Border Crisis

[Speedwell]

Remind me in the summer months during peak migration times that there's no crisis. Because this is just the beginning.

Who says that it is no crisis? It is a crisis. What it is not is a threat to our sovereignty or the purity of our precious bodily fluids.

 

[Desk trauma]

I suppose it is entirely their responsibility as well to deal with the social disruption caused by the drug trade.

Yes. Their country is their responsibly and should they tire of the disaster that is prohibition they can change their laws just as we can.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Who says that it is no crisis? It is a crisis. What it is not is a threat to our sovereignty or the purity of our precious bodily fluids.

@Ringo84

 

[Speedwell]

Yes. Their country is their responsibly and should they tire of the disaster that is prohibition they can change their laws just as we can.

And what would be our response if those countries legalized the supplying of drugs to the US?

 

[Landon Caeli]

There's no crisis unless impoverished migrants scare you.
Ringo

Rising homelessness and unemoloyment numbers bother me. Especially when we can't take care of our own poor.

...Do you realize how many people live below the poverty level in California alone? You should investigate what you're advocating more of.

 

[Desk trauma]

And what would be our response if those countries legalized the supplying of drugs to the US?

I don't know. To my knowledge they have not attempted it yet and it would be a bit difficult as none of the countries spewing the waves of asylum seekers share a boarder with us.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't know. To my knowledge they have not attempted it yet and it would be a bit difficult as none of the countries spewing the waves of asylum seekers share a boarder with us.

But the drug lords who dominate and disrupt those counties are in the business of supplying drugs to the US none the less.

 

[Desk trauma]

But the drug lords who dominate and disrupt those counties are in the business of supplying drugs to the US none the less.

Therefore they are not responsible for their own governance? Are we moving back to the white mans burden?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yes. Their country is their responsibly and should they tire of the disaster that is prohibition they can change their laws just as we can.

I've always disagreed with you on this, but if it means putting the cartels and gangs out of business somehow... It might actually be worth it, in a big-picture kind of way.

 

[Desk trauma]

I've always disagreed with you on this, but if it means putting the cartels and gangs out of business somehow... It might actually be worth it, in a big-picture kind of way.

Supporting the drug laws as they stand is supporting the drug cartels just as much as any currently using their product.

 

[wing2000]

We chose to create that particular mess with our prohibitionist nonsense.

Okay, but it's our mess to own. I don't think most Americans realize how much death and destruction their illegal drug habits have caused -- from Mexico through Central America.

If the expense is in the end irrelevant, why did your bring up an option being cheaper in your easier post?

It's not irrelevant. However, I don't see the point in discussing which option is more expensive.

The stability of central American countries is the responsibility of those countries, not us. They are running on the same hardware as the rest of us.

It is partially on the US (attracting labor, drugs and a history of military intervention....).

In this false dilemma, sure. In reality not so much. If we made illegal economic migration untenable, strictly enforcing the law so employers would no longer make use of illegal labor, and they have no motivation to come.

Agreed. For four decades, American employers (including one former President) have been exploiting labor from these countries. Over the last few years, however, violence has become another push factor. In the past, work age men and women made up the bulk of illegal immigrants. The surge in minors is a direct result of violence at home.

 

[Ringo84]

Rising homelessness and unemoloyment numbers bother me. Especially when we can't take care of our own poor.

...Do you realize how many people live below the poverty level in California alone? You should investigate what you're advocating more of.

OK, so let's provide some programs that provide housing for "our" homeless as well as helping migrants. Seems like we can do more than one thing at a time, if your concern for "taking care of our own poor" is genuine and not an excuse for keeping those people out of the country.
Ringo

 

[Landon Caeli]

OK, so let's provide some programs that provide housing for "our" homeless as well as helping migrants. Seems like we can do more than one thing at a time, if your concern for "taking care of our own poor" is genuine and not an excuse for keeping those people out of the country.
Ringo

Talk is cheap though, and when we have 130,000 unemployed people living on the streets, in my state alone, it's easy to promise we'll come up with solutons, but in reality, that's going to be very hard to do, while it's very easy to just simply allow more people in.

I'd be more inclined to invite more in if I saw our poverty levels on the mend, with an actual sustainable plan... But we don't have that, and until we do, I don't see bringing in 130,000 foreigners every month from now until the unforeseeable future.

 

[Ringo84]

Talk is cheap though, and when we have 130,000 unemployed people living on the streets, in my state alone, it's easy to promise we'll come up with solutons, but in reality, that's going to be very hard to do, while it's very easy to just simply allow more people in.

I'd be more inclined to invite more in if I saw our poverty levels on the mend, with an actual sustainable plan... But we don't have that, and until we do, I don't see bringing in 130,000 foreigners every month from now until the unforeseeable future.

Talk is cheap, which is why I encourage you to support programs to help the homeless instead of using them as an excuse for why we can't welcome migrants into this country. I don't necessarily think you're being disingenuous, but there are plenty of people who say "Buh buh buh what about our people?" and then suddenly demur when their bluff is called and someone says "OK, let's help military veterans, the homeless, the poor, the ill, etc".

There's always going to be an excuse, but that's not the fault of these people who are asking for our help. We should welcome them with open arms.
Ringo

 

[wing2000]

Who are the unaccompanied minors coming across the border?

Teenage boys make up the largest group. HHS statistics show that 70 percent of unaccompanied minors are male, and that about 75 percent are ages 15 to 17. Teenagers making the journey are particularly vulnerable to exploitation, abuse and forced recruitment by gangs, smugglers and predators.

And for some historical perspective (.....numbers are not at 2018 /19 levels yet but soon will be if the current trend continues).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/11/unaccompanied-minors-immigrants-border/?arc404=true

 

[Speedwell]

Talk is cheap though, and when we have 130,000 unemployed people living on the streets, in my state alone, it's easy to promise we'll come up with solutons, but in reality, that's going to be very hard to do, while it's very easy to just simply allow more people in.

But those granted asylum are not here permanently.

I'd be more inclined to invite more in if I saw our poverty levels on the mend, with an actual sustainable plan... But we don't have that, and until we do, I don't see bringing in 130,000 foreigners every month from now until the unforeseeable future.

How did you arrive at that figure?

 

[Landon Caeli]

How did you arrive at that figure?

I said 130,000 foreigners every month...

Forbes claims 100,000 migrants in February:
More Than 100,000 Migrants Encountered At Border In February

Wikipedia claims 618,000 legal immigrants a year (or 51,500 a month).
Immigration to the United States

100,000 + 51,000 = 151,000 foreigners every month... So my number was actually low.

 

[Desk trauma]

But those granted asylum are not here permanently.

On paper, in reality they are here indefinitely. The countries they left have been unstable for decades with no sign of a change of course on the horizon. Let's dispense with the charade that they will be short term residents.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Who are the unaccompanied minors coming across the border?

Teenage boys make up the largest group. HHS statistics show that 70 percent of unaccompanied minors are male, and that about 75 percent are ages 15 to 17. Teenagers making the journey are particularly vulnerable to exploitation, abuse and forced recruitment by gangs, smugglers and predators.

And for some historical perspective (.....numbers are not at 2018 /19 levels yet but soon will be if the current trend continues).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/11/unaccompanied-minors-immigrants-border/?arc404=true

View attachment 296237

With 9,500 minors crossing the border in one month, that equals 7,125 kids between the ages of 15 to 17 have left their parents and decided to go it alone in another country.

...These kids should all be returned to their parents!

We need a full-scale documentary, on this... Because we need to see and hear why the US is not contacting the local police from the towns these kids are from, and trying to return them to their parents.

 

[Speedwell]

On paper, in reality they are here indefinitely. The countries they left have been unstable for decades with no sign of a change of course on the horizon. Let's dispense with the charade that they will be short term residents.

It's not a charade. It is a technicality--people who are granted refugee status through having their asylum claim granted have to be here a year before they can even apply for a green card. The point being that even granting asylum--much less just allowing individuals to remain in the country while their asylum claims are being heard--does not automatically confer permanent resident status, not even de facto permanent resident status as conservatives claim.

I still can't see why asylum seekers--especially these children--are more to be reviled and prevented from entering than economic migrants who sneak in to work and are allowed, covertly, to stay as long as they want.