John MacArthur, please remove the plank from your eye

[bèlla]

I’m not opposed to wealth accumulation and believe the laborer is worth his wages. But ministers with large coffers and side gigs should be more discriminating. Appearances matter and it lends the impression the church is funding lavish lifestyles.

Most won’t consider the side income. All they see is a pastor with a lot of stuff. It would be better to forgo the income or direct it to charity with a public statement acknowledging their stance.

~bella

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why get upset at MacArthur's income level if OSAS was true?
If an immoral action upsets you, think about how God feels about such a sin?
What does God's Word say about doing certain sins?
Did not Jesus condemn various sins with warnings of dire consequences to our souls?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to the question posed by @Humble_Disciple : "What did the Reformers believe?"

You responded on a public forum, and thus I am allowed to respond in return because you asked publicly (instead of by PM).

 

[Humble_Disciple]

As a former Lutheran and somebody that delved alot into Luther:

Luther instructed that suicide victims should receive Christian burials. He believed the Church should show mercy towards suicide victims, since they were not acting from a sound mind. At the same time, it should be done in such a way as to not show approval for suicide.

Justification by faith alone was his central, controlling doctrine. Which means he did not believe that sin could separate the believer from God.

Martin Luther taught that the only way to lose our salvation is unbelief:

Even if he would, he could not lose his salvation, however much he sinned, unless he refused to believe. For no sin can condemn him save unbelief alone. All other sins, so long as the faith in God’s promise made in baptism returns or remains, are immediately blotted out through that same faith, or rather through the truth of God, because he cannot deny himself if you confess him and faithfully cling to him in his promise.
Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther: Only Unbelief Causes Damnation

 

[FireDragon76]

You responded on a public forum, and thus I am allowed to respond in return because you asked publicly (instead of by PM).

You arguments are so bad, so bereft of any philosophical sophistication that I don't feel like responding to them, as no doubt the reply would amount to a waste of time. My comment was directed specifically to the question asked.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Timothy 6:10-12 says,

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:10-12).

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Why get upset at MacArthur's income level if OSAS was true?

I am not upset at John MacArthur's income. I feel sorry for the members of his church for having to pay his extravagant salaries.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You arguments are so bad, so bereft of any philosophical sophistication that I don't feel like responding to them, as no doubt the reply would amount to a waste of time. My comment was directed specifically to tho question asked.

Sounds like you don't want to deal with what 1 John 3:15 actually says. But that's okay. I will not push you to talk about this verse that others here are ignoring, as well.

I will leave you be.

May God's love shine upon you this evening (even if we disagree strongly on God's Word).

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So i guess king david wont goto Heaven because he murdered someone. Right??

if you believe that Gods grace doesnt cover every sin, to include suicide, your faith isnt real. If you are saved before suicide, then suicide wont keep you out of Heaven.

 

[FireDragon76]

1 Timothy 6:10-12 says,

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:10-12).

That doesn't contradict justification by faith alone.

In Luther's mind (and probably Calvin as well, from what little I know of him), you obey God because it is good and right to do, not because it contributes to your salvation. Even our obedience does not contribute to our salvation in any way, it is merely a response of gratitude.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not upset at John MacArthur's income. I feel sorry for the members of his church for having to pay his extravagant salaries.

You said you do not like John MacArthur, and then you proceeded to talk about his over abundant income (implying that this was one of the reasons why you did not like him).

 

[bèlla]

I’m not upset. I’m considering the impact of his actions and the assumptions that follow. Ministers have a duty. Especially those in the public eye. You have to consider your behavior and weigh its affect on the role. You want to represent Him well. Especially when everyone’s watching. Being out in front requires conscientiousness and wisdom. Maybe that isn’t taught in seminary.

ETA: My apologies @Bible Highlighter, I thought the comment was directed at me.

~bella

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So i guess king david wont goto Heaven because he murdered someone. Right??

I was not born again yesterday. David repented of his sins in Psalms 51. He did not keep remaining as a murderer and neither did he plan to murder occasionally because he thought he could not help it.

But while David did later receive God's mercy, David was not saved WHILE he commited his sins of adultery and murder.

How so?

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

if you believe that Gods grace doesnt cover every sin, to include suicide, your faith isnt real. If you are saved before suicide, then suicide wont keep you out of Heaven.

Where is that kind of saying in the Bible?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I’m not upset. I’m considering the impact of his actions and the assumptions that follow. Ministers have a duty. Especially those in the public eye. You have to consider your behavior and weigh its affect on the role. You want to represent Him well. Especially when everyone’s watching. Being out in front requires conscientiousness and wisdom. Maybe that isn’t taught in seminary.

ETA: My apologies @Bible Highlighter, I thought the comment was directed at me.

~bella

It's all good.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

To Bible Highlighter, the second you are saved, you are justified. Once you are justified, ALL your sins are forgiven, past, present, and future.
Romans 3:28, Romans 5.

 

[Paidiske]

Being out in front requires conscientiousness and wisdom. Maybe that isn’t taught in seminary.

Some things can't be taught in the classroom. This is where a robust system of field placements and the like is important; but even then, those experiences tend to be what you make of them.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Is John Macarthur particularly ostentatious with his wealth? Like does he go around and display it gratuitously?

 

[rocknanchor]

You said:
if you believe that Gods grace doesnt cover every sin, to include suicide, your faith isnt real. If you are saved before suicide, then suicide wont keep you out of Heaven.

Where is that kind of saying in the Bible?

"O Lord God, remember me, I pray! Strengthen me, I pray, , ,Then Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!”, , , and the temple fell"

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Is John Macarthur particularly ostentatious with his wealth? Like does he go around and display it gratuitously?

I wouldn't care about his wealth, except for the fact that it's coming from his church coffers, while he denounces Joel Osteen, who, while teaching a questionable doctrine, takes no salary from his church.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

How can I have any respect for Todd Friel now, a man who promotes John MacArthur as if he were John Calvin himself?