The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[Bro.T]

there is certainly a worldly celebration for Easter, Christmas, etc... but there is also a faith celebration. Celebration itself is not evil, there are many Jewish celebrations mentioned in the bible where I'm quite certain people looked forward to the festivities over the deeper meanings. The pagan focus of various holidays are long stripped of their meaning and if you have such disdain toward them I take you to refuse to use the names of the week as well that are all after pagan gods. Because the moment I say "thor's day" I must be implicitly bowing down to the god of thunder.

Enjoying the superficial aspects of life is not innately evil after all Christ is the Word of God incarnate. For Christ to be flesh means he experienced the superficials of the flesh. For example, Christ had to drink, he had to eat and defecate all very superficial and even arguably too demining for God to participate in, yet he did. To suggest that Jesus did not participate in various festivities and celebrations of daily life, be it special days of celebrations or the joys that you can experience day-to-day (on an emotional level too) is borderline docetic theology.

I'm not sure what exactly you are promoting. that we shouldn't have festivities during these days or that we shouldn't have any festivities at all because they are too corrupted from pagan creep? What about thanksgiving are we allowed to do that because it's not overtly faith focus? What about births, weddings or funerals? what parts of life are you barring from celebration because you think they are too worldly-focused? This focus risks estranging the gospel from others around you because you're too weird to approach or take seriously. You turn into that crazy neighbour who rants on about it being sinful to celebrate Christmas. Life is not about the superficial but when we reject the superficial from being able to enter the holy, or the holy being able to enter the superficial, we alienate the gospel from others distancing it from participating in daily life. Such a focus would be counter-gospel and counter incarnation.

Jesus says in John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. If you want do those things that's your choice, but the word of God speaks against it. Like Paul says in Colossians 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Like for instance, Pagan worship Easter, Sunday worship, Christmas, etc. These things have nothing to do with Christ, but people rejoice in them, and celebrate them, the tradition of men.

 

[prodromos]

How is that possible it was still dark.

The day begins at sundown. The first half of the day is dark.

 

[klutedavid]

I use to struggle with that part myself. But you have to keep in mind that Jesus was the Passover, at the day of Passover, and the feast of unleavened bread is the next High Holy Sabbath day. So he had to rise before sundown Saturday. Because the evening would bring in Sunday a High feast day. Remember the next day starts at evening. When Mary came it was still dark. For example Sundown today is around 7:00 p.m. and Morning time is around 6:30 a.m. or so. So that's about 11hrs Jesus been gone. Subtract a couple hrs or hour and it would be still dark, when Mary came.

So are you saying that Jesus did not rise on the first day of the week?

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week.

You are saying that Jesus rose on the seventh day?

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus says in John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. If you want do those things that's your choice, but the word of God speaks against it. Like Paul says in Colossians 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Like for instance, Pagan worship Easter, Sunday worship, Christmas, etc. These things have nothing to do with Christ, but people rejoice in them, and celebrate them, the tradition of men.

When Jesus remarked about worshiping in spirit and truth he started by removing the establishment of worship stating it can be done anywhere. If you reject the forum of worship being used we should stop gathering since that is a physical forum. Paul tells us. "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." So the idea of using a celebration to give God glory is perfectly inline with biblical teaching.

 

[prodromos]

I'm not sure what you saying here.

I'm simply demonstrating one (of many) major flaw in your argument. It seems that neither you nor Davy are able to provide a response.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not sure what you saying here. but all those things where done as it should be done. The time frame of thing that was done, was done for a reason.

So they deliberately disrespected the body of their Lord by waiting days before finally coming to the tomb to anoint the body?

Applying spices and ointments to the body of the dead as soon as possible was necessary because, and this is a little known fact, dead bodies start to decay and smell pretty bad.

The only reason the women waited to anoint the Lord's body was because the Sabbath was fast approaching, and work being forbidden on the Sabbath had to wait until after the Sabbath was over. And so they got up very early, before sunrise, on the first day of the week to go and honor the body as was supposed to be done.

Had they had been able to, they would have done so much sooner. It is specifically only because the Sabbath was approaching--at sunset Friday evening--that they had to postpone the funerary rites for after the Sabbath.

That is the point being made to you.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I am not wrong - don't appreciate you calling me wrong - so I'll just throw those words right back at you.

Well you are wrong. If you are not interested in learning so be it!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How do thing I come up with three days and three nights, because it's written by the prophet Daniel. His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week.

Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

Now I know you have to find a problem with this, because you couldn't believe out of Jesus own mouth in Matthew 12: 38-40. Even in St. John 20: 1-4 went Mary Magdalene came unto the sepulcher is was still dark, and Jesus had rose already. And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover or Wed. evening. The passing of the Passover brought in the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. You have to read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation to understand these things.

Chatzi is the Hebrew word used in Daniel...which means half. The weeks in Daniel mean weeks of years. Has nothing to do with this...

It CAN NOT be Wednesday...you keep ignoring scripture....the eyewitnesses on the rood to Emmaus prove your timeline wrong! Friday was Passover 14 Nisan....the Sabbath was 15 Nisan, the 1st of unleavened...Sunday was 16 Nisan, Yom HaBikkurim...

"Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I have studied over the past 30 years says the Hebrew Day begin at 6 p.m. everything by Charles Pope in 2014 titled How Did People Tell Time In Jesus Days.

No it doesn't! The next day starts just after sunset....not always at 6 pm...

 

[prodromos]

No it doesn't! The next day starts just after sunset....not always at 6 pm...

I stayed at the monastery of Philotheou on Mt Athos for two days before walking to the other side of the peninsula to stay the next day at the monastery of Simono Petra. It wasn't until I arrived at Simono Petra that I discovered they were in completely different time zones. Sunset, when the next day began, happened much earlier at Philotheou because the sun disappeared behind the ridge running the length of the peninsula. At Simono Petra, they look West across the gulf to the adjacent peninsula so the sun travels further before it disappears behind the horizon.
Obviously they don't use quite the same criteria as the Jews, since the sky still takes a while to darken after sunset at Philotheou.

 

[Bro.T]

Chatzi is the Hebrew word used in Daniel...which means half. The weeks in Daniel mean weeks of years. Has nothing to do with this...

It CAN NOT be Wednesday...you keep ignoring scripture....the eyewitnesses on the rood to Emmaus prove your timeline wrong! Friday was Passover 14 Nisan....the Sabbath was 15 Nisan, the 1st of unleavened...Sunday was 16 Nisan, Yom HaBikkurim...

"Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

At this point you keep ignoring scriptures and verses, especially right out the mouth of Jesus.

 

[prodromos]

At this point you keep ignoring scriptures and verses, especially right out the mouth of Jesus.

Right back at you!

 

[Bro.T]

So they deliberately disrespected the body of their Lord by waiting days before finally coming to the tomb to anoint the body?

Applying spices and ointments to the body of the dead as soon as possible was necessary because, and this is a little known fact, dead bodies start to decay and smell pretty bad.

The only reason the women waited to anoint the Lord's body was because the Sabbath was fast approaching, and work being forbidden on the Sabbath had to wait until after the Sabbath was over. And so they got up very early, before sunrise, on the first day of the week to go and honor the body as was supposed to be done.

Had they had been able to, they would have done so much sooner. It is specifically only because the Sabbath was approaching--at sunset Friday evening--that they had to postpone the funerary rites for after the Sabbath.

That is the point being made to you.

-CryptoLutheran

First Jesus had to be in the grave three days and three nights. Second, remember there were Roman guards there on each side of the rolling stone door, I believe. So they couldn't get to Jesus any way. An angel had to come and roll the stone door back so they can see Jesus was already gone. Being that this is Jesus the son of God of course his body is not going to decay, in three days and three nights.

 

[Bro.T]

When Jesus remarked about worshiping in spirit and truth he started by removing the establishment of worship stating it can be done anywhere. If you reject the forum of worship being used we should stop gathering since that is a physical forum. Paul tells us. "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." So the idea of using a celebration to give God glory is perfectly inline with biblical teaching.

Like I said before that's your choice to serve another God, that's not written in the Bible. If you want to celebrate something else other then was written, again that's your choice. Also Paul say in (1 Cor.10:20-22) (v.20) “and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils”. (v.21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (v.22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

 

[Bro.T]

Right back at you!

I haven't ignore anything, must be something you don't understand!

 

[Bro.T]

The day begins at sundown. The first half of the day is dark.

You have to keep in mind that Jesus was the Passover at the day of Passover, and the feast of unleavened bread is the next High Holy Sabbath day. So he had to rise before sundown Saturday. Because the evening would bring in Sunday a High feast day. The beginning of a new day. Remember the next day starts at evening. When Mary came it was still dark. For example Sundown today is around 7:00 p.m. and Morning time is around 6:30 a.m. or so. So that's about 11hrs Jesus been gone, before Saturday Sundown. Subtract a couple hrs or hour and it would be still dark, when Mary came.

 

[prodromos]

First Jesus had to be in the grave three days and three nights.

Jesus told His disciples repeatedly that He would rise "on the third day". That is not possible if He was buried for 3 days and 3 nights.

Second, remember there were Roman guards there on each side of the rolling stone door, I believe. So they couldn't get to Jesus any way.

The guards were still there when the women went to the tomb.

Being that this is Jesus the son of God of course his body is not going to decay, in three days and three nights.

Even if true, the women didn't know that.

 

[prodromos]

I haven't ignore anything

sure you have, but don't let facts get in the way of a good fantasy.

must be something you don't understand!

It's not like you could ever be wrong

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

At this point you keep ignoring scriptures and verses, especially right out the mouth of Jesus.

I'm not ignoring anything but you sure are!!!!!!! The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove your timeline wrong...and you keep ignoring it! You do know why that is in the scriptures?

 

[prodromos]

You have to keep in mind that Jesus was the Passover at the day of Passover, and the feast of unleavened bread is the next High Holy Sabbath day. So he had to rise before sundown Saturday. Because the evening would bring in Sunday a High feast day. The beginning of a new day. Remember the next day starts at evening. When Mary came it was still dark. For example Sundown today is around 7:00 p.m. and Morning time is around 6:30 a.m. or so. So that's about 11hrs Jesus been gone, before Saturday Sundown. Subtract a couple hrs or hour and it would be still dark, when Mary came.