Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

[Servus]

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[The Liturgist]

Just more of your words in place of Gods Word. I am not even sure of the point your even trying to make here and how it is relevant to the discussion if I am being honest.

As my friends @Saint Steven @Jipsah @Der Alte @parousia70 and @bbbbbbb can no doubt attest to, in the interest of providing maximum edification on issues relating to the areas of Christian scholarship where I have some knowledge, such as Patristics, Liturgics, Liturgical Arts, Ecclesiology, Church History, Monasticism, and Mystical Theology , I frequently annotate my posts. These annotations sometimes become content for my CF.com blog. I believe that the primary goal of interaction on this site should be mutual edification and Christian fellowship, so as a result, my posts are not intended as mere set pieces in a debate.

What is quite revealing is the name tags some try and put on others who simply seek to believe and follow what Gods' Word says and when questioned by scriptures seek to talk about anything else but scripture. Yet it is scripture that is the light of the world that dispels and darkness and misunderstanding in regards to Gods' will. Anyhow we are all free to believe and do whatever we wish as God is our judge come judgement day according to John 12:47-48.

In my footnote I did not put “name tags” on anyone. Molokan is the demonym members of that community chose for themselves; likewise, members of the Church of the East consciously desire to identify themselves as Assyrians, and there is an Assyrian flag and an Assyrian Nationalist Movement. Likewise, Ethiopia is the name the country which in the West used to be known as Sheba, the Kush, or Abyssinia, choses to identify itself with.

I make a very substantial effort to avoid applying labels to groups they reject. I don’t call Syriac Orthodox “Jacobites”, except for those in India who use thst name, I don’t call Oriental Orthodox “Monophysites”, I don’t call Eastern Catholics “Uniates”, I don’t call Eastern or Roman Catholics “Papists”, and I also don’t accuse people of disagreeing with God just because they don’t share my interpretation of scripture.

 

[The Liturgist]

Was this recognized and observed by first century Jews. Is it recognized and practiced by any significant number of Jews today? NO and NO! So this doesn't even come close to addressing my question.

Not relevant to any point I am discussing.
[QUOTE]

Wrong! Mostly irrelevant! You can't even get this historical information right The church worshipped on Saturday 800-900 years before there was a "catholic church" with a "pope" in Rome.
Look up Gregory VII and the Dictatus Papae. That makes this complete paragraph false.

Is this supposed to make sense?[/QUOTE]

Indeed, and the existence of independent churches outside of Roman control, such as the The Ethiopian Church, the Armenian Church, the Georgian Church, the Church of Caucasian Albania, the Celtic Church(Irish and proto-Scottish), the Numidian Church (in what is now the Sudan) and the Church of the East in the Persian Empire, India, China, and all points in between, is not recognized, or these churches are falsely accused of Sabbatarianism or of being somehow under Roman control when the Empire did not extend into their territory.

 

[Saint Steven]

Indeed, and the existence of independent churches outside of Roman control, such as the The Ethiopian Church, the Armenian Church, the Georgian Church, the Church of Caucasian Albania, the Celtic Church(Irish and proto-Scottish), the Numidian Church (in what is now the Sudan) and the Church of the East in the Persian Empire, India, China, and all points in between, is not recognized, or these churches are falsely accused of Sabbatarianism or of being somehow under Roman control when the Empire did not extend into their territory.

As I understand it, the Christian church, which began mostly as converted Jews, moved away from synagogue worship on the Sabbath pretty quickly. See the quote from the Didache at the bottom of this post. (the Lord's Day = Sunday)

There is a misperception by some today that Christian worship was allowed in the synagogues. This is not so. Early converts to Christianity had to keep their faith hidden from the Jewish religious leaders. (John 12:42)

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

 

[HIM]

He told US this?
I don’t see you or me included in the audience of people Jesus was addressing in Matthew 24:3, do you?
At what point in the chapter does the “you” become people other than the disciples He was addressing, and how do you say the disciples would know that when Jesus looked directly at them and said “then you will”, “when you see”, “you shall be”, etc.. He in fact did NOT mean them the way you claim He didn’t?



He told them to pray that their flight would not be in winter, etc, not us.

And they did flee, as their mater instructed, and the Temple was destroyed, on time, as prophesied.

Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept up to His Second coming. VERSES 23 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION PRIOR NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.
How do we know? By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, and For in all the verses leading up to it. All of which connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?
No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day.


Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Saint Steven]

Our scripture comes from the bible. EGW tells us everything must be tested by scripture. Not sure if you noticed, but none of the SDA's on this forum quote EGW, it's always biblical scripture. The only people who bring up EGW is when they disagree with biblical scripture that EGW did not write, but does tell us to listen to.

Does this mean that you are claiming that the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) is a day other than the first day of the week? Even though the writings of the early church confirm that the Lord's Day was indeed the first day of the week, Sunday.

Lord's Day - Wikipedia

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Does this mean that you are claiming that the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) is a day other than the first day of the week? Even though the writings of the early church confirm that the Lord's Day was indeed the first day of the week, Sunday.

Indeed there is no scripture that says that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the earlier Church that is not supported by the scriptures. So what say is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures?

Matthew 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY

Well there you have it. "the Lords day" is the Sabbath day.

Only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:2-9).

Take Care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Does this mean that you are claiming that the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) is a day other than the first day of the week? Even though the writings of the early church confirm that the Lord's Day was indeed the first day of the week, Sunday.

Lord's Day - Wikipedia

Yes, Revelations 1:10 does not fit with being Sunday. The whole bible from the beginning to the future the only day that had special meaning to God is the seventh day His holy Sabbath. It’s the only day God blessed and sanctified. Genesis 2:1-3. It the only day that is holy to God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, its the only day God told us to keep holy Exodus 20:8, Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20, Isaiah 58:13 The the day that Jesus kept holy Luke 4:16 as the disciples Acts 18:4. Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath Matthew 12:8, Luke 6:5 Mark 2:28 This is recorded in all three gospels Jesus claimed the seventh day as His day, not the first day. So when we get to Revelations before the Revelations of Jesus Christs who repeatedly tells us to keep the commandments of God, which of course includes the Sabbath commandment and holy day of our Lord and Savior Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12, Revelations 22:14 so there is no way Revelations 1:10 is about any other day but God’s holy day, the Sabbath that continues on the New Heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66:23 as the Lords chosen day. We do not have a God of confusion. The Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday by the Roman Catholic Church who admits they did so without any scripture authority. Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but our bibles are and we should not change one Word, especially the laws that God personally wrote that are now in our hearts and mind in the new covenant

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As my friends @Saint Steven @Jipsah @Der Alte @parousia70 and @bbbbbbb can no doubt attest to, in the interest of providing maximum edification on issues relating to the areas of Christian scholarship where I have some knowledge, such as Patristics, Liturgics, Liturgical Arts, Ecclesiology, Church History, Monasticism, and Mystical Theology , I frequently annotate my posts. These annotations sometimes become content for my CF.com blog. I believe that the primary goal of interaction on this site should be mutual edification and Christian fellowship, so as a result, my posts are not intended as mere set pieces in a debate.



In my footnote I did not put “name tags” on anyone. Molokan is the demonym members of that community chose for themselves; likewise, members of the Church of the East consciously desire to identify themselves as Assyrians, and there is an Assyrian flag and an Assyrian Nationalist Movement. Likewise, Ethiopia is the name the country which in the West used to be known as Sheba, the Kush, or Abyssinia, choses to identify itself with.

I make a very substantial effort to avoid applying labels to groups they reject. I don’t call Syriac Orthodox “Jacobites”, except for those in India who use thst name, I don’t call Oriental Orthodox “Monophysites”, I don’t call Eastern Catholics “Uniates”, I don’t call Eastern or Roman Catholics “Papists”, and I also don’t accuse people of disagreeing with God just because they don’t share my interpretation of scripture.

Anything outside of the scriptures that does not agree with scripture is not edification.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Forgive me, but you are mistaken. I have in the course of this and other discussions provided numerous scriptural quotations and arguments, including in this argument, several verses adjacent to verses others quoted eisegetically, which had the effect of invalidating the claim made about the verse.
Additionally, I do not disagree with any canonical scriptures, properly translated. What I disagree with is EGW’s interpretation thereof.

Actually no dear friend, I am not mistaken. I am telling you the truth though it seems you do not believe me. I have not posted anything from EGW. I have only posted Gods' Word that are not my words but God's Word which you seem to be arguing against with your words that are not God's Word. Post me a link to where you have provided scripture to support your teachings? You have provided none. Perhaps I missed it? From my discussions with you all I have seen are your words that are not Gods' Word in response to Gods' Word (scripture) that disagrees with your words. What is it in the scriptures that have been shared with you that you disagree with and why (from scripture)? You cannot tell me can you except to appeal to man-made teachings and traditions outside of the bible that are not scripture. This is telling is it not, when Jesus tells us in Matthew 15:2-9 that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God, we are now worshiping God. If then according to the scriptures we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God who then are we worshiping; God or man? Something to pray about I guess.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, Revelations 1:10 does not fit with being Sunday. ... The Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday by the Roman Catholic Church who admits they did so without any scripture authority. ...

Whether you like it or not, the writings of the early church clearly define "the Lord's Day" as the first day of the week, the eighth day, the Queen of days, the day of our Lord's resurrection, Sunday.

I quoted the Didache earlier, which was written in the same time period as John's Revelation. Between 70 and 100 AD. Revelations is dated to 95 AD.

The dates on these early writings were well before there ever was a Roman Catholic Church. Yes, they do claim to have changed the day, but history does not bear this out. Of course, they claim Peter as their first Pope, which is probably how they explain such claims as changing the day.

 

[Saint Steven]

... Wikipedia is not a reliable source...

Well, Wikipedia is quoting the writings of the early church. Are you also claiming that the writings of the early church are not a reliable source?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Whether you like it or not, the writings of the early church clearly define "the Lord's Day" as the first day of the week, the eighth day, the Queen of days, the day of our Lord's resurrection, Sunday.

I quoted the Didache earlier, which was written in the same time period as John's Revelation. Between 70 and 100 AD. Revelations is dated to 95 AD.

The dates on these early writings were well before there ever was a Roman Catholic Church. Yes, they do claim to have changed the day, but history does not bear this out. Of course, they claim Peter as their first Pope, which is probably how they explain such claims as changing the day.

Some in the early Church did indeed call Sunday "the Lords day". This was never in dispute. What is in dispute however, is the claims and teachings of some in the early Church that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 as there is no scripture that supports this claim and teaching. It is simply a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church that makes this claim which is unsupported by scripture. As to the dating of the Didache? This is simply speculation as there is no date or author supplied with the Didache manuscript that mysteriously appeared in the 1800's, so the date is unknown. The dating of the Didache is at best a guess based on speculation which is why there is such a wide range of dating by scholars from 100 to 400 AD. That said it really makes no difference as the Greek word to "Lords [day]" is not in the Greek in Didache 14.1 in the original Greek text and once again and most importantly, there is no scripture that supports this man-made teaching of the early Church that Sunday is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10. Without scripture everything else is simply a distraction from God's Word. I am curious to see when you think the Roman Catholic Church actually started. I would imagine that sources from Roman Catholic Church would disagree with when you think their start date was.

Take Care

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Whether you like it or not, the writings of the early church clearly define "the Lord's Day" as the first day of the week, the eighth day, the Queen of days, the day of our Lord's resurrection, Sunday.

I quoted the Didache earlier, which was written in the same time period as John's Revelation. Between 70 and 100 AD. Revelations is dated to 95 AD.

The dates on these early writings were well before there ever was a Roman Catholic Church. Yes, they do claim to have changed the day, but history does not bear this out. Of course, they claim Peter as their first Pope, which is probably how they explain such claims as changing the day.

I am sorry my friend, God defines what is holy not man. You are free to believe what you want but there are way too many warnings in scripture about changing or adding to God’s Words and not obeying God’s commandments which include the Sabbath which is the holy day of the Lord thy God. Isaiah 8:20, Proverbs 30:5-6, Matthew. 5:19

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath Matthew 12:8, Luke 6:5 Mark 2:28 This is recorded in all three gospels Jesus claimed the seventh day as His day, not the first day.

Wow. Have you read those passages? Of course you have. Was Jesus teaching Sabbath-keeping by example in those passages? (nope)

All three passages you cited begin with this. (Sabbath-breaking)

Matthew 12:1-2 NIV
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:1-2 NIV
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

Mark 2:23-24 NIV
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

 

[Saint Steven]

The the day that Jesus kept holy Luke 4:16 as the disciples Acts 18:4.

Seriously?
Jesus was on an evangelistic mission in the synagogues. Preaching to lost Sabbatarians. (unless you are claiming they were saved by law-keeping) He wasn't there to observe the Sabbath. It was just a convenient time to find them all together in one place. The same was true of the Apostle Paul in the Acts passage. He was there to reason with and persuade them away from Judaism. (as was his custom)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Wow. Have you read those passages? Of course you have. Was Jesus teaching Sabbath-keeping by example in those passages? (nope)

All three passages you cited begin with this. (Sabbath-breaking)

Matthew 12:1-2 NIV
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:1-2 NIV
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

Mark 2:23-24 NIV
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

I am sorry you did not read what I wrote in context so I’ll write it again

Jesus claims to be Lord of the Sabbath day, which is the true Lords day claimed by our Savior.

Matthew 12: 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
Luke 6:5 And He said to them, “The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Jesus kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10 and told us to as well. We see Jesus keeping the Sabbath holy by reading God’s Word in The Temple as His custom was on the Sabbath day. Luke 4:16

Both Jesus and His disciples kept the Sabbath as it was their custom preaching God’s Words to both Jews and Gentiles and whole cities on God’s holy Sabbath. Acts 18:4

The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath commandment, but Jesus never sinned. The Pharisees added their own rules to the Sabbath that was not the way God intended His Sabbath to be which is a blessing and a delight. Jesus was teaching them about the Sabbath but as you noted, the Sabbath was still a commandment and one that Jesus kept as should we.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wow. Have you read those passages? Of course you have. Was Jesus teaching Sabbath-keeping by example in those passages? (nope)

All three passages you cited begin with this. (Sabbath-breaking)

Matthew 12:1-2 NIV
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:1-2 NIV
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

Mark 2:23-24 NIV
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

Wow, if your trying to make Jesus a sinner we are all lost. Of course this is not true and a view that is not supported by the scriptures.

Jesus kept the Sabbath according to the scriptures and he was the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28; John 1:1-4; 14; Luke 4:16 . He just did not keep the Scribes and the Pharisees interpretation of the Sabbath and came to teach us how to correctly keep the Sabbath saying that the man was not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath was made for man *Mark 2:27-28 and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day *Matthew 12:1-12.

If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath according to your interpretation of the scriptures then we are all lost because Christ would be a sinner and could not be God's perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world. Thankfully that is not the care.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Take Care

 

[Saint Steven]

... there are way too many warnings in scripture about changing or adding to God’s Words...

Is that a fact?
I'm only familiar with the one at the end of the book of Revelations that is being misused to make such a claim. It actually says, "this scroll". Which was not a reference to the entire Bible, which was several scrolls (plural) and had not yet been collected and canonized into one book.

 

[Servus]

I say if a few Christians want to adhere to OT sabbath and dietary laws, let them.