This is why conversation with you is frustrating. I asked you many times to define what you meant. You posted a bunch of things that didn't state what you meant, and some that could be seen to conflict with what you meant. You posted some that referred to a local church, which may or may not contain only those in the true church. I asserted this was not clear, and you said it was clear.
I provided possible definitions, and even asked you to write your own. You declined all that.
Then when I am ready to quit because I cannot understand your position, you state your position simply in a way you could have done all along.
So you appear to be saying that the sons of the kingdom are all of those who are saved by the Lord, in all times, whether in the visible church or not. All the saved, right?
Well this is where I respectfully disagree. As the last two posts (
post # 691 and
Post # 692 and elsewhere) clearly show I have understood the discussion from the beginning and what you are trying to claim here in this discussion.
I did state the same position I did in the post you are responding to much earlier on in this discussion. Perhaps you missed it. I have always stated that "
the children of the kingdom" in Matthew 13:38 and the tares represent the true believers and false believers in Gods' Church in the world.
I think I have also provided besides the scriptures, other external sources on the views of the early reformers and other commentaries outside of the SDA Church that were different to the ones
@BobRyan had provided later that also support the same view of these scriptures as the SDA Church that the parable of the wheat and the tares has application to true and false believers in the Church of the world.
All through time in both the old and new testament scriptures we see God has always had true believers (children of the kingdom) and false believers in the same Church. This is the message for me of Matthew 13 and outside of the parable the same message is also shown in the scriptures elsewhere
Matthew 8:11-12, [11] And I say to you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.[12],
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness (the tares or disobedient in the Church): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 7:21-23 [21], Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22],
Many will say to me in that day, (Harvest separation) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? [23],
And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Many more scriptures already provided elsewhere. May I ask what is your understanding of Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31? Do you think these scriptures might mean that a Wheat can become a tare? We must keep in mind that Matthew 13 is a parable here.
Anyhow in closing here, for me your claims here in relation to the SOP and COL and scripture are simply unbiblical and not true in my personal view of the scriptures. I do not feel for me that continuing this discussion at the moment is fruitful as I see from trying to follow the rest of the discussion while I have been away is simply repetition not adding anything new to this discussion that has not already been discussed. So for me for the time being let's agree to disagree. I may come back latter if you want to discuss something different.
Thank you for the discussion.
