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Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church orthodox

BobRyan

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I have talked to Bob on a number of issues, particularly the investigative judgment, I think even on other Adventist forums some time back.

Actually I think we have had this discussion in one form or another on CARM and on CF in years gone by - but I actually don't remember the details of what we said. So it has been good to catch up with you here on this thread and look more into what your views are.
 
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BobRyan

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That was just one of the few things that drove me away, in reality it makes no sense. Miller had to come up with something to cover his 1844 false prediction so he came up with investigative judgement and Mrs. White jumped on the band wagon.

Not only did Miller not come up with the Investigative Judgment - he never agreed to it.

Miller came up with the day for year application of the 2300 days of Dan 8 which ended in his view sometime in the 1843/1844 time frame. (Using the historicist model of protestant reformers)

There was no "Ellen White" at that time - because at that time she was a teenage "Ellen Harmon" who did agree to the 2300 year day-for-year timeline of Miller but was not founder or leader of anything.
 
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tall73

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Both illustrations by Christ - have an end point at the end of the world - with the wicked in one group and all the saints in another. "Christ's kingdom" has to be a reference to the church of Christ but according to Matt 13 there are tares in "Christ's kingdom" that need to be removed.

Tell me why Christ's kingdom has to be a reference to the church of Christ.
There are tares in the field, which is the world. There are good crops in the field, which is the world. The kingdom includes everything. It is the kingdom of heaven. He is Lord of all. You mention the end point. This is a frequent point in the kingdom discussion.

At the end of the age the sons of the kingdom inherit it, the sons of the wicked one's don't. He removes from His kingdom all that offends. At the end of the age earth is obedient, just as the heavens already are:

Matthew 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

You already mentioned some will be saved who never went to a church. They are still part of the kingdom. There will be many who are not in the church, but are lost. They are removed from the kingdom.

And in Matt 7 "did we not prophesy in our name" is said of those on the wide road. That term could only apply to someone in church -- yet at the end we have only the saved vs the lost - wide road vs narrow road for all mankind, the entire world as the full scope.

Of course, it includes those in the church, and those outside the church. The end has the scope of the world.

But she re-defined the field as the church in the world then focused on that the rest of the time.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, out of His kingdom.

Agreed!

Why would we "understand" this as meaning the tares were only in the church?

The "Church of Christ IN the World" means that tares can be taken out of the world.
The "sons of the Kingdom IN the world" means that tares can be taken out of the world.
"His kingdom" having tares and wheat in it has to include the Church of Christ in the term "His kingdom"
 
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BobRyan

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Tell me why Christ's kingdom has to be a reference to the church of Christ.

Ok at this point you are hitting the nail on the head -- we are getting to the real difference that you and I may have on that subject ... but I am not sure that the level of fine detail in that kind of parsing .. is going to carry a lot of interest for readers.

But she re-defined the field as the church in the world then focused on that the rest of the time.

And you agree that "sons of the kingdom in the world" and "tares in Christ's kingdom" is in fact the topic of Matt 13 "Wheat and tares" right?

I just don't see how this shows much of a gap in our differences once that is agreed upon.
 
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tall73

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Not only did Miller not come up with the Investigative Judgment - he never agreed to it.

Miller came up with the day for year application of the 2300 days of Dan 8 which ended in his view sometime in the 1843/1844 time frame. (Using the historicist model of protestant reformers)

There was no "Ellen White" at that time - because at that time she was a teenage "Ellen Harmon" who did agree to the 2300 year day-for-year timeline of Miller but was not founder or leader of anything.

You saved me some typing!

Yes, Miller for a time kept thinking that Christ would come soon and that he just had a slight miscalculation. Then later he decided to be ready "today" whenever that might be.

You can read about it here. It is rather long, but he goes through his perceptions looking back on the whole experience.

Full text of "William Miller. Mr. Miller's Apology and Defence (1845)."


Interestingly, while Ellen White held that all who rejected the messages of the Millerites were rejecting the first and second angel's messages and had a door shut on them, she made an exception for Miller.

If you wan the short version you can check this article:

Ellen G. White® Estate: Pathways of the Pioneers - William Miller
 
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tall73

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Ok at this point you are hitting the nail on the head -- we are getting to the real difference that you and I may have on that subject ... but I am not sure that the level of fine detail in that kind of parsing .. is going to carry a lot of interest for readers.

We will just have to see.

And you agree that "sons of the kingdom in the world" and "tares in Christ's kingdom" is in fact the topic of Matt 13 "Wheat and tares" right?

I wouldn't summarize it that way. Post your view and we will see.
 
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BobRyan

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Ok at this point you are hitting the nail on the head -- we are getting to the real difference that you and I may have on that subject ... but I am not sure that the level of fine detail in that kind of parsing .. is going to carry a lot of interest for readers.

And you agree that "sons of the kingdom in the world" and "tares in Christ's kingdom" is in fact the topic of Matt 13 "Wheat and tares" right?

I wouldn't summarize it that way. Post your view and we will see.

so looking at your selected example --

Matt 13:24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field?

And ends like this

Matt 13:38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom ...
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

My claim is that when we look at those verses we see

==========Part I.
The "sons of the kingdom in the world" and "tares in Christ's kingdom" are in fact statements made in Matt 13

The Matt 13 text puts "sons of the Kingdom" -- "in the world"
Matt 13:38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom ...

The book "Christ's Object Lessons" puts the "Church of Christ in the world"

=========Part II.

This Matt 13 text puts "tares in Christ's kingdom" - and says they will be removed at the second coming
Matt 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire.​

The book "Christ's Object Lessons" says there are "tares in the Church of Christ"

Given that we agree on that - THEN

- the only real difference is at the point where one would "understand that" "sons of the Kingdom in the world" (which is what Matt 13 says) - is the same as "the Church of Christ IN the World" which is what we find in that chapter in the book "Christ's Object Lessons".

both of those documents agree on the fact that wheat and tares are in "Christ's kingdom" / "Church of Christ" before the second coming.

- or else one might say "no I could never think that is the case given what I see in Matt 13"

===================================

So backing up a bit - you state at the outset - that this exercise shows how I look at scripture/bible study/ etc -- and I would agree that the basic comparison above between "sons of the Kingdom in the world" vs "the Church of Christ IN the World" - is a good example of a point where I just don't see the difference in those two statements.
 
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tall73

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- the only real difference is at the point where one would "understand that" "sons of the Kingdom in the world" is "the Church of Christ IN the World"

That is not where I thought you were going with that. But let's plug in the definitions and see what we get:

Bob's version:
The field is the world. the good seeds are the church of Christ in the world, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

Ellen White's version:
The field is the church of Christ in the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one

Jesus' version.

The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

I am going with Jesus' version.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That is not where I thought you were going with that. But let's plug in the definitions and see what we get:

Bob's version:
The field is the world. the good seeds are the church of Christ in the world, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

Ellen White's version:
The field is the church of Christ in the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one

Jesus' version.

The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

I am going with Jesus' version.

Hello Tall nice to see you,

Long time no see. Are you still keeping the Sabbath or has that stopped for now? Just wondering as last time I think we had a chat you were a Sabbath keeper right?

I just wanted to make a few comments on the above from the scriptures so I hope you do not mind me passing a comment or two, as I honestly do not see any difference in the scriptures to what Jesus said and the SOP comments from COL to be honest but let me show why.

Jesus says from Matthew 13:24-30; 37-43

Matthew 13:24-30 [24], Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man which sowed good seed in his field:[25], But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. [26], But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.[27], So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did not you sow good seed in your field? from where then has it tares? [28], He said to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Will you then that we go and gather them up? [29], But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them.[30], Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you

The interpretation is given here...

Matthew 13:37-43 [37], He answered and said to them, He that sows the good seed is the Son of man; [38], The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; [39], The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.[40], As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. [41], The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; [42], And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [43], Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears to hear, let him hear.

So let's do a recap here before going any further. What I think you have not picked up on here are these points from the scriptures...

1. Jesus is the one that sows the good seed (Word of God) - Matthew 13:37
2. He says that he sows the good seed in the field which represents the world - Matthew 13:38
3. The good seed (wheat) are the children of the kingdom - Matthew 13:38
4. The bad seed (tares or weeds) represent the children of the wicked one - Matthew 13:37
5. The enemy represents the devil who sowed the bad seed (tares or weeds) among the good seed (children of the kingdom) - Matthew 13:39
6. The harvest is the end of the world - Matthew 13:40
7. The separation of the wheat and the tares that are growing together side by side in the field of the world are separated from out of His Kingdom that is in the world - Matthew 13:41

So the scriptures can read like this...

Matthew 13:24-30 [24], Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man which sowed good seed in his field {Jesus plants the Word of God in the world}:[25], But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way . [26], But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also {the children of God and the children from the devil are growing together side by side in his kingdom which is in the world}.[27], So the servants {Angels who do the reaping of the Harvest at the second coming} of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did not you sow good seed in your field? from where then has it tares? [28], He said to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Will you then that we go and gather them up? [29], But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them.[30], Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you {The separation of the wheat and the tares that are growing together side by side in the field of the world are separated from out of His Kingdom that is in the world}

So if we read the scriptures here we can see from their context agrees with the SOP from COL that we are discussing the "Kingdom of God" that is in the world. The wheat and the tares here are the children of God growing together with the children of the devil that are separated at the second coming (Matthew 13:41).

COL.
"The field," Christ said, "is the world." But we must understand this as signifying the church of Christ in the world. The parable is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God, His work of salvation of men; and this work is accomplished through the church. True, the Holy Spirit has gone out into all the world; everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men; but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the garner of God.

Note: COL does not say that the field is not the world. It says that we must understand these scriptures as signifying the Church of Christ that is in the world. This agrees to the context of the scriptures as shown above where the scripture context state that the wheat (children of God) and the tares (children of the devil) grow together side by side and at the second coming that Children of the devil are separated out of Gods kingdom that is in the world.

I may not stay for much for this discussion as I see it as a lot of SOP taken from context to try and make it say things it is not saying and I think we have had these discussions before in the past. I am always as you know happy to discuss scripture and may share a few scriptures with some others here. I have also not followed the whole thread so please forgive me if some of these things I have listed here have already been discussed elsewhere.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi @Danthemailman , some interesting comments on Ephesians 6:1-2 and God's 10 commandments for your consideration.
Paul simply references "the first commandment with a promise" here and not the entire TEN.
HOW IS HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER THE FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH PROMISE?

Ephesians 6:1-2 [1] says Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2], Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise.

Now of course this is a reference to the fifth commandment of God's 10 commandments written in Exodus 20:12. The reason Paul states that it is "the first commandment" (v2) and not the fifth commandment is because the first four commandments are our duty of love to God and the second six are our duty of love to our fellow man.

Those well versed in the scriptures of the old covenant in the days of Jesus knew that both love to God and love to man was expressed in obedience to God's law and both love to God and love to our fellow man was simply a summary of how love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law. This is seen in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.

In the new covenant we see the Pharisees seeking to tempt Jesus asking the question in Luke 10:25-29 "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" (we will come back to those question as we will see it is answered two ways). The response from Jesus was "What is written in the law? how read you?" (note: What is written in the law) The Pharisee (someone specialized in the law of God) answers his own question by saying; "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself". (v27) From which Jesus answered; "You have answered right: this do, and you shall live" (v28).

Now please pay attention to a few things here. The question being asked was "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus asked what is written in the law? The response being "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself". This is taken from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 which is summing up the law and the prophets. Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40 shows this as well when he is asked what is the great commandment in the law and responds with You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself but notice what Jesus finishes with in v40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 just like the Pharisee did earlier when he asked Jesus what should he do to inherit eternal life and Jesus asked him "What is written in the law". According to the scriptures Love to God and love to man is summing up the Law and the Prophets! "

Lets look at one more final example here from the rich young ruler who asks the same question as the Pharisee earlier "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16) Now take note same question asked as the Pharisee earlier to Jesus not the different answer given but how this answer fits with both the answers given to the Pharisee earlier (or by the Pharisee) and the right young ruler. Jesus answers the question by saying; "Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments". The ruler asked Jesus which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. - Matthew 19:16-19.

So the exact same question was asked "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" but answered in different ways one way. The first answer was to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself" and the second answer was "if you will enter into life, keep the commandments".

Jesus combines both these answers in Matthew 22:36-40 where he says that the two greatest commandments are love to God and love to our fellow man and on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. This is because love to God and love to our fellow man is expressed through obedience to Gods' 10 commandments. The first four commandments are our duty of love to God while the second six are our duty of love to our fellow man which is why Jesus say On these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40). This means from our duty of love to our fellow man Honoring our father and mother is the first commandment in loving our neighbour as our self which is what Ephesians 6:1-2 is talking about.

Paul also show that love to our fellow man is also summing up the second six of God's 10 commandments in Romans 13:8-10 where he says Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love to God and our fellow man therefore is simply summing up God's 10 commandment which is how love to God and our fellow man is expressed. John says the same thing in 1 John 5:2-3, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The entire 10 is not listed in Romans 13 either.
James says in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. So your point that God's first four commandments of the 10 commandments are not written in Romans 13:8-10 is a mute point as Paul was summarizing Gods 10 commandments in regards to our duty of love to our fellow man. Are you seriously trying to argue we are free to worship other God's, make idols and bow down to them and worship them or use God's name in vain? As shown above Love to God and our fellow man is summing up the law and the prophets according to Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8:10
Nice sales pitch, yet I'm not alone by a long shot and the truth remains that the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3.

Here you go @Danthemailman perhaps you missed some as everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant...

GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS REPEATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

1 You shall have no other gods before Me. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
2 You shall make no idols (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)
3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)
4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today -Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days which are not God's 4th commandment which is a weekly memorial of creation) *Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
5 Honour your father and mother. (Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)
6 You shall not murder (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)
7 You shall not commit adultery. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)
8 You shall not steal. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)
9 You shall not bear false witness. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
10 You shall not covet your neighbors possessions. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

Need more scripture here linked and here linked

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Not all Bible scholars and the 10 commands of Sinai written in stone with all the rules and regulations and death penalties attached are old covenant.

Actually not really @Danthemailman as all of Gods’ 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant (scriptures support here linked). Many people make a mistake thinking that it is only the 10 commandments that were the old covenant, yet this is not biblical as can be shown in both the old covenant scriptures and the new covenant scripture. They do this to try and argue that God's 10 commandments they claim have been abolished in the new covenant despite the apparent contradictions of Jesus and all the Apostles teachings that God's 10 commandments are still a part of the new covenant teachings (e.g. Matthew 5:17-19; Mark 10:17-21; Matthew 22:36-40; Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:1-12; John 14:15; John 15:10; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16; 1 Corinthians 7:19; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 2:12-13; Romans 7:12; Galatians 3:22-25 - too many, more scriptures here) and everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament (scripture support here).

So having an interpretation that God's 10 commandments is all there was to the old covenant is in contradiction to what is written in the new covenant scriptures as shown in the new covenant scriptures above where everyone of God's commandments are repeated as a requirement for Christian living.

We agree that the old covenant (Mosaic covenant) included God's 10 commandments as shown in Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 yet according to the scriptures this was not all there was to the old covenant which also included the book of the covenant shown in EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

This was the other half of the old covenant which included all the laws for remission of sins, the Levitical Priesthood, animal sacrifices for sin offerings and the ceremonial laws of the earthly Sanctuary. As was shown through the scriptures posted in the previous section God's 10 commandments are still a part of the new covenant. It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins from the Mosaic book of the covenant that are now fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 9:1-12; Hebrews 10:1-17.

As shown through the scriptures both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic BOOK of the covenant were kept in the Ark of the covenant. God's 10 commandment were placed inside the Ark of the covenant underneath the mercy seat *Exodus 25:16-17; Deuteronomy 10:1-5 while the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 was placed in the side of the Ark *Deuteronomy 31:24-26. So the full story here is that both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic book of the law (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 28:61; 29:21; 30:10; 31:24-26; Josiah 1:8; 8:31-34; 23:6; 24:26; 2 Kings 14:6; 22:8-11; 23:24; 2 Chronicles 17:9; 25:4; 34:14-15; Nehemiah 8:1-8;18; 9:3; Galatians 3:10; Hebrews 9:19; Hebrews 10:7 etc).

So as shown from the scriptures the old covenant included both the 10 commandments and the Mosaic book of the law which included the shadow laws of remission of sins that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. Hebrews 10:1-17; Psalms 40:7, Then said I, See, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me Hebrews 10:7, Then said I, See, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God. It is the volume of the book that pointed to Jesus that is fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises not God's 10 commandments.

Hope this is helpful
 
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In Isaiah 66:23, we simply learn that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him, in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25) How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
@Danthemailman, Revelation 21:23-25 says And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there

Note this scripture says that the light of it is from God and no sun and moon is needed there for God is it’s light and it will always be opened. What it does not say is that there is no sun and no moon. It says that there is no needs for the Sun and moon for light as God is it’s light. The scriptures tell has in Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD.

So right away we can see here that God will be making a new Heavens and a new earth and they will remain there and from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another all flesh shall come to worship before God. Now also notice in Revelation 21:23-25 it does not say we will always be staying in the city of God it only says that in the city no light is needed because God is our light. So perhaps your trying to read into the the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and do not teach (eisiegesis).
Furthermore, if one insists on weekly sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then one also needs to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, sabbatarians don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot.
Why would it be a problem that for us to meet with God every new moon in the new heavens and new earth if God wants to meet with us there? It is true we are in the new covenant now and not the old and we do not gather together on new moons or the Feast days but this has nothing to do with Gods requirements for His people in the new heavens and new earth when God has put an end to all sin and sinners from the old earth and received those who have been faithful to God and His Word. Thanks for sharing your view. Hope you do not mind me having a different view from the scriptures then you do and I hope you can see that the scriptures shred with you are supportive of what we believe.

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the weekly sabbath day in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The old and new covenants do not mix.”

@Danthemailman, Isaiah 66:21 says and I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, said the LORD

It does not say that there will be Levitical Priests in Heaven. It says that God will take of those who enter heaven Priests and for Levites, that is God will take of His people and give them an office of Priests. This also agrees with the writing of Peter where he says speaking of God’s elect; But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light – 1 Peter 2:9. So your kind of reading into these scriptures what they do not say and do not teach here in my view (eisegesis).
More eisegesis on your part. These were not Christians having a weekly church service here but Jews and proselytes who Paul preached the gospel to. The Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship. The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The Gentiles that were in the synagogue along with the Jews were proselytes.

Actually you have your facts wrong here Dan but let me explain why. Gentiles that were interested in learning about the Word of God were allowed to enter into the synagogues to hear the Word of God without being circumcised. This is different to the Temple that was at Jerusalem where gentiles needed to be circumcised to enter the temple or they were restricted to the "court of the gentiles"

Uncircumcised gentiles (non proselytes) interested in learning about Gods Word in the synagogues were called "proselytes at the gate" or those "who feared God" (see Acts of the Apostles 10:2; Acts of the Apostles 10:22 and Acts of the Apostles 13:14-16), while full proselytes were gentiles that had converted to Judaism and were circumcised. There was no restrictions placed on anyone wanting to hear the Word of God in the synagogues in the days of Jesus and the Apostles if they wanted to learn about God and His Word.

Hope this is helpful
 
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More Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly sabbath day" under the law when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!
W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.
SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

WHAT IS GOD’S REST/MY REST/HIS REST OF HEBREWS 3 AND HEBREWS 4?

As shown earlier through the scriptures your claims here in this post are based on eisegesis (reading into the scriptures what they do not say or teach). There is nothing in Hebrews 3:7-19 to Hebrews 4:1-13 that says anywhere that supports your claims that these scriptures teach that Jesus is a Sabbath, the Sabbath is a full time rest, or that Hebrews 4:1-13 reveals the New Covenant spiritual reality of the physical rest of the Old Covenant Sabbath day for the people of God, which emphasis was on rest. Of course it is true however that no one enters into God's seventh day Sabbath rest if they do not believe and follow Gods' Word (the gospel rest) and continues in unbelief and sin, not believing and following God's Word. This is what the warnings are about as shown in Hebrews 3:12-13; 14; 17-19; Hebrew 4:1-2;6; 11.

WHAT IS GOD’S REST IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4? (exegesis)

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

KEY POINTS FROM THE SCRIPTURES OF HEBREWS 4:1-5 (exegesis)

NOTE: Context in Hebrews 4:1-5 is God's Rest from the seventh day Sabbath from the foundation of the world (v4-5) and those who enter Gods rest by and believing and following Gods Word [the gospel] who enter into God's Sabbath rest as God did on the seventh day of the week. The context here defining God’s rest/My rest/His rest is to God’s seventh day Sabbath rest created at the foundation of the world that those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do or do not enter into. The new testament writer of Hebrews is warning us that if we do not believe and follow God's Word (the gospel) and continue in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:10-13; 18-19) we will never enter into God's rest (His Rest/My Rest) which is defined as the "seventh day" Sabbath rest in Hebrews 4:1-5. There are two rests here. One is to the rest we enter into by believing and following Gods Word which is our rest and the rest we enter into by believing and following God’s Word to God’s rest which is the seventh day Sabbath. Hebrews 4:3-5 defines God's rest by saying [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest (our rest from or the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (God's rest): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the "seventh day" on this wise, And God did rest the "seventh day" from all his works. [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest ("seventh day").

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9 (exegesis)

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

According to the Greek and scripture contexts of Hebrews 3:7-19 and Hebrews 4:1-9, Hebrews 4:9 is in regards to God’s seventh day Sabbath of the 4th commandment which in the context of Hebrews 4:1-5 which defines God’s rest/My rest/His rest (Hebrews 3:11; 18-19; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 5; 10) as the “seventh day” from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4.

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Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Hebrews 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Lamsa Bible
Hebrews 4:9 It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

................

For your interest, the Greek word used here for Sabbath is Sabbatismos and means a Sabbath keeping or keeping of the Sabbath or how the Sabbath is kept by resting.

Hebrews 4, verse 9: “So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.” or in other translations "There remains therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God". In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ
(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

LIDDEL/SCOTT/JONES GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON - G4520
σαββατισμός
Σαββᾰτ-ισμός, ὁ, a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Heb 4:9, cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

STRONGS LEXICON
So ἄρα (ara) Conjunction Strong's Greek 686: Then, therefore, since. Probably from airo; a particle denoting an inference more or less decisive.
there remains ἀπολείπεται (apoleipetai) Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 620: From apo and leipo; to leave behind; by implication, to forsake. a Sabbath rest σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos) Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ () Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people.
of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός
σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

W. E. VINE, GREEK DICTIONARY

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. (Note the rest of Vines comments is not the Greek it is his opinion)

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

…………..

Hebrews 3:7-19 to Hebrews 4:1-11 is warning us that if we do not believe and follow God's Word (the gospel) and we continue in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:10-13; 18-19) we will never enter into God's rest (His Rest/My Rest) which is defined as the "seventh day" Sabbath rest in Hebrews 4:1-5. Hebrews 4:3-5 defines God's rest by saying [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest (our rest from or the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (God's rest): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the "seventh day" on this wise, And God did rest the "seventh day" from all his works. [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest ("seventh day"). There are two rests being described. One is our rest we receive through believing and following God's Word (the gospel) *Matthew 11:28-30; Hebrews 4:2-3 and God's rest *Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 5-6; 8-9; 10-11. Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH. Why? Because the true seventh day Sabbath rest is a sign of God's true people who God sanctifies to keep all the commandments of God through faith in God's Word *Exodus 31:13; Exodus 31:17; Ezekiel 20:12; Ezekiel 20:20; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 22:14.

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SUMMARY: God's rest is the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation. Our rest is that of believing and following Gods' Word. No one enters into God's rest (defined in Hebrews as the "seventh day Sabbath") unless they believe and follow Gods' Word (the gospel rest). Of course God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) are a part of God's Word (the gospel) that God's people who enter into Gods rest believe and follow in Gods' Word just like Jesus did and the Apostles and prophets in Gods' Word. Everything provided here are not my words but have been taken directly from the scriptures which are God's Words not mine (exegesis). The warnings here are very clear. Those who do not believe and follow God's Word in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin (breaking anyone of God's commandments - James 2:10-11) just like those in the wilderness do not enter into Gods' rest (seventh day Sabbath) and will be in danger of the judgement to come (Hebrews 10:26-31)

Hope this is helpful @Danthemailman.
 
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Paul did not say the 10 commandments under the law. The Greek word for "commandments" in Revelation 14:12 is {entole} which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction." The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John. According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath keeping, but for them to love one another: A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)

This is simply just not true at all @Danthemailman. Once again we cannot separate love and law as Jesus say “On these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40 and Paul shows that love is expressed through obedience to God’s law in Romans 13:8-10 as does John in 1 John 5:2-3.

Revelation 14:12 says Here is the patience of the Saints here are those who keep he commandments (entole) of God and the faith of Jesus.

It is a mistake on your part here Dan to think that entole has no application to God’s 10 commandments. The Greek meaning of ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) means a commandment or precept; injuction of an authoritative prescription

APPLICATION OF ENTOLE TO GOD’S 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Now according to your post above you say the Greek word used in 1 John 3:23 is entole and because it's a different word to nomos then it does not mean God's law (10 Commandments) because the Greek word entole is used the scripture means Jesus command to love and you apply this to Revelation 14:12 as well. Let’s see if this idea is correct that entole can only be applied to Gods command to love or not according to the application of entole in the new testament scriptures.

Matthew 22 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS

Jesus is actually quoting from the old Testament scriptures from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 here. Jesus is saying here that God’s law and Love cannot be separated in Matthew 22:36-40 as love is expressed through obedience to God’s law.

Now let's look at other scriptures in the new Testament Greek that use the same word entole.

Matthew 15.3-6 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment (entole) of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother (application God's 10 Commandments): . . But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, he shall be free, honors not his father or his mother. Thus have ye made the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) of God of none effect by your tradition.

Application of entole here is to God’s fifth commandment Exodus 20:12 of the 10 Commandments to Honor your father and mother.

Matthew 19.17-19 And he said unto him if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) He said unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Note once again to God's 10 commandments entole is being applied

Mark 7.9-10 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Romans 7:7-13 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet 8, But sin, taking occasion by the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785), worked out in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9, For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) came, sin revived, and I died. 10, And the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785), which was ordained to life, I found to be to death. 11, For sin, taking occasion by the commandment (entole), deceived me, and by it slew me. 12, Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) holy, and just, and good. 13, Was then that which is good made death to me? May it not be! But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) might become exceedingly sinful.

Note once again the application of entole in Romans 7 is to God's 10 commandments.

Romans 13:9 For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there is any other commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785), it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Note once again the application of entole in Romans 7 is to God's 10 commandments.

Ephesians 6:2 Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) with promise

Note once again the application of entole is to God's 10 commandments.

Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people.

2 Peter 2: 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) delivered to them.

Before Jesus.......

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 11:57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) , that, if any man knew where he were, he should show it, that they might take him.

………………

Here is one I saved last just for you

Luke 23:56. . . rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785)

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CONCLUSION: The Greek word application to commandment ἐντολή (entolḗ | G1785) depends on the context and subject matter to which it is applied. There are many examples as shown above where the Greek words use of entole is applied directly to God’s 10 commandments so to say Revelation 14:12 is not talking about Gods’ 10 commandments is simply unbiblical.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27). Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

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LoveGodsWord

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1 John 3:21 - Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

@Danthemailman, according to the scripture context that you have left out of 1 John 3:21 it is not pleasing in God’s eyes that we sin and break His commandments according to John in 1 John 2:1 which is the reason he is writing. Sin is defined early in 1 John 3:4 where it says “Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” It is not pleasing to God that we sin and the reason John is writing here is that we sin not in 1 John 2:1. In fact John goes on to say in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6 that we do not know God if we knowingly break his commandments and that sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10. Those who are born of God to love through faith do not practice sin according to 1 John 3:6-9. This is all context stated that leads into 1 John 3:23 in regards to love where love is also relevant as shown earlier in Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13;8-10 and James 2:10-11 Love is not separate from Gods’ law it is expressed through it. So to say we are now free to break any one of God’s 10 commandment and say we are expressing love by doing so is not biblical according to the scriptures as sin (breaking God’s law) is what those who do not know God do according to 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6-10. God’s people therefore love God and keep His commandments as shown in the scriptures provided in John 14:15; John 15:10: 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17: Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

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LoveGodsWord

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When God said, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" in Exodus 20. who was He addressing? Hint: Verse 2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. The Word of God makes it clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17) In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15).

For me @Danthemailman this argument does not really make much sense as the premise of your argument here is that Gods 10 commandments are only given to Israel therefore not a requirement for Christians in the new covenant when you have posted you already believe 9/10 commandment have already been repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living being the standard according to the scriptures of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness according to the scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

Yet according to God’s Word and the scriptures you have left out of your earlier posts we see everyone of God’ 10 commandments including Gods’ 4th commandment “seventh day Sabbath” (Exodus 20:8-11) are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living in Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:1-12; Matthew 24:20 (Jesus talking about after his death and resurrection at a future time when the apostles and disciples would be keeping the Sabbath); Mark 13:18; while the Apostles continued to follow the examples of keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment well after the death and resurrection of Jesus in Luke 23:55-56; Acts of the Apostles 17:2 (see also; (Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10).

So one would think if Jesus wanted God’s 4th commandment to be abolished Jesus would not be trying to teach people how to correctly keep the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12 and he would have taught the disciples while he was with them that the Sabbath will no longer be necessary yet none of this happened and the disciples and Apostles continued to keep the Sabbath following the example of Jesus according to the commandment while Jesus even warns them that in the future after His death and resurrection when they would continue to keep the Sabbath in Matthew 24:20 they should pray that their flight at the destruction of Jerusalem should not be on the Sabbath.

Now as to the claims that Gods’ 10 commandments were only ever given to ISRAEL. This is true however in the new covenant God’s Israel are no longer those in the flesh of the seed of Abraham these are no longer the children of God according to the scriptures. Gods’ ISRAEL are those who are born of the promise that are counted for the seed according to Romans 9:6-8. That is Gods’ ISRAEL are not those of the flesh but of the Spirit according to the promise through faith under Gods’ new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12.

God’s ISRAEL in the new covenant therefore are all those who believe and follow God’s Word. A Jew is now one inwardly and if we be Christs through faith then we are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise *Galatians 3:28-29. This is because according to the scriptures, he is not a Jew that is one outwardly but we are Jews inwardly because circumcision is not of the flesh but of the Spirit and not of the letter in Romans 3:28-29. So there is no more Jewish or gentile believers as we are all now one in Christ (Romans 10:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Ephesians 2:11-13).

According to God’s Word if we are not a part of God’s ISRAEL according to the new covenant scriptures we have no part in Gods’ new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believers are not grafted in (Romans 11:13-27) in place of Jewish unbelievers who are still in the flesh and not of the Spirit. Therefore God’s ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God’s Word in the new covenant which makes every Word of God including God’s 10 commandments and God’s “seventh day Sabbath” of the 4th commandment a requirement for Christian living as it is God’s Word and those who are of God (ISRAEL) believe and follow God’s Word through faith because they love God

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Some religious organizations (Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-Day Baptists, and certain others) claim that Christians must not worship on Sunday but on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. They claim that, at some unnamed time after the apostolic age, the Church “changed” the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
@Danthemailman, There is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath this is not biblical. According to Jesus God made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27 where on the “seventh day” of the creation week God rested from all his works of creation where he “blessed the seventh day” and set apart the “seventh day” as a holy day of rest for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses, no law, and no sin, no shadow laws (because there was no sin) when God created the Sabbath for all mankind. Jesus never said anywhere that he made the Sabbath for Jews and neither does scripture.
 
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