Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

[Saint Steven]

Not sure if this has come up yet. If the Sabbath command comes from the TCs, what are we told about the TCs in the NT? Assuming they were engraved in letters on stone, here's what we have...

The TCs were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter kills. (Galatians 3:23-25)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus tells us to not worship in vain by obeying traditions over the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9

So why then does the SDA obey the various traditions that originated with Ellen White, the earlier Adventist and Sabbatarian movements, and the Millerites before them? Like the vegetarian diet, which is neither Kosher, nor ever indicated as binding on on Christians? Or the uniquely Adventist doctrine of the Investigative Judgement?

 

[The Liturgist]

Not sure if this has come up yet. If the Sabbath command comes from the TCs, what are we told about the TCs in the NT? Assuming they were engraved in letters on stone, here's what we have...

The TCs were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter kills. (Galatians 3:23-25)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

You are of course quite right. I don’t understand how we can be accused of following traditions of men, when we are in fact following the plain meaning of the New Testament?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So why then does the SDA obey the various traditions that originated with Ellen White, the earlier Adventist and Sabbatarian movements, and the Millerites before them? Like the vegetarian diet, which is neither Kosher, nor ever indicated as binding on on Christians? Or the uniquely Adventist doctrine of the Investigative Judgement?

Why do you always bring up Ellen White when you do not agree with what God wrote with His own hand? Ellen White did not write the 4th commandment!

 

[Saint Steven]

God defined what the Sabbath means so its not wise to change the Words of God Exodus 20:8-11

With that in mind, what do these words tells us about who the TCs were for? With whom was that covenant made?

Deuteronomy 5:1-3 NIV
Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

 

[Saint Steven]

You are of course quite right. I don’t understand how we can be accused of following traditions of men, when we are in fact following the plain meaning of the New Testament?

Yes, and it's a dangerous business to promote being justified by the law.

Galatians 5:4 NIV
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[The Liturgist]

Why do you always bring up Ellen White when you do not agree with what God wrote with His own hand? Ellen White did not write the 4th commandment!

I do not disagree with any part of Sacred Scripture. I observe the Sabbath according to my interpretation of its meaning. Why do you accuse me of disagreeing with God, which is a mighty serious accusation, every time I question or criticize some of the more unusual doctrines of Ellen White, or her alleged status as an inspired prophet?

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, and it's a dangerous business to promote being justified by the law.

Galatians 5:4 NIV
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Indeed. This is why earlier when I was asked to cite scriptures in this thread in support of the traditional view you and I and our friends like @Der Alte and @Jipsah hold, I suggested the entire corpus of Pauline epistles, and also the Gospel According to John.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not sure if this has come up yet. If the Sabbath command comes from the TCs, what are we told about the TCs in the NT? Assuming they were engraved in letters on stone, here's what we have...

The TCs were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter kills. (Galatians 3:23-25)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

So you are you saying we are free to break all of the commandments of God? That’s not what these verses mean.

Paul is contrasting the two covenants- the tables of stone versus the tables of the heart. The letter versus the Spirit. The ministration of condemnation versus the ministration of righteousness.

God’s Ten Commandments was not done away with what changed is the application of the law. This is what the New Covenant is about. Jer 31:33 God’s laws written in the heart and mind. We obey not because it’s a commandment we obey because that how love is expressed to God though our obedience John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 God laws are written on our minds so we remember to do them. James 1:22, Revelations 22:14

 

[Saint Steven]

Indeed. This is why earlier when I was asked to cite scriptures in this thread in support of the traditional view you and I and our friends like @Der Alte and @Jipsah hold, I suggested the entire corpus of Pauline epistles, and also the Gospel According to John.

This scripture really defines the order of events nicely. Before, until, now.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I do not disagree with any part of Sacred Scripture. I observe the Sabbath according to my interpretation of its meaning. Why do you accuse me of disagreeing with God, which is a mighty serious accusation, every time I question or criticize some of the more unusual doctrines of Ellen White, or her alleged status as an inspired prophet?

I didn’t accuse you of anything I provided scripture of God’s Word that disagrees with your interpretation.

 

[Saint Steven]

So you are you saying we are free to break all of the commandments of God? That’s not what these verses mean.

Are you claiming to keep all 611?
What do you mean by "all"? (some)

 

[Saint Steven]

I didn’t accuse you of anything I provided scripture of God’s Word that disagrees with your interpretation.

Are you hoping to end the discussion by presenting YOUR opinion as "God’s Word"?

 

[The Liturgist]

I didn’t accuse you of anything I provided scripture of God’s Word that disagrees with your interpretation.

No, you provided a scripture that you think disagrees with my interpretation. However, I interpret that scripture as validating my interpretation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are of course quite right. I don’t understand how we can be accused of following traditions of men, when we are in fact following the plain meaning of the New Testament?

If Sunday worship was a tradition in the New Testament where is that scripture where Jesus told us to keep holy the first day? Jesus shows His tradition of obeying the commandments of God by going to the Temple on the Sabbath as His custom preaching God’s Word Luke 4:16 as well as the disciples Acts 18:4

If Jesus is in the Temples on the Sabbath teaching God’s Word thats where I want to be. Jesus said follow Him and follow in His footsteps so thats the path I want to take as we all should

God bless

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, you provided a scripture that you think disagrees with my interpretation. However, I interpret that scripture as validating my interpretation.

How so? Let’s go though it…

This is God’s spoke and written word

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Not sure how you could intercept this as it is okay for Sunday worship. God told us to keep holy the seventh day. He wants us to keep the Sabbath holy becuase it is THE holy day of the Lord thy God. Not a holy day for the holy day seen again in Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13. Sunday God tells us is a working day see v 9. Your arguement is not with me.

 

[Saint Steven]

God’s Ten Commandments was not done away with what changed is the application of the law. This is what the New Covenant is about. Jer 31:33 God’s laws written in the heart and mind. We obey not because it’s a commandment we obey because that how love is expressed to God though our obedience John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 God laws are written on our minds so we remember to do them. James 1:22, Revelations 22:14

What part of "obsolete" don't you understand?

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you hoping to end the discussion by presenting YOUR opinion as "God’s Word"?

See post #276 these are God’s words not mine. Hope this helps

 

[Saint Steven]

See post #276 these are God’s words not mine. Hope this helps

Who should we credit for the spin? EGW?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What part of "obsolete" don't you understand?

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Again you need to understand the New Covenant vs the Old Covenant. The covenant which is the agreement is obsolete not the laws and we are now free to sin. We are in the new covenant God laws written in the heart and minds Jer 31:33

You can see clearly the Ten Commandments are not made obsolete Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:17-30, Revelations 14:12, Revelations 12:17, Revelations 22:14-15, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3

Sin is breaking God’s law even in the New Testament 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7, James 2:10

God bless