Did Jesus save us from God?

[Dave L]

I wouldn't say so. If someone deserves to be punished and you take their place and free the guilty - that's not good. Not at first sight.

So you have no good motive for doing good?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900)

That doesn't explain how this all fits together.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

So you have no good motive for doing good?

That isn't an answer to the question.

 

[Dave L]

That doesn't explain how this all fits together.

Maybe you are not able to understand it being in a non-spiritual condition. Only the Born-Again can understand God. God in fact blinded the Pharisees so they could not know the truth about him.

 

[Dave L]

That isn't an answer to the question.

What is your motive for doing what you think is good? The Pharisees did good so people would think they were good.

 

[Believer000]

"Did Jesus save us from God?" seems to be a common question/saying among those who believe in universal salvation.

But Romans 5:9 seems to indicate that's exactly what happened:

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"

He saved us from God's punishment so we wouldn't have to suffer it.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Maybe you are not able to understand it being in a non-spiritual condition. Only the Born-Again can understand God. God in fact blinded the Pharisees so they could not know the truth about him.

No I don't think that is it.

I am not in a "non-spiritual condition". I have been "born-again".

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

What is your motive for doing what you think is good? The Pharisees did good so people would think they were good.

This reply is not answering the question.
The topic in question is:

God's righteous punishment for our sins is death. Some say Jesus took that punishment. That doesn't sound right. God ought not accept another's innocence replacement. The punishment is for us - that is right and it should be carried out on us.
There seems to be an inconsistency here - that God allowed an innocent replacement.

 

[Dave L]

This reply is not answering the question.
The topic in question is:

God's righteous punishment for our sins is death. Some say Jesus took that punishment. That doesn't sound right. God ought not accept another's innocence replacement. The punishment is for us - that is right and it should be carried out on us.
There seems to be an inconsistency here - that God allowed an innocent replacement.

Only those who believe are saved.

 

[Dave L]

No I don't think that is it.

I am not in a "non-spiritual condition". I have been "born-again".

If so, you would trust in Christ's death for the payment of your sins. If you want to understand the details, study the 5 points of Calvinism everywhere online.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

He saved us from God's punishment so we wouldn't have to suffer it.

Do you wonder about this?

Why would God declare a fair punishment for us, and allow someone else to take it?

I'm speculating that there is more to the story, I just don't know what.

How do you explain it? (Or perhaps you don't feel the need to - perhaps it doesn't stand out to you as an issue).

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Only those who believe are saved.

This isn't an answer.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

The answer is that God is Love, the perfect kind of love. The love humankind understands cannot measure up to the Love of God. The vastness of God is beyond human comprehension. With all believers, an amount of faith is required. Saving faith though is from God .

 

[Dave L]

This isn't an answer.

You'll see.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

If so, you would trust in Christ's death for the payment of your sins. If you want to understand the details, study the 5 points of Calvinism everywhere online.

This is not an answer to the question of an inconsistency - again.

 

[Dave L]

This is not an answer to the question of an inconsistency - again.

Sayanora ................

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

The answer is that God is Love, the perfect kind of love. The love humankind understands cannot measure up to the Love of God. The vastness of God is beyond human comprehension. With all believers, an amount of faith is required. Saving faith though is from God .

Is a summary of your answer:
Love beyond all understanding stops there being an inconsistency in someone else taking the punishment that only we deserve?
It's basically beyond our comprehension?

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Godly love isn't the same as human love. The 10 Commandments show a shadow of what Godly love is. Man on his own is incapable of expressing Godly love. You or I would not be willing to face what Christ faced, undeserving as He was.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Sayanora ................

It's not right to not reply in good faith.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt for a long time - I thought, maybe you genuinely don't see an inconsistency at all -
but in truth -
I don't think you have an answer and rather than just say so straight away, I think you led me round the houses without saying anything of any substance. Or explaining anything.

I'll just conclude that;
1) You think there is an inconsistency going on, but can't explain it and don't know the answer (which is fine).
2) I assume you just didn't want to admit you don't know.

It's ok not knowing, but not right to react by;
1) Not admitting it straight away
2) Trying to dodge the question
3) Accusing me of not understanding because I'm not a "genuine christian". (This one might be a fair point. It is possible that someone has a moment of realisation once they become a true christian - that opens their eyes to previously misunderstood topics. I think it's not right in this case because I think you used this statement to cover up the fact that you yourself don't know whats going on).

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Godly love isn't the same as human love. The 10 Commandments show a shadow of what Godly love is. Man on his own is incapable of expressing Godly love. You or I would not be willing to face what Christ faced, undeserving as He was.

My real curiosity here is explaining...
God declared a punishment, which was right, for us.
Someone else stepped in and paid it.
That's not right. That needs to be addressed.

I'm thinking maybe people have misunderstood the above - and it's not really what happened.

Perhaps they misunderstood an argument in scripture, or perhaps they misunderstand sacrifice, punishment, sin, death etc etc.