More than 150 Houston hospital workers fired or quit after refusing COVID-19 vaccine

[KCfromNC]

What consequences do you think a person should face for being cautious about what substances they have injected into their body after hearing of other people being seriously injured or even dying after they received the same substance?

Given this particular question, I'm more pondering the social consequences of asking misinformed, leading questions.

 

[KCfromNC]

And yet this thread has seen plenty of hand-waving away of a similar vaccine injury rate.

There's zero evidence of a vaccine injury rate anywhere near as high. Please, as hard as it will prove for the anti-vaxx side, let's try stick to reality.

 

[KCfromNC]

And how does that pressure come about? Censorship, job loss. While we don't even know the important facts.

Yes we do - all the evidence shows that the vaccines are highly effective in preventing covid and are also extremely safe. That's why we get posts from anti-vaxxers avoiding these facts and instead proposing leading and counterfactual hypotheticals - the facts don't really line up with what they wish were true.

 

[KCfromNC]

The vulnerable population has been vaccinated. Healthy younger adults, and Children are another matter. Do you want to experiment with people?

We don't need to experiment - we already know what happens with the disease running rampant in an unvaccinated population.

 

[expos4ever]

Your own quote showed he lied. He said they were ineffective because there was not enough ppe to go around.

Dr. Fauci did NOT say this.

Aldebaran said that Dr. Fauci said this.

Big difference.

There is nothing in my post that demonstrates that Dr. Fauci lied.

As for others, well that it is a different matter.

 

[Bobber]

Maybe you support extrajudicial forms of coercion and punishment, such as public shaming, but I do not. Do you not understand the importance of following due process, and serving justice through the proper channels?

Maybe something else that should be considered. Some people may have a greater risk for health problems by taking a vaccine as compared to others and there's something I've never heard anyone ever talk about and that's the actual fear or even terror some have of taking one. That may sound silly and non valid to one's who don't experience it but stress or an overly amount of such could cause one to have a heart attack. We know stress, worry and fear can do that for any other thing....why not for this?

Some have all kinds of phobias. Some find it almost impossible to go into an MRI machine because of claustrophobia. ....or to fly or to go into water. I know one who got their first vaccine. Their neighbor did too and they were so sick for numbers of days they had to call an ambulance. And then their left side became paralyzed. (to be fair I don't know if they're still in the same state if it corrected itself, maybe it did, don't know) but that person the first one who didn't get a bad reaction is now scared out of their wits to get the second shot.

And if they don't what? We're just going to shame people now? They're literally scared out of their wits so we're just going to add on as the one poster said, CRUSHING SOCIAL PRESSURE? Really? What are we becoming if we do this? Seems to me it'd be like the novel 1984. Really the world we want to have? I sincerely hope not.

 

[ralliann]

Dr. Fauci did NOT say this.

Aldebaran said that Dr. Fauci said this.

Big difference.

There is nothing in my post that demonstrates that Dr. Fauci lied.

As for others, well that it is a different matter.

I watched it. But just like the people in the video available to all of us here, it is tossed aside.

 

[ralliann]

Maybe something else that should be considered. Some people may have a greater risk for health problems by taking a vaccine as compared to others and there's something I've never heard anyone ever talk about and that's the actual fear or even terror some have of taking one. That may sound silly and non valid to one's who don't experience it but stress or an overly amount of such could cause one to have a heart attack. We know stress, worry and fear can do that for any other thing....why not for this?

Some have all kinds of phobias. Some find it almost impossible to go into an MRI machine because of claustrophobia. ....or to fly or to go into water. I know one who got their first vaccine. Their neighbor did too and they were so sick for numbers of days they had to call an ambulance. And then their left side became paralyzed. (to be fair I don't know if they're still in the same state if it corrected itself, maybe it did, don't know) but that person the first one who didn't get a bad reaction is now scared out of their wits to get the second shot.

And if they don't what? We're just going to shame people now? They're literally scared out of their wits so we're just going to add on as the one poster said, CRUSHING SOCIAL PRESSURE? Really? What are we becoming if we do this? Seems to me it'd be like the novel 1984. Really the world we want to have? I sincerely hope not.

I know of three people (2 just last week) that died after the vax. I also heard (at the same time) of ambulance workers who got the call to pick up some of the people due to reactions. You would think that hospital workers, and people in the medical field not wanting the vax would make people pause just a bit. Nope. These people were so called heros a year ago to expose themselves to the virus, yet now tossed aside.

 

[expos4ever]

I watched it. But just like the people in the video available to all of us here, it is tossed aside.

Not sure how what you write here relates to my post. My point is that there has been no evidence presented in this thread that Dr. Fauci lied.

 

[expos4ever]

I know of three people (2 just last week) that died after the vax.

Lots of people die every day - vaccine or no vaccine. Correlation is not causation.

 

[ralliann]

Not sure how what you write here relates to my post. My point is that there has been no evidence presented in this thread that Dr. Fauci lied.

Yeah he was on t.v.. it obviously does not matter to you. After your reaction to the video as those who subjected themselves to the trial, calling them anti vaxxers. Why would I show you anything. It is a waste. There is no proof you accept so....Others of us, can hear and have and will. And of course know that many are not willing to go public for fear of losing their jobs. And as you have clearly stated, that crushing pressure is all good. If people can't speak freely because of that attitude, what good is it doing?

 

[expos4ever]

Why would I show you anything. It is a waste. There is no proof you accept so....

Code for: I don't have any evidence that Dr. Fauci lied.

It is sad that people are not willing to own their own statements. If Dr. Fauci did lie, as you guys are saying, why all the extreme histrionics, evasion, and dancing instead of presenting a single quote from his 80-year old lips that can be shown to be a lie.

 

[expos4ever]

If people can't speak freely because of that attitude, what good is it doing?

Who is not free to speak?

You are free to express your position on vaccines.

And I am equally free to express my position that your view is reckless and irresponsible.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Vaccines approved for emergency use are not experimental. The early vaccines for polio were managed similarly.

They are indeed labeled as "investigational".

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

If people are lying and brainwashing people. It should be banned. .Porn is none of your business .This is none our business and should be left to law enforcement.
People can be brained wash. And un-educated My nieces and nephew are dealing with the trauma from Conservatives Christian raising. You don't truly want that at all.

This entire post is hilarious. Especially: "People can be brained wash. And un-educated" (sic).

So....statements you don't like should be banned (since they are lying on all sides, all the time). BUT...porn, crime, etc....the actual harm perpetrated on others, is "none of our business".

Sometimes, even to those who tend to be articulate like me....speechlessness comes.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

This part I will have to disagree with. A person is smart. People are stupid.

There's a saying here that translates to about : "Stupidity is concentrated in a group."

Well, no one should be subjected to a trial by "a jury of our peers" then as the 6th Amendment requires. Yet somehow (not always, but mostly)...the jury almost always seems to get it right.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Well, as soon as you're in charge of making HR decisions for a large hospital you can put your feelings on the subject into action.

Oh I would. I operate on logic, not politics.

Alas, not my field of expertise. The corruption will continue until someone powerful enough to withstand the huge industries that perpetuate it decides to expose and stop it.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

But isn't that just the point? How would you respond to people when they ask if I've got a 98% chance of survival by catching the virus why should that motivate me into taking a vaccine which seems they're almost daily putting on new warning labels.

FDA adds warning of rare heart inflammation to Pfizer, Moderna vaccines (cnbc.com)

Heath Canada adds warning of rare, serious condition as potential vaccine side-effect - Canada News - Castanet.net

How can this seem fair that governments and companies can protect themselves legally by doing this for after all they did give a warning, but a warning for what! If you can't practically say no to taking it it comes across as yes we've now protected ourselves legally now hold out your arms! Does this seem in any way fair to you?

You misunderstand. Not talking about now. I'm talking about the early victims here of the virus, who showed up in hospitals to either be ejected and told to come back if it got worse, or intubated - without trying everything and anything possible.

 

[expos4ever]

Oh I would. I operate on logic, not politics.

Really? Logic?

Then perhaps you can explain the error of logic in the following. I have laid things out very systematically so that you can point to any errors in matters of fact or deduction.

1. Covid is a serious illness, especially for those who are in hospital.

2. Covid is extremely contagious.

3. There is a vaccine that reduces risk of transmission to others.

4. This vaccine is safe by any reasonable standard.

5. It is part of the job responsibility of health care workers to not needlessly expose patients to threats to patient health; therefore, it is a condition of employment that employees comply not needlessly expose patients to threats to patient health

6. In virtue of 1,2,3 unvaccinated health care workers do pose a risk to patients.

7. In virtue of 4, these health care workers can reduce the threat they pose by taking a measure that by any reasonable start is reasonable.

8. In virtue of 6,7, health care workers who refuse to be vaccinated do not meet the conditions of employment.

9. In virtue of 8, they should be dismissed.

Now then: where is the error in logic or fact?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

No. You presented questions and claimed they were legal. They were not phrased in legal terminology. They did not quote apposite law. They did not refer to legal judgements. In short, you did not present a legal question. You raised a valid layman's supposition that there might be a legal issue, then self-asserted you had asked a legal question, as if that made your point legitemate.

I specifcially addressed your claim, using the routinely accepted "assertions made without support do not require support when refuted".

Irrelevant. The time taken for a "typical vaccine" is conditioned by several factors:

1. The time to administer vaccines in a series of trials that progressively elevate the numbers and range of the test subjects. This is the most important determinant for the authenticity of the testing process.
2. How urgent the development requirement is.
3. How much money is available.
4. How many resources can be focused on its development.

Items 2 through 4 led to an unprecedented focus of money, expertise and all related resources. The stages of testing and the number of individuals involved were consistent with those for a "typical vaccine". Feel free to present data that contradicts this, but don't repeat the same trick of claiming I did not address your assertions.

Please refer to post 305.

I'm sorry if you are unfamilar with legal questions but I can't fix that. That is indeed the larger question facing our society, and the one with which legal minds are grappling now.

Please tell me you are familiar enough with emergency use authorization to understand that it CANNOT be granted if there is any drug currently in use that might treat the issue at hand. So...there could not be. Nothing would work. All conspiracy theories, along with the ridiculous lab leak theory.

EUA granted.

NOW, after the fact and millions of deaths and with approval process firmly in hand, they are studying the drugs that were initially suggested that might have saved the early millions.

From the American Journal of Therapeutics, June 17, 2021: "Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally."


If it were my grandma dying in the hospital, I would have wanted them to try Ivermectin, Hydroxycholoroquine or anything else that might save her early on. But no, it was inexplicably forbidden.

Well, except for this lady, whose family went to court for her after this politically motivated sequence of events:

"A 68-year-old woman with COVID-19, who has been in intensive care in an Illinois hospital for a month, started receiving the controversial drug ivermectin (Stromectol) this week after her family sued the hospital to have someone administer it, according to a report in the Chicago Tribune.
...

On Friday, DuPage County Judge James Orel ruled Fype should be allowed to get the treatment.

Three days later, according to the Daily Herald, the lawyer for the hospital, Joseph Monahan, argued the hospital could not find a hospital-affiliated doctor to administer the ivermectin.

The Herald reported the judge told the hospital to "get out of the way" and allow any board-certified doctor to administer the drug.

When Fype's doctor was unable to administer it, the legal team found another doctor, Alan Bain, DO, to do it. Monahan said Bain was granted credentials to work at the hospital so he could administer it Monday evening.

In a follow-up hearing on Tuesday, Monahan told Orel that the hospital asked 20 doctors and 19 other health care workers, including nurses and pharmacists, to administer the medication and they all declined, the Herald reported."

Per her daughter via tweet, she improved and is still recovering as of May 21. I would move heaven and earth to get my mom treated with anything that might help if she were hospitalized.