Full FDA approval will cause acceptance

[Nithavela]

I'm not seeing a lot of benefit in "might not die".

Understandable, if you think that life has no value.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Understandable, if you think that life has no value.

It doesn't, not this one anyway. The only value it has is that we walk with the Truth while in it, so that we may inherit eternal life.

And the Truth is, I'm not going to jump at anything I am not given the freedom to choose for myself based on facts and my own personal situation.

You may hand me my star now... I'm done with this living in Nazi Germany nonsense. I don't bow to the state. I bow only before my God.

The more you people push us to get vaccinated the more certain I have become its pure evil.

 

[Nithavela]

It doesn't, not this one anyway. The only value it has is that we walk with the Truth while in it, so that we may inherit eternal life.

I don't know about Truth, but you seem to have some problems with truth.

 

[KCfromNC]

I was referring to this:

The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs - The Post

That article misrepresents the actual research it links. There are a number of groups in the paper more vaccine-hesitant than PhDs - for example, people who live in states which strongly support Trump.

Thank you for the tongue lashing. Very satisfying. Hope it was as good for you.

Hey look, more attempts to make this about the poster rather than the content of what's posted here.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't know about Truth, but you seem to have some problems with truth.

God says I bow before no man. Your asking me to bow at this point, and my answer is no, I refuse to my death if need be.

We are no longer talking about a normal vaccine (this is anything but) it's the principle at this point.

The moment it became show me your papers or we won't allow you to buy food or receive medical care, is the second it became an evil perpetuated upon us.

 

[Nithavela]

God says I bow before no man. Your asking me to bow at this point, and my answer is no, I refuse to my death if need be.

We are no longer talking about a normal vaccine (this is anything but) it's the principle at this point.

If you say so. To me, this just looks like pride.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Given the death rate of getting this natural immunity, why would anyone prefer that to simply being vaccinated?

The death rate for covid is not that high . The vast majority of people that get covid fully recover. If one is young and healthy the risk of dying from covid is extremely small. A young healthy person might well conclude that the data suggests that vaccination for them is an unnecessary risk because they don't trust that the government and the drug companies have done their due diligence in testing but have simply rubber stamped the vaccine out of political and economic motivations. They might fear that there are long term problems that short term testing might not reveal. such situations have happened in the past. The fact that I don't agree with that conclusion doesn't make me think that it is an unreasonable conclusion to reach. Both the US government and the drug companies have proven to be untrustworthy in the past. Disseminating misinformation when it suits their purposes. In this case, I don't believe either would risk the reaction if they were proven to have been dishonest or incautious in approving a vaccine that will affect so many people. However, if one wants to be considered trustworthy one needs to prove that one is trustworthy by remaining trustworthy when one sees an opportunity to profit in some way by being untrustworthy. Both the drug companies and the government have failed that test in the past. So I cannot blame people for being skeptical even though I think the more likely situation is that the two are sincere in telling us that the vaccines are an effective, if not foolproof, tool against covid. If i am wrong and there actually are long term problems that have not been revealed by the short term testing, it is not likely to be a big problem for me as I am a bit older than that young healthy person and don't have that much long term left in me. So for me the equation is simple . I am older and have sleep apnea meaning any possible problem that might arise from a vaccine is absolutely the lesser risk for me. The young healthy person has a different set of circumstances to consider than I do. As always there is no such thing as a one size fits all solution.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Also, consider this (the anti-vaxxers here seem to ignore) is the amount of unvaccinated people clogging up the hospital ICU beds that could have been made better use to those who actually need hospitalization. (like someone who needs heart surgery)

But those times are changing, and the unvaccinated will be put further down the ICU list.

Demonic logic.

People matter, period. The medical world has always treated the "undeserving"—smokers, promiscuous people, the obese, drug addicts, murderesses (see: abortion), etc.—and still do, everyday.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Right now there are a couple of you who seem the type of folks who would have dropped a dime on Anne Frank.

Lol, all screaming in unison, "She’s in the attic!"

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Is there any data from them which gives any indication there's currently anything to worry about?

No. The trials won't be completed for a long time.

It is a good thing they'll continue to look for issues which might pop up in the future, but given the safety record so far, the hope by anti-vaxxers that those issues will magically start showing up just past whatever we've observed is more of a leap of faith than anything else.

There are already lots of adverse reaction reports on the US VAERS and UK Yellow Card systems, but those pushing for mandatory vaccination just dismiss it all.

I mean, a similar argument to yours might complain about car dealerships being allowed to sell new cars because we don't have complete 5 year safety records of widespread use of the new models. I'm sure people can see how this is a completely unreasonable standard.

That is a very poor quality analogy. When has anyone ever tried to mandate that people have to drive cars that have less than 5 years of safety records based on real world driving? That's simply not how it works. I'm amazed that you would create such an analogy. Didn't you see the obvious holes in it beforehand?

The onus is on those who support mandatory vaccination to explain why people should be forced to take a vaccine with incomplete trials. Assuming that some new drug, vaccine, or medical device is safe until proven otherwise is unscientific, unethical, and pure stupidity.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Nv

 

[Nithavela]

Demonic logic.

People matter, period. The medical world has always treated the "undeserving"—smokers, promiscuous people, the obese, drug addicts, murderesses (see: abortion), etc.—and still do, everyday.

Not true. People who destroy their livers by being alcoholics generally don't get new livers until they've been sober for 6 months. Many don't even survive that long even if they are sober.

Alcohol Relapse Rate Among Liver Transplant Recipients Identical Whether or Not There is A 6-Month Wait Before Transplant

 

[Nithavela]

Yeah, so?

It decreases the severity of disease and reduces the amount of anti-vaxxers from clogging the hospitals.

We see you, in post after post, manifesting who you belong to.

And who would that be?

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

And who would that be?

I edited that before you posted, and pretty much immediately after I typed it, yet there you are with a saved copy. Hmmm. The editing feature helps all of us reconsider our posts and to "cool off".

Therefore, kindly back off.

(oh, how I have learned to love the edit feature!)

 

[sesquiterpene]

Here's a bio-distribution document put out by Pfizer about some of the reactions human tissues can have to the vaccine elements:
https://www.naturalnews.com/files/P...nfidential-document-translated-to-english.pdf

Absolute nonsense. You didn't even read the study, did you? It was mostly about bio-distribution in rats and mice, with a tiny bit about metabolism in human liver hepatocytes. There's absolutely nothing in it to cause concern. You are only demonstrating the endless gullibility of readers of Natural News.

 

[Nithavela]

Absolute nonsense. You didn't even read the study, did you? It was mostly about bio-distribution in rats and mice, with a tiny bit about metabolism in human liver hepatocytes. There's absolutely nothing in it to cause concern. You are only demonstrating the endless gullibility of readers of Natural News.

The world is ending! Goji berries fresh in stock!

That site always brightens my day.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Starting to think "HisGraceBounds" is rather a troll, likes to play games.

He's not a troll. ... But I am a crash test dummy!

 

[Hazelelponi]

If you say so. To me, this just looks like pride.

No. It's not.

Anything that demands total submission to without exception, is demanding worship. That is my view of what it means to worship.

I submit to God, therefore I, in body and spirit, worship God, with my thoughts/mind, with my actions, and with my heart.

The government is right now demanding that I give to them, more than I give to God in worship.

They are asking I consider not the facts as we know them, they ask that I don't consider the future, they ask I don't consider my personal circumstances, my health, or evaluate risk versus reward. They demand only blind obedience, and are moving to punish all who do not give it.

I couldn't worship God if that was what God demanded of me, so how can I take a vaccine into my body, a living temple of God, according to that level of blind unthinking obedience?

Any person, and any government that demands it of me is evil because I cannot, under such conditions it becomes a sin for me.

Informed consent, given all the facts, without outside coercion, is the only way i am able to even consider taking the vaccine. By demanding I give a government what God never demanded I give HIM, your asking what I cannot give because I don't give that to God.

I questioned God, put God under a microscope and asked God to prove Himself God before I would submit to His authority. Apparently we aren't being allowed the same level of scepticism with this vaccine and I can't give to anything what I didn't give to God.

If this vaccine is the best thing since sliced bread, it'll bear itself out under scrutiny, and need never be forced. If not, then it's an evil being perpetuated on innocent people, which I cannot abide.

 

[jayem]

Natural immunity. The thing our sainted FDA wants to pretend isn't durable and robust. Memory B cells don't lie (except in a quiescent state, sometimes for decades).

Natural Immunity After COVID-19 Found Durable and Robust

The quoted study ran for 250 days. Whether immunity persists for the longer term is still undetermined. (Vaccine-induced immunity appears to wane.) But the price of natural immunity, for many if not most patients, is getting sick. Even otherwise healthy patients had a 9% hospitalization rate. 40% of people with underlying health conditions required hospitalization and 13% required ICU care. 24% of pregnant women were hospitalized. Link.

You seem to miss the big picture. Which is the stress that symptomatic Covid infection puts on our health care system. And the downward drag on our economy. Not to mention the expense. I've seen varying projections for future health insurance rates. So far, premiums for ACA marketplace plans have been stable or very slightly increased. I haven't found data on employer group plans. But I can't imagine that in the absence of vaccination, health insurance costs won't start increasing.

Waiting to develop natural immunity by contacting Covid is not a sensible option. It's an absurdity.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The quoted study ran for 250 days. Whether immunity persists for the longer term is still undetermined. (Vaccine-induced immunity appears to wane.) But the price of natural immunity, for many if not most patients, is getting sick. Even otherwise healthy patients had a 9% hospitalization rate. 40% of people with underlying health conditions required hospitalization and 13% required ICU care. 24% of pregnant women were hospitalized. Link.

You seem to miss the big picture. Which is the stress that symptomatic Covid infection puts on our health care system. And the downward drag on our economy. Not to mention the expense. I've seen varying projections for future health insurance rates. So far, premiums for ACA marketplace plans have been stable or very slightly increased. I haven't found data on employer group plans. But I can't imagine that in the absence of vaccination, health insurance costs won't start increasing.

Waiting to develop natural immunity by contacting Covid is not a sensible option. It's an absurdity.

...and so is thinking that we should naively place our faith and assurance in insurance companies and health-care systems, believing that they can just "fix it all for us" when things get tough, allowing us all to go on our merry way in the name of capital finances and the bigger economy.