning I hugged him to just feel close to him, but is it too scrupulous to try to figure out what my motives were in the midst of a second hug? I talked to a trusted Dominican sister (my unofficial spiritual advisor) yesterday and she told me to stop over analyzing situations, and even when in great fear of having committed mortal sin to receive the Eucharist, because my own ability to self-judge and determine the gravity of my sins is twisted at the moment. I’m afraid though that my motive was to arouse myself, especially because I don’t remember my thoughts during the entire situation. Is it wrong to assume that my motive was pure throughout the entirety of the hug? And the thought that crossed my mind about his hand was just a temptation?
In situations like this recently, by anxiety has become so severe that while hugging or kissing him goodnight or holding hands, I have to focus on not becoming aroused (even when the situation is highly unlikely to cause arousal) instead of focusing on showing him affection. This leads me to think that since my constant goal is to avoid sin, my thought process did not go through a complete 180 and become focused on arousal. But I’m still very uncertain because I THINK I remember the thought crossing my mind that “hey this is arousing and I’m alright with it. But no that’s just what my mind has been doing lately. I’m okay”. I’m not sure if this thought actually crossed my mind, and I wasn’t aroused during the hug period. But does this thought put me in a state of mortal sin?
even typing this I feel quite ridiculous. But I’m scared of offending God—any help is welcome.

IH

 

[Albion]

Go with what your Dominican sister/advisor said.

You are making too much out of this and the similar situations you referred to.

Besides, you would be a rare person if mildly erotic thoughts never, ever, so much as crossed your mind. You don't seem to make a practice out of deliberately putting yourself into situations in which you might be tempted too strongly, so stop torturing yourself over this.

Oh yes, you probably did make a mistake with that sports bra event, but you know now that this was something you should have thought better of at the time, so move on from it.

 

[The Liturgist]

Hello! I am struggling with scrupulosity in regards to chastity…and wondered if anyone had guidance/insight.

The particular situation I am struggling with is as follows:

this morning, my boyfriend and I went running, and afterwards I took off my shirt (modest sports bra on underneath) because it was very humid outside. Before we I left I asked to hug him (and if it was alright even though I didn’t have a shirt on). Now just to clarify, we strive to be very intentional when it comes to modesty and chastity. Looking back now I realize I should’ve just put a shirt on before hugging, but I didn’t and am trying to sort out the particular situation.
anyways, I hugged him and was first motivated to hug him just for closeness and as a sign of affection. But then I became aware of his hand on my back and my attention shifted to “oh no! I don’t want to be a source of temptation for either of us” so I pulled away from the hug. We talked for a brief moment and then I hugged him once more before I left. I’m worried that my intent was bad and maybe changed during the second hug. I do not know for sure though. I know in the beginning I hugged him to just feel close to him, but is it too scrupulous to try to figure out what my motives were in the midst of a second hug? I talked to a trusted Dominican sister (my unofficial spiritual advisor) yesterday and she told me to stop over analyzing situations, and even when in great fear of having committed mortal sin to receive the Eucharist, because my own ability to self-judge and determine the gravity of my sins is twisted at the moment. I’m afraid though that my motive was to arouse myself, especially because I don’t remember my thoughts during the entire situation. Is it wrong to assume that my motive was pure throughout the entirety of the hug? And the thought that crossed my mind about his hand was just a temptation?
In situations like this recently, by anxiety has become so severe that while hugging or kissing him goodnight or holding hands, I have to focus on not becoming aroused (even when the situation is highly unlikely to cause arousal) instead of focusing on showing him affection. This leads me to think that since my constant goal is to avoid sin, my thought process did not go through a complete 180 and become focused on arousal. But I’m still very uncertain because I THINK I remember the thought crossing my mind that “hey this is arousing and I’m alright with it. But no that’s just what my mind has been doing lately. I’m okay”. I’m not sure if this thought actually crossed my mind, and I wasn’t aroused during the hug period. But does this thought put me in a state of mortal sin?
even typing this I feel quite ridiculous. But I’m scared of offending God—any help is welcome.

IH

I think you should take respite in the most blessed sacrament of the confessional, and in that manner, do what your priest advises. Thus in that secret forum, you have the ability to receive absolution through our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and also guidance from your priest so as to how you should act, in your specific circumstances, in a manner which may be proper, whilst avoiding scrupulosity. You can access the sacrament as frequently as you wish, and the Roman Catholic Church furthermore does a very good job promoting the frequent partaking of that sacrament and the sacrament of the Eucharist, which is of paramount importance.

I think if you and your boyfriend frequently attend mass and confession, and also to the extent you are able, other things such as devotional services your parish may have, this could provide tremendous peace of mind and also help stabilize and sanctify your relationship as the two of you discern whether or not you are potentially in love and suitable for the vocation of holy matrimony. In all of these things, the counsel available to you personally, individually and privately, from your confessor, can be an enormous blessing, and likewise your boyfriend can receive the same blessing with respect to his situation. Confession is of course an individual, private experience, whereas in the Eucharist, this represents a sacrament you can share.

But where all of the ancient churches, like the Roman Catholic Church, the Russian Orthodox, the Coptic Orthodox and so on seem to agree is that doing this frequently is spiritually healthy, although it is important to find a priest to be confessor who you are comfortable with, because one who comes across as indifferent or mean can have the effect of making receiving this sacrament unpleasant, which is a toxic spiritual situation which can lead to scrupulosity and isolation from the church, which is unhealthy. I think from the sound of it, your Dominican spiritual mother has great insight and her advise sounds very reasonable to me. So you if you are comfortable with her as a spiritual mother, you should ideally have her connect you with a priest (Dominican or not) who can administer the sacrament of confession in a manner that comforts your soul. But I think @Albion is likely right in that her advise seems valid, but you want an official confessor in addition to her, that is to say, a priest she trusts and you trust, who can provide the sacrament in a manner that is helpful to you.

Go with what your Dominican sister/advisor said.

You are making too much out of this and the similar situations you referred to.

Besides, you would be a rare person if mildly erotic thoughts never, ever, so much as crossed your mind. You don't seem to make a practice out of deliberately putting yourself into situations in which you might be tempted too strongly, so stop torturing yourself over this.

Oh yes, you probably did make a mistake with that sports bra event, but you know now that this was something you should have thought better of at the time, so move on from it.

I would stress that from my reading of it, it sounds like an accident, and many youth who are less pious and conscientious do deliberately, owing to the passions, engage in more provocative actions, as opposed to this, which sounds to me like it was inadvertent. Given the moral laxity of contemporary society therefore, I would be hesitant to retrospectively criticize the actions of @isabelle550223 , because it was an accident, a mistake, and the sort of thing that happens in relationships, and the fact that @isabelle550223 cares enough to talk to her Dominican spiritual advisor about it, and talk to us shows a conscientiousness which can be cultivated if she actively engages in the sacraments so as to avoid scrupulosity and also be relieved from the burden of any sins incurred, and simultaneously, if she can get her boyfriend to participate in the sacraments by going to mass with her, and if they both use the confessional, and focus on doing church together, this will help them discern whether or not it is providential that their relationship advance to the sacramental union between two persons in Holy Matrimony.

@isabelle550223 I would also suggest that you focus primarily on what your Dominican sister and priest advise, and not rely on the Internet, because none of us know you personally, and we cannot from a remote position provide anything approaching the benefits of solid pastoral care and spiritual advise. Most Roman Catholic priests are well trained in pastoral care, which is a major focus of the curricula in many seminaries. And there are a number of them, so in the unlikely event you encounter a priest who is not helpful in the confessional or with pastoral care, it is good and not extremely difficult to find another. Many parishes have elderly or retired priests for example who still celebrate masses, frequently the masses on Saturday evenings and at other times, and other parishes have multiple priests, and also if you particularly like Dominican spirituality, which historically was very Thomistic and which I think has a healthy regard, on the whole, for avoiding scrupulosity and legalism through the theology and philosophy of Thomas Aquinas, a major saint and doctor in the Roman Catholic Church, whose views on many issues are easy to access, and who had great insight on a number of views, and is thus respected today both inside and outside the Catholic Church, and a Dominican sister can be a great resource for learning about that, for example, because St. Aquinas strikes me as being very good with issues like moral theology, mortal sin, sacramental theology and avoiding scrupulosity. But of even more benefit @isabelle550223 is the sacrament itself, and the ability therein to pursue in the best possible way, your personal desire, which is exceedingly evident, to live virtuously, in your romantic relations and in general, according to the traditional values of the Roman Catholic Church.

Also, one final bit of advise for you @isabelle550223 - I would suggest you consider discussing this issue either in one of the Roman Catholic forums on ChristianForums.com, like One Body, One Bread, or alternatively, in the Traditional Theology forum, because sometimes people who are in non-denominational evangelical type church communities do not always understand the values or the spiritual approach of the liturgical churches such as the Roman Catholics the Anglicans, Lutherans, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and others, and some people (not my friend @Albion , who is a gentleman) might provide you with what for your situation would potentially be bad advise because of the great difference between how the traditional churches like the Catholic Church define worship and theology, vs. how they are variously defined, or undefined, outside of the realm of traditional Christianity (which as I indicated before includes the ancient Orthodox and other Eastern churches, the traditional Protestant denominations like the Lutherans, Anglicans, etc, and also your church, and in the Traditional Theology forum, which is here: Traditional Theology there is a great deal of respect between members of these churches.

This specific forum in which you posted your request for advise, Denomination Specific Theology, tends more to revolve around polemics between denominations, so you might see some of that, and also encounter other people who rather than providing meaningful advise, are just going to criticize you for being Roman Catholic, which I think is wrong, myself.

May God bless and guide you, your boyfriend, your family, your Dominican mentor, and above all, your faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and I pray that you will find respite, consolation, forgiveness, true peace of mind and tranquility, both now and always, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

I am not going to get into much by way of specifics except to clarify something for my own understanding of what your position is.

1. Ask yourself this - If you had been at the beach instead of running on some sort of running trail would you be wearing something equal to or less than what you were wearing without that t-shirt? Would you be wearing something like a t-shirt on top of your swimming suit? Would you refuse to hug your boyfriend if wearing a swimming suit? Or if he were wearing his swimming suit without a t-shirt?

If what you are saying is that your normal practice in the context of a swimming event - is always to be more modest than what you were doing at the running event then you may want to reconsider your running event protocol, it should at least be as modest or greater than swimming event at the beach.

 

[com7fy8]

You are a young woman.

If he isn't doing obvious or sneaky things to push or trick you into more and more physical involvement, this can mean he is trustworthy. Be trustworthy with him.

My personal experience is that love is much better and more intimate than physical involvement, though the two can go together.

Be able to enjoy what you do have, not worry about what hasn't happened. There is falling in love, and growing in love. Enjoy growing with others who love you and help you find out how to love.

Maybe you should go see your Dominican sister, just to be with her, not only for a problem. And she might enjoy meeting him if she hasn't.

 

[The Liturgist]

You are a young woman.

If he isn't doing obvious or sneaky things to push or trick you into more and more physical involvement, this can mean he is trustworthy. Be trustworthy with him.

My personal experience is that love is much better and more intimate than physical involvement, though the two can go together.

Be able to enjoy what you do have, not worry about what hasn't happened. There is falling in love, and growing in love. Enjoy growing with others who love you and help you find out how to love.

Maybe you should go see your Dominican sister, just to be with her, not only for a problem. And she might enjoy meeting him if she hasn't.

I think this is also some excellent advice.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Listen to your spiritual mother. You are fortunate to have one.

Hello! I am struggling with scrupulosity in regards to chastity…and wondered if anyone had guidance/insight.

The particular situation I am struggling with is as follows:

this morning, my boyfriend and I went running, and afterwards I took off my shirt (modest sports bra on underneath) because it was very humid outside. Before we I left I asked to hug him (and if it was alright even though I didn’t have a shirt on). Now just to clarify, we strive to be very intentional when it comes to modesty and chastity. Looking back now I realize I should’ve just put a shirt on before hugging, but I didn’t and am trying to sort out the particular situation.
anyways, I hugged him and was first motivated to hug him just for closeness and as a sign of affection. But then I became aware of his hand on my back and my attention shifted to “oh no! I don’t want to be a source of temptation for either of us” so I pulled away from the hug. We talked for a brief moment and then I hugged him once more before I left. I’m worried that my intent was bad and maybe changed during the second hug. I do not know for sure though. I know in the beginning I hugged him to just feel close to him, but is it too scrupulous to try to figure out what my motives were in the midst of a second hug? I talked to a trusted Dominican sister (my unofficial spiritual advisor) yesterday and she told me to stop over analyzing situations, and even when in great fear of having committed mortal sin to receive the Eucharist, because my own ability to self-judge and determine the gravity of my sins is twisted at the moment. I’m afraid though that my motive was to arouse myself, especially because I don’t remember my thoughts during the entire situation. Is it wrong to assume that my motive was pure throughout the entirety of the hug? And the thought that crossed my mind about his hand was just a temptation?
In situations like this recently, by anxiety has become so severe that while hugging or kissing him goodnight or holding hands, I have to focus on not becoming aroused (even when the situation is highly unlikely to cause arousal) instead of focusing on showing him affection. This leads me to think that since my constant goal is to avoid sin, my thought process did not go through a complete 180 and become focused on arousal. But I’m still very uncertain because I THINK I remember the thought crossing my mind that “hey this is arousing and I’m alright with it. But no that’s just what my mind has been doing lately. I’m okay”. I’m not sure if this thought actually crossed my mind, and I wasn’t aroused during the hug period. But does this thought put me in a state of mortal sin?
even typing this I feel quite ridiculous. But I’m scared of offending God—any help is welcome.

IH

 

[The Liturgist]

Listen to your spiritual mother. You are fortunate to have one.

Indeed, this is the consensus opinion of myself and everyone here from a traditional church.