Narcissism..

[2PhiloVoid]

The Comparison is very spurious because these people who maybe seem bossy on certain occasions aren't really using their position to help themselves especially in normal socially acceptable ways, like earning a regular salary from offerings, tithes etc. Paul argued for that in one of the epistles mentioning the passage about not muzzling the Ox but mostly was self supporting except for an occasion where he let the Philippians finance one of his missionary trips.

The other weird thing is that the guy I mentioned above who was diagnosed by a psychologist as being narcissitic didn't seem to me to qualify as such at the time. I just thought he was simply being dramatic in displaying his spirituality. I did appreciate his spiritul drive at one time, so it all came as a surprise to me when I was later told he wrecked his family behind the scenes due to his narcissistic behavior. So, I don't know. I'm not sure that narcissism is always as clearly detectable as we'd like it to be (Or maybe I just didn't know what to look for at the time).

 

[Pavel Mosko]

That's an excellent point, Pavel! What do you think drives some folks to identify others who have some actual, authoritative clout as being narcissistic? I'm just thinking about this sine I'm looking at the pattern of interplay that took place between Paul and his Corinthian detractors, John the Baptist and his Pharisaical detractors, and even Jesus in being identified as, above all else, "empowered by Beelzebub" and wondering why all of this invective of accusation takes place. Could there be that there was some kind of narcissistic nuance of personality exhibited by Paul or John?

lol I guess I would see that as a sign that they are heretics, or maybe demon possessed etc. Like there are a number of Messianic folks who have gone off the deep end, and begin doubting the authenticity of Paul because they think all gentiles should be Torah followers too, and begin buying into the "Pagan" origins theory on the Trinity, basically reinventing Arianism, or Modalism etc.

But this sort of thing is just one step removed from some of the big historical heretics because you are questioning or indicting somebody who is pretty much foundational and accepted as being sent by God.

 

[bèlla]

I hasten to label someone with mental health problems without proof. I've had interesting encounters. One in particular which results in an outburst every few years. The most recent occurrence was unexpected. But the pattern was evident.

Each accusation and barb was about himself. What I was or wasn't doing. Some of it was pretty fantastical. I took screenshots and showed my friend. She's dealt with that sort of thing in her work. It was like watching an old movie reel unfold. Pretty spectacular. Crazily so.

Reasoning with him is impossible. He wants the fight but I don't argue. I wanted to see how far he'd go. Lots of gaslighting and head games. By the third day he'd reached his stride. I asked him if you feel that way, why do you talk to me? The solution is simple.

I knew he'd explode. Like Voldemort in the duel with Dumbledore. He was really mad. I wasn't supposed to say that. I reminded him of his place and the matter was settled. We'll talk again in a year or two. He needs to reign himself in.

I make an exception on his behalf because I've known him a long time. But that may come to a close. He doesn't hurt my feelings and I don't believe the things he says. It's the principle that's problematic. I have zero tolerance for lashing out or disrespect. If you have an issue we can discuss it calmly.

I could never be with someone like him. He'd bring out the worst in me. I wouldn't want a friend like that either. I'm no one's punching bag. I leave troubled souls alone.

~bella

 

[DaisyDay]

So, those who are overly self-important or self-involved are not necessarily narcissists? I consider such traits to be narcissistic at the least. Two such people I know were extremely empathetic at times —at least until they perceived wrong-doing against themselves.

But I'm no authority on the subject.

Yes, a person can have traits without having the disorder. I think the lack of empathy coupled with a need for positive attention are key?

Why the SMH? Are you scorning what I said? Are not some mentally ill people narcissists?

No, I am not scorning what you said at all. I'm shaking my head that as long as the narcissist is happy and thriving, they aren't considered mentally ill, officially. That just seems wrong, but I am no professional.

A personality disorder is a fairly serious (and rare) psychiatric diagnosis. Like many kinds of characteristics, narcissism exists on a continuum. Many persons have small "n" narcissistic characteristics that, while annoying, don't meet the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

A criticism of my field after 30+ years of practice is we are prone to having what I'll call "vogue diagnoses." Someone publishes research or writes a popular book on a particular diagnosis and suddenly folks are seeing that diagnosis everywhere. Wait 5 to 10 years and that diagnosis will be replaced by a different diagnosis, then everyone will have that for awhile until the next series of articles or books come out. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a real thing, but in popular usage now "Narcissist" is a label too easily applied to someone that has offended us or who has not treated us with much regard as we think we are due.

The label existed before the diagnosis, but I think I know what you're saying. There is often a discrepancy between the common meaning of a term and its more precise clinical meaning.

I had a boyfriend, many moons ago, whom I considered to be a complete narcissist because he genuinely believed that what he thought was what I thought. For instance, when I'd tell him about my day, he'd get bored and say, "Enough about that" and then give a dissertation on his favorite subject - the history border wars between Finland and China - he had memorized it and it was not open for discussion - so boring. He didn't really get the concept of conversation being the exchange of ideas between people. However, he doesn't fit the clinical definition, just the literary one; I later came to believe he was on the high end of the autism spectrum, undiagnosed, but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[DaisyDay]

Yeah I have had a lot of memes on this sort of thing pushed to my Facebook account the last year or two.

View attachment 306332

Hm, do you think people are trying to tell you something?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Hm, do you think people are trying to tell you something?

No I think I got on those kind of lists because I joined life coach Richard Granon's group "Spartan Life Coach" Facebook group because of a friend who married to a Narcist, and I got feedback from all similar groups.

 

[bèlla]

I have seen some stuff out of the Prophetic movement in the Charismatic movement that has caused me some concern. Overall though I have been more concerned with people who have things like Narcistic Personality Disorder and other kinds of related disorders taking advantage of certain Bible passages and Christian culture etc.

Sometimes it's a religious spirit. I've encountered people like that. They use religion as a mask for self-importance and try to gain acceptance through that guise. They're super spiritual, unyielding, and heavy handed. Like having a blanket over your head. You're suffocated.

They don't emit joy or peace. It feels oppressive. And they always want the spotlight. They'll teach or try to educate others. Or say the Lord told them to do this or that. But when you go under the hood they're train wrecks.

They want absolute agreement and validation. Lots of ego stroking. Especially in public. Disagree and the truth its head. They can't handle it. They try to build alliances with others who make them look good. So they can feel important.

Some are charismatic in behavior and some aren't. If he's socially inept he looks for a woman who is to pave the way on his behalf. She makes him likable to others. Then he can be mister big shot.

~bella

 

[Sparagmos]

I really love this You-tube psychologist!

I've heard different things like we don't know the origins of it but this psychologist says it comes from having a neglectful but also over indulgent parent. They neglect you, but shower you with praise and attention for any positive thing you do.

I love her too! I hadn’t heard that, but it fits my one former friend who has narcissistic traits.

 

[Robban]

Are you a narcissist? Have you ever been hurt by one? Did you grow up with a narcissistic parent? Significant other? Do you believe narcissism is due more to nature or nurture? A mix between the two? Evolutionary origins? How much sympathy and tolerance do you have towards them? Do you find yourself attracted to men or women who exhibit this trait?

What is there to say?

Sounds like a form of bullying.

"No man is appointed as an authority over the community unless there is something
objectionable in his past,

lest he Lord over the community."

Talmud.

Good to know-There is only one who knows the secrets of the heart.

Not, when wrongly accused,

"And the worst of all, it is not true."
but,

"The best of all, it is not true."


Other than that I get the word narcist mixed up with a flower called narcissus, (doubtful spelling)

And btw, if someone is wrong, they are simply wrong it does not mean they are an heretic.

A heretic is someone who willfully leads others astray,

or so I have been told.

 

[Robban]

What is there to say?

Sounds like a form of bullying.

"No man is appointed as an authority over the community unless there is something
objectionable in his past,

lest he Lord over the community."

Talmud.

Good to know-There is only one who knows the secrets of the heart.

Not, when wrongly accused,

"And the worst of all, it is not true."
but,

"The best of all, it is not true."


Other than that I get the word narcist mixed up with a flower called narcissus, (doubtful spelling)

And btw, if someone is wrong, they are simply wrong it does not mean they are an heretic.

A heretic is someone who willfully leads others astray,

or so I have been told.

 

[Sparagmos]

Are you a narcissist? Have you ever been hurt by one? Did you grow up with a narcissistic parent? Significant other? Do you believe narcissism is due more to nature or nurture? A mix between the two? Evolutionary origins? How much sympathy and tolerance do you have towards them? Do you find yourself attracted to men or women who exhibit this trait?

I had a close friend who I realized was somewhat narcissistic. I ended the relationship when I realized that she never apologized. She had, up until a certain point in our relationship, treated me well but treated her husband and others like crap. She used to say her mother was a narcissist (she was) and I fear that the way she treats her son will continue that chain. He is a total extension of her ego and an only child.

 

[Robban]

undercover post of previous post, in other words a -----up.
haha.

 

[Sparagmos]

So, those who are overly self-important or self-involved are not necessarily narcissists? I consider such traits to be narcissistic at the least. Two such people I know were extremely empathetic at times —at least until they perceived wrong-doing against themselves.

But I'm no authority on the subject.

I think it’s a spectrum. People can have narcissistic tendencies. But as I understand it, a full on narcissist will never admit they are wrong and rarely changes even after being confronted over and over and losing relationships due to their narcissism. Whereas most of us have struggled with ego and have learned over time how to be a better person.

 

[Robban]

undercover post of previous post, in other words a -----up.
haha.

Just to avoid missunderstanding.
above post is referring to post#30.

 

[bèlla]

I had a close friend who I realized was somewhat narcissistic. I ended the relationship when I realized that she never apologized.

I believe that's true. The person I mentioned doesn't apologize. He did it once and it was weirdly phrased. He said, I didn't mean to hurt you this time. Who says that? That was a sign. Seriously.

~bella

 

[Mark Quayle]

Yes, a person can have traits without having the disorder. I think the lack of empathy coupled with a need for positive attention are key?
No, I am not scorning what you said at all. I'm shaking my head that as long as the narcissist is happy and thriving, they aren't considered mentally ill, officially. That just seems wrong, but I am no professional.

The label existed before the diagnosis, but I think I know what you're saying. There is often a discrepancy between the common meaning of a term and its more precise clinical meaning.

I had a boyfriend, many moons ago, whom I considered to be a complete narcissist because he genuinely believed that what he thought was what I thought. For instance, when I'd tell him about my day, he'd get bored and say, "Enough about that" and then give a dissertation on his favorite subject - the history border wars between Finland and China - he had memorized it and it was not open for discussion - so boring. He didn't really get the concept of conversation being the exchange of ideas between people. However, he doesn't fit the clinical definition, just the literary one; I later came to believe he was on the high end of the autism spectrum, undiagnosed, but that is a topic for another thread.

My wife had me watch part of an Oprah episode (rerun?) she taped so she could show me. The subject was road rage, and a woman who had constant road rage says she doesn't get mad because of somebody doing her wrong, (cutting her off or whatever), but because when they cut her off, they are breaking "THE RULES"! Then my wife told me that was how it was with her and me, and why she got mad so easily and so often. (Yet knowing that did nothing to temper her anger). She honestly thought that if her conscience says I was doing wrong, I should recognize that I had done wrong, complete with confessing my sin and repenting. She fortified her position with "incontrovertible evidence" (the kind of argument where the opposition is at a loss at how to begin to address.) Her point of view wasn't just the only reasonable one, but it was the ONLY one, at least while she was mad —her point of view was FACT, nothing else mattered! She could not live and let live.

 

[1rreducibly Complex]

Could it be fair to say narcissists have love for themselves. And love for no one else. Which trends towards being a sociopath.

While those who embrace the christian faith, should have love for themselves and love for others. Which trends towards empathy and compassion for humanity.

Narcissism may also trend with the pride (vanity?) aspect of 7 deadly sins.

 

[Sunshinee777]

'Narcissism' is a funny word. In the same way that I might say, "I have the subtle musk of the Caribbean Islands", and, "you could probably use a shower...", and "HE STINKS!", I can say that I have confidence, and you are stuck on yourself, but HE IS A NARCISSIST!"

Narcissism runs a wide spectrum.

I've been hurt by some who, as a result, I might consider 'narcissists', but more accurately, I would call them simply 'self-important'.

Well im pretty sure then that you haven’t met narcissist. I mean real narcissists are really scary people for real. But those people who have ’some narsissistic character traits’ are those people who are not real narcissist and not really scary, but do have some traits of selfimportance... I have met several real narcissist and those who have few narcissistic traits.
I have to say that I can recognise narcissistic person far away these days, lots of experience.

 

[Sparagmos]

I believe that's true. The person I mentioned doesn't apologize. He did it once and it was weirdly phrased. He said, I didn't mean to hurt you this time. Who says that? That was a sign. Seriously.

~bella

Yes that’s weird for sure! "This time?!" And apologizing isn’t even difficult really. She and I had a major disagreement. She did something incredibly selfish and just heartless. But I apologized first. I could acknowledge my part. Well, then she said thanks for the apology and that was it! We had not spoken for a whole month because of the disagreement and she had reached out to me to get together again. So she wanted me back in her life, but wasn’t going to demean herself by apologizing.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I believe that's true. The person I mentioned doesn't apologize. He did it once and it was weirdly phrased. He said, I didn't mean to hurt you this time. Who says that? That was a sign. Seriously.

~bella

Geez! That is weird. Although, come to think of it, I did have this one friend who said said to me,"If you weren't my friend, I'm come over there and knock you in the face!"

... and I was just all like, "Wh..wh..what??!!" I knew at that point something wasn't quite right with him.