Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[RickReads]

I'm not accusing you of anything. I see you as the victim here. Just to be clear.

Victim? Of what? A conspiracy to refute your theology? LOL! Get a grip man.

 

[Clare73]

Right. Restorative, not retributive.

Except for that pesky little statement by Jesus that some sin is never forgiven (Matthew 12:32), and since there is no sin in heaven. . .no UR happenin' there.

 

[Saint Steven]

One thing that leads to many errors is one verse theology.

In your case, you have too many preconceived ideas about the Bible to be objective IMO.

One verse theology? That's not fair.
Everyone has preconceived ideas about the Bible depending on the lens they choose to view it through. You dismiss the scriptures I bring based on the lens you view it with.

I'm done with the party line. I don't buy it anymore. It is slander against God from my perspective. The angry volcano god caricature is a lie. IMHO

 

[Saint Steven]

Victim? Of what? A conspiracy to refute your theology? LOL! Get a grip man.

You clearly are not following the plot here. That's okay.

 

[RickReads]

One verse theology? That's not fair.
Everyone has preconceived ideas about the Bible depending on the lens they choose to view it through. You dismiss the scriptures I bring based on the lens you view it with.

I'm done with the party line. I don't buy it anymore. It is slander against God from my perspective. The angry volcano god caricature is a lie. IMHO

I didn`t dismiss your scripture but I have to argue that it doesn`t mean what you believe it does.

If we take away birth and just say everybody is alive in Christ. Then no one needs to go get saved because we already are. No need for living a Christian life because we just do what we want. Ok?

 

[RickReads]

You clearly are not following the plot here. That's okay.

I was successfully ignoring it till you brought my initials into it.

 

[Clare73]

One verse theology? That's not fair.
Everyone has preconceived ideas about the Bible depending on the lens they choose to view it through. You dismiss the scriptures I bring based on the lens you view it with.

I'm done with the party line. I don't buy it anymore. It is slander against God from my perspective. The angry volcano god caricature is a lie. IMHO

And yet the NT everywhere testifies to the wrath of God (John 3:36; Romans 5:9, 1:18, 2:5, 9:22, 13:4; Ephesians 2:3; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:16; Revelation 19:15).

You make it pretty clear who your authority for God's truth is, and it ain't the word of God written.

 

[Saint Steven]

There are no contradictions that I know of save one that I know to be a translation error.

All three doctrines of the final judgment are both biblical and contradictory.

1) Damnationism claims that "the lost" will burn forever.
2) Annihilationism claims "the lost" will be destroyed and no longer exist.
3) Ultimate Redemption claims that everything and everyone will be restored.

All three views are biblical and contradictory.

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

 

[Saint Steven]

I was successfully ignoring it till you brought my initials into it.

So, you were ignoring it initially? Er, wait... - lol

 

[RickReads]

All three doctrines of the final judgment are both biblical and contradictory.

1) Damnationism claims that "the lost" will burn forever.
2) Annihilationism claims "the lost" will be destroyed and no longer exist.
3) Ultimate Redemption claims that everything and everyone will be restored.

All three views are biblical and contradictory.

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

I will only address scriptures and on this material, my view is similar to the guy in your video.

 

[RickReads]

So, you were ignoring it initially? Er, wait... - lol

RR <---------------------------

 

[Saint Steven]

I didn`t dismiss your scripture but I have to argue that it doesn`t mean what you believe it does.

If we take away birth and just say everybody is alive in Christ. Then no one needs to go get saved because we already are. No need for living a Christian life because we just do what we want. Ok?

That's seems like a pretty shallow view of life and death. There are both spiritual and physical aspects. The scripture in question is not talking about physical life, it is talking about spiritual life. And for the majority, it is spiritual life deferred. (or not yet realized)

Life: physical and spiritual
Death: physical and spiritual

 

[Saint Steven]

I will only address scriptures and on this material, my view is similar to the guy in your video.

Well, he gave you the scriptures for all three views. Did you happen to notice the contradictions? They don't all agree. Which means all three biblical views are contradictory. Imagine that.

 

[Saint Steven]

RR <---------------------------

Don't tell me. Let me guess.

Railroad?

Rest and relaxation?

 

[RickReads]

Don't tell me. Let me guess.

Railroad?

Rest and relaxation?

Worldliness to hide it.

 

[RickReads]

That's seems like a pretty shallow view of life and death. There are both spiritual and physical aspects. The scripture in question is not talking about physical life, it is talking about spiritual life. And for the majority, it is spiritual life deferred. (or not yet realized)

Life: physical and spiritual
Death: physical and spiritual

Ok, if it`s spiritual and spiritual life deferred then you must acknowledge my points as valid.

 

[RickReads]

Well, he gave you the scriptures for all three views. Did you happen to notice the contradictions? They don't all agree. Which means all three biblical views are contradictory. Imagine that.

I only watched in part, I like to read but videos not so much. I don`t believe there are true contradictions in the scriptures but I would have to take a hard look before giving an opinion. Been a long time since I made an attempt to settle it.

 

[Saint Steven]

Ok, if it`s spiritual and spiritual life deferred then you must acknowledge my points as valid.

No.
"... it is spiritual life deferred. (or not yet realized)"
Like reservations for a hotel. You have it before you arrive.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's seems like a pretty shallow view of life and death. There are both spiritual and physical aspects. The scripture in question is not talking about physical life, it is talking about spiritual life. And for the majority, it is spiritual life deferred. (or not yet realized)

Life: physical and spiritual
Death: physical and spiritual

 

[Cormack]

I don`t believe there are true contradictions in the scriptures but I would have to take a hard look before giving an opinion.

(1) Would you agree that there are apparent contradictions in the scriptures? Agreeing to that would probably remove a lot of fire from this debate y’all are having.

(1) So while there’s no true contradiction, you wouldn’t feel that the people who affirm biblical contractions are committing intellectual Hari-kari, right? They’re being true to their voice of conscience.

(2) The only thing I’d be left wondering then is do you personally hold the opinion that there are no true biblical contradictions as an axiomatic thing, like it’s just the way that it is because we have already presupposed the impeccably of the canon, or do you hold to the no contradictions view because there really doesn’t appear to be any viable contradictions to you.
________
It seems as though I’m asking the same question twice here, but just as an explanatory note, (1) is to do with what you can realistically permit as being fair in the lives of other people. While (2) is more me asking about your own private opinion.

God bless @Saint Steven and @RickReads, do me a kindness and avoid the baskets dirty laundry being aired in chat. You’re both smart guys.

 

[Cormack]

I will only address scriptures and on this material, my view is similar to the guy in your video.

He’s a pretty cool guy, has a daily radio show you can catch called the Narrow Path and he even answers emails if you question him on something.

I remember asking him something like how is Jesus not affected by sin when A) He was tempted like us in all things (meaning lust of the eyes,) and B. If He lusted with the eyes isn’t He guilty of polluting Himself via His own teaching that “if any man looks at a woman and lusts for her, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”?

He got back to me in like a week with a pretty boss answer. Was very satisfied by the depth he went into, considering how busy him and his team must be. I don’t remember all the details because it was so long ago, but it’s probably still bopping around my inbox somewhere.

Anyway yeah, cool guy, very down to earth.