Teacher Resigns After Parent Complains Pride Flag Is "Personal Agenda"

[muichimotsu]

Nope. I could easily say that society disregards incels, marginalizes them, and diminishes their voices...those things don't make someone a victim.

Being victimized makes someone a victim.

And there's no identity that anyone has that makes it safe to assume they've been victimized.

Wow, the group you chose, who literally just manufactures and lobs abusive toxic language at women because they can't recognize that they are being antisocial human beings and instead blame everyone else. Yeah, that's comparable to people who are actually victimized based on their identity that is not harmful in and of itself (LGBTQ, black, etc)

If we're talking America, actually there is (mandatory minimum sentences, war on drugs, prison system's disproportionate effect on non whites per capita, the list goes on just for race, let alone sexual orientation and gender identity with our history in the last 20 years).

You not seeing victimization does not mean it isn't there, you're speaking from a place of privilege, something you consistently evade and prevaricate in confronting because apparently humility is not one of your virtues remotely.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Wow, the group you chose, who literally just manufactures and lobs abusive toxic language at women because they can't recognize that they are being antisocial human beings and instead blame everyone else. Yeah, that's comparable to people who are actually victimized based on their identity that is not harmful in and of itself (LGBTQ, black, etc)

The group I chose fits your criteria.

If we're talking America, actually there is (mandatory minimum sentences, war on drugs, prison system's disproportionate effect on non whites per capita, the list goes on just for race, let alone sexual orientation and gender identity with our history in the last 20 years).

You not seeing victimization does not mean it isn't there, you're speaking from a place of privilege, something you consistently evade and prevaricate in confronting because apparently humility is not one of your virtues remotely.

Mandatory minimum sentences apply to every race, as does the war on drugs. As for the prison system....I don't know what you're claiming? That the criminals in prison are the victims? What about their victims?

Also....what is with that criteria? "Societal disregard"? "Diminishing one's voice"?

This is a list made by someone who has never seen actual victimization. I can't believe you go around this forum calling people entitled. You aren't owed some sort of special attention from society....and as for your "voice" you have the same freedom of speech as everyone else...you aren't owed an audience. If no one listens, that's on you. It doesn't make you a victim.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh, you mean like Nancy Pelosi? Is that not good enough? How many do I have to find to substantiate this claim to your satisfaction?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/25/nan...ters-for-comments-on-trump-administratio.html


Oh, more appeal to ignorance: just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there, or that people didn't disapprove at all, it's not that simple

And the tearing down of flags and statues was not done with the intent of destruction, but placing it in a context where it is not suggesting approval by the public government. To quote Indiana Jones, "It belongs in a museum!"

I find it hilarious that we really haven't seen much of anything even over half a year after the incident condemning the January 6 attempt at an insurrection based on faulty ideas about "election fraud" in the 2020 election from the right wing. By all means, point that out, but the fact is in Congress, most Republicans played dumb and act like it was just free speech rather than the very thing you accuse left wingers of supporting merely because they aren't directly condemning it to your satisfaction or that you can find. If I say I condemn those actions, but still support the BLM movement as a general concept, does that make me a hypocrite?

And way to wrap it up with faux machismo and posturing like you're so brave and strong and everyone should like you. But you're not fooling anyone that sees how you're lashing out at everyone else, throwing stones in a glass house.

Cool...if Nancy Pelosi joins the thread I'll give her the consideration she's due lol.

 

[tall73]

Nice use of cherry picking and survivorship bias: as if those black people's success means some failure of character of the other black people who ALSO work hard and yet fall through the cracks and suffer. It's little different than someone else in the thread pointing to Asian success and not so subtly insinuating that black people are just being lazy or otherwise are ungrateful and trying to make themselves victims

Don't act like you somehow understand their struggles merely because you can anecdotally reference things that confirm your preconceptions and then downplay and borderline gaslight modern black people because their experiences still suggest problems where you don't see them

The discussion of data regarding Asians in America was in the other thread. And in that thread you said you didn't even know many non-white people.

But you told us we should look at the lived experience. Now we see how you react to RDKirks experience.

 

[tall73]

So what if we instead considered that a better framing of the flag is the reflection of celebrating diversity as a virtue? Then your little "persecuted" straight kids don't feel left out and everyone is represented rather than the opposite.

Better framing? We need to look at the statements of the teacher as to intent, and the response of the school as to their perception of intent.

The intent was not just that everyone was welcome, no matter how diverse, because the sign that everyone was welcome covered that. The flag was an additional message. And the teacher describes the intent.

The intent was that the flag would signal to people his support for LGBT, would underscore the message that he is an "out" educator, and that the flag would "represent" him and the LGBTQ students. He desired that LGBTQ students would seek him out.

Here are the teacher's statements from the KC Star article you posted:

“I didn’t have any teachers that were openly accepting of LGBTQ+ students,” Wallis said. “And so for me, as an out educator in southwest Missouri, I know what my experience was and I didn’t want that to be the same experience for my students.”

It was important to him, he said, and he felt that was proven when students who identified as LGBTQ came to him privately.
“It showed me specifically that what my intention was with the flag was actually happening, that students could see that I am a safe person to come to,” Wallis said. “That spoke to me a lot for them to be able to come to me and say that. It meant that I was doing what I intended to do.”

“But I followed it up by saying, ‘If you have a problem with the flag representing me, or students who identify as LGBTQ+, then you can probably find a different class,’” Wallis said. “

We don't have much information from the school's side other than what the teacher relayed, since they declined to comment on an issue dealing with personnel. But what we do have indicates their perception that he was had a personal viewpoint agenda, and they wanted him to stick to the curriculum rather than representing a particular group.

“If you are unable to present the curriculum in a manner that keeps your personal agenda on sexuality out of your narrative and the classroom discussions, we will ultimately terminate your employment.”

That they put that in writing shows that they were rather confident they were on solid legal ground, and based on the information I have shown on court rulings, they likely are.

 

[SilverBear]

About as dumb as thinking a Confederate flag makes you pro-slavery.

I don't know anyone who thinks that.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

As a teacher myself, I have to side with the school on this one... Such sociopolitical symbols and slogans are fine for a teacher's office, but the classroom should be as neutral as possible.

 

[TLK Valentine]

About as dumb as thinking a Confederate flag makes you pro-slavery.

A lot dumber, actually.

 

[SilverBear]

They advised against it initially per his account. They asked him to remove it when the issue was raised by a parent.

their issue being that the very sight of a rainbow flag turns children into homosexuals.

and the school bowed to this hate based complaint showing they were being anything but neutral.

And after he suggested people who didn't like the flag representing him or LGBT students could find another class they stated that he needed to present the curriculum without his agenda or they would terminate him.

What agenda? the flag was there but never brought up in class nor was anything it supposedly represents. This was just dishonesty on the part of the school again showing they were not and had never been neutral on the topic of sexual orientation.

It sounds like they did not agree with the notion that he should have communication that would "represent" a particular group.

As noted the teacher wasn't doing anything of the sort but the school clearly communicated its position and support anti-gay hatred. How is that in any way neutral?

No it would not. Being neutral would mean that they knew the school had no business putting a sign that "represented" a particular group in the classroom.
And we know they knew that because they advised against it before he put it up by his own admission. So when the parents complained and it was clear that this was pushing a personal viewpoint of representation they asked him to cease. Because they are not to push particular viewpoints unrelated to the curriculum, and as an agent of the state his free speech is limited in the classroom.

a quick trip to the Neosho Junior High homepage and their facebook page and a minute with google showed all sorts of signs around the school. The ROTC, book companies, the YMCA, Soda companies. Showing that the school has no problem with representational signs none of which are related to curriculum.

Nor is it the job of the district to educate parents on LGBT issues.

I find it difficult to believe that if a parent called this school to complain about the presence of African American students and personal complaining that such people endanger their children citing their belief that black people carry and spread venereal diseases that the school would not educate them.

Which step was taken after they initially advised him not to put up the flag, and then advised him to take it down, and then had to deal with him suggesting those who didn't like the flag representing him and LGBTQ could find another classroom.

“But I followed it up by saying, ‘If you have a problem with the flag representing me, or students who identify as LGBTQ+, then you can probably find a different class,’” Wallis said. “That prompted more calls from parents to the superintendent, and I had to have the meeting with the superintendent the following day.”

how many showed up? i am curious to know just how many had a problem with LGBTQ students.

They then warned he could not continue to push his agenda:

so they pushed thier own.

“If you are unable to present the curriculum in a manner that keeps your personal agenda on sexuality out of your narrative and the classroom discussions, we will ultimately terminate your employment.”

as noted there was no curriculum of this sort being presented. It was just a lie of the school.

The government teacher is not to be representing groups or viewpoints, but presenting the curriculum, which was unrelated to all of this.

the curriculum he was presenting had nothing to do with the rainbow flag or anyone's orientation.

Incorrect. They kept viewpoint promotion out of the school as it is not the government's job to represent a particular group. His free speech is limited as a teacher.

THe schools actions clearly promote a particular viewpoint

From the Missouri State Teachers Association:

Free Speech Update

School districts have the authority to control course content and teaching methods. You are generally considered to speak for the school district when you are in your classroom. Therefore, your speech in the classroom does not have First Amendment protection.

and he followed the school district.

Would they have objected if he had a photo with a spouse, or discussed his family without the prior concerns about agenda promotion? We don't know. I doubt it. But in this case they felt it necessary to place restrictions because of his prior disregard of their warnings to not use the classroom to represent a group.

the history of various other schools loosing lawsuits for trying to fire teachers who have such pictures or such discussion would have played some part in any objection.

 

[SilverBear]

It doesn't matter what crazy notion the parent had. The issue, as the school stated it, was his presenting his agenda, rather than just the curriculum.

what exactly did he present in class. Quotes please

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wondering who would complain about a swastika as support for students (some are skinheads after all) if the teacher never mentioned the Nazis or even hinted at anything else that might be for or against any agendas? There might be parental complaints. There might even be an uproar. There might even be threats of discipline from the school board. And many might even say 'good riddance' if the teacher resigned.

Yes or perhaps a Confederate flag

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wondering who would complain about a swastika as support for students (some are skinheads after all) if the teacher never mentioned the Nazis or even hinted at anything else that might be for or against any agendas? There might be parental complaints. There might even be an uproar. There might even be threats of discipline from the school board. And many might even say 'good riddance' if the teacher resigned.

I guess you were right. The same people that say a rainbow flag is no problem say that a swastika flag would be unacceptable. Point made.

 

[SilverBear]

Nope. I could easily say that society disregards incels, marginalizes them, and diminishes their voices...those things don't make someone a victim.

Being victimized makes someone a victim.

And there's no identity that anyone has that makes it safe to assume they've been victimized.

unless they actually are...but then you don't think that is actually a bad thing...at least for certain groups

 

[SilverBear]

The group I chose fits your criteria.

it actually doesn't but please feel free to explain just how you think it does.

This is a list made by someone who has never seen actual victimization. I can't believe you go around this forum calling people entitled. You aren't owed some sort of special attention from society....and as for your "voice" you have the same freedom of speech as everyone else...you aren't owed an audience. If no one listens, that's on you. It doesn't make you a victim.

when you call kids concerened about their safety in school "whiny" and suggest they need psychiatric counseling (fine examples of bullying BTW) that is an example of being entitled

 

[Ana the Ist]

it actually doesn't but please feel free to explain just how you think it does.

Sure it does.

when you call kids concerened about their safety in school "whiny" and suggest they need psychiatric counseling

If their concerned because of a missing flag, they do need help beyond what the teacher can provide.

 

[Ana the Ist]

unless they actually are..

Right, anyone can be victimized.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A lot dumber, actually.

Well since no one actually said anything about a flag turning someone gay, I had to choose something equally ridiculous.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well since no one actually said anything about a flag turning someone gay, I had to choose something equally ridiculous.

You didn't choose well.

 

[All Englands Skies]

The group I chose fits your criteria.



Mandatory minimum sentences apply to every race, as does the war on drugs. As for the prison system....I don't know what you're claiming? That the criminals in prison are the victims? What about their victims?

Also....what is with that criteria? "Societal disregard"? "Diminishing one's voice"?

This is a list made by someone who has never seen actual victimization. I can't believe you go around this forum calling people entitled. You aren't owed some sort of special attention from society....and as for your "voice" you have the same freedom of speech as everyone else...you aren't owed an audience. If no one listens, that's on you. It doesn't make you a victim.

There is a bizarre irony with the recent usage of the term "Entitled", the context I now see it most used is as a slur when somebody disagrees with an aspect of privilege theory. The irony is that somebody who cannot accept anybody who disagrees with them is pretty much guilty of acting "Entitled" as they think everybody must agree with them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You didn't choose well.

Lol thanks for your opinion. It means a lot.