Jesus could do no deed of power there

[Clare73]

This makes sense. Without the Holy Spirit, faith is not possible. But isn't it odd that Jesus would be surprised by their lack of faith. Perhaps that's due to his human nature?

Perhaps amazed at how great it was, rather than at its existence. . .as in Luke 7:9.

 

[Clare73]

It could be, but I'll leave the rest of the contemplation on this issue to your theological expertise since, at this juncture, this is where I typically jump into the awaiting ocean of non-systematic existence.

I don't have the answers either way, but I look forward to seeing what other folks in this thread have to say on this topic.

Well, how did you fare from the discussion?

 

[Clare73]

duplicate

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, how did you fare from the discussion?

... no worse for the wear on that one, I suppose?

And I'm still an existentialist who has been informed that God's Sovereignty is what it is, despite what we might think of it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, how did you fare from the discussion?

How did you fare from that discussion?

 

[Halbhh]

I am curious how those who hold to a strong notion of divine sovereignty, i.e. God pre-determines all aspects of an individual, would explain the following situation:

"He left that place and came to his home town, and his disciples followed him. On the sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astounded. They said, ‘Where did this man get all this? What is this wisdom that has been given to him? What deeds of power are being done by his hands! Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him. Then Jesus said to them, ‘Prophets are not without honour, except in their home town, and among their own kin, and in their own house.’ And he could do no deed of power there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and cured them. And he was amazed at their unbelief. (Mark 6:1-6).

I would say a prima facie reading of the text indicates that Jesus could not heal many because of their lack of faith. These are people who knew Jesus well and simply could not believe he was anything except the hometown boy they always knew.

More to the point, the implication is that Jesus could not heal without some faith on the part of the one being healed. Why could he do only a few "deeds of power" there? Well, because of their unbelief. Is there another reading of this text that eliminates this implication? If not, how does one square this passage with a strong notion of divine sovereignty?

I think that in most possible instances if He had healed someone that did not have faith, it would not be for the best.

(for example, sometimes or even often, a person's suffering gives them a chance to come to themselves (Luke chapter 15) and remember God! To allay that suffering isn't always for the best, for everyone, but can be when a person takes a step of faith...then it becomes good. So when someone asks for prayer, then we see a step of faith.)

Also, we do know that He is teaching the disciples, and He says things in order that they would listen to Him and hear and learn.

 

[Hammster]

Hey PH! Excellent inquiry! I can't quite remember where I read it, but one commentator I came across said that this passage you've cited (and those like it) implied that those folks spoken of in the text didn't receive healing because they refused to come to Jesus for any healing.

In other words, because they lacked faith, they stood aloof and away and thus didn't get close. If this is the case, we could surmise that this 'lack of faith' was a form of skepticism with manifested aversion.

I’m just going to piggy-back this one.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I’m just going to piggy-back this one.

How so, Hammster?

 

[Hammster]

How so, Hammster?

In that I couldn’t have said it better.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In that I couldn’t have said it better.

Yeah, I think we're in agreement that there's nothing much more than can keep a person from receiving healing from Christ....than to run away from Him if and when He's literally standing right in front of that same person.

Seems kind of senseless, doesn't it?

 

[Hammster]

Yeah, I think we're in agreement that there's nothing much more than can keep a person from receiving healing from Christ....than to run away from Him if and when He's literally standing right in front of that same person.

Seems kind of senseless, doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

 

[Clare73]

How did you fare from that discussion?

A little the worse for wear, nothing a cup of coffee won't take care of.

PH did a good job, and is super capable.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A little the worse for wear, nothing a cup of coffee won't take care of.

PH did a good job, and is super capable.

Yes, you're exactly right about all of that! @public hermit always does a wonderful job of thinking, leading and facilitating a pertinent discussion. He has a gift.

 

[Saint Steven]

This makes sense. Without the Holy Spirit, faith is not possible. But isn't it odd that Jesus would be surprised by their lack of faith. Perhaps that's due to his human nature?

Perhaps "surprised" isn't the best word to describe his disappointment with the situation.

 

[public hermit]

Perhaps "surprised" isn't the best word to describe his disappointment with the situation.

Amazed?

 

[Saint Steven]

Amazed?

Yes; amazed, astonished, confounded...

Saint Steven said: ↑
Perhaps "surprised" isn't the best word to describe his disappointment with the situation.

 

[Rescued One]

The verses in the OP don't say God is incapable. The Lord does His will. If something isn't His will, He won't do it.

Proverbs 16:9
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.

Ezekiel 36:26
24“ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!

Who is sovereign? Is it Satan, man or God? God has a plan and He will make it happen.

 

[Saint Steven]

The verses in the OP don't say God is incapable. The Lord does His will. If something isn't His will, He won't do it.

Then why was Jesus unable to do in his own hometown what he had done elsewhere? Because he didn't want to? Is that what you are claiming?

 

[disciple Clint]

I am curious how those who hold to a strong notion of divine sovereignty, i.e. God pre-determines all aspects of an individual, would explain the following situation:

"He left that place and came to his home town, and his disciples followed him. On the sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astounded. They said, ‘Where did this man get all this? What is this wisdom that has been given to him? What deeds of power are being done by his hands! Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him. Then Jesus said to them, ‘Prophets are not without honour, except in their home town, and among their own kin, and in their own house.’ And he could do no deed of power there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and cured them. And he was amazed at their unbelief. (Mark 6:1-6).

I would say a prima facie reading of the text indicates that Jesus could not heal many because of their lack of faith. These are people who knew Jesus well and simply could not believe he was anything except the hometown boy they always knew.

More to the point, the implication is that Jesus could not heal without some faith on the part of the one being healed. Why could he do only a few "deeds of power" there? Well, because of their unbelief. Is there another reading of this text that eliminates this implication? If not, how does one square this passage with a strong notion of divine sovereignty?

"Jesus healed people when there was no evidence of faith at all. Martha did not believe that Jesus would raise her brother Lazarus from the dead (John 11:23–24, 39), but our Savior resurrected him anyway (vv. 40–44). The miracles of Jesus bore witness to His identity as the Son of God, but the people in Nazareth had rejected Him. Consequently, Jesus could give no further confirmation of His identity that they would accept." The Obstacle of Unbelief

 

[Saint Steven]

"Jesus healed people when there was no evidence of faith at all. Martha did not believe that Jesus would raise her brother Lazarus from the dead (John 11:23–24, 39), but our Savior resurrected him anyway (vv. 40–44). The miracles of Jesus bore witness to His identity as the Son of God, but the people in Nazareth had rejected Him. Consequently, Jesus could give no further confirmation of His identity that they would accept." The Obstacle of Unbelief

That's a good point. Although Martha was not the one being raised from the dead.

But I seem to remember others in the healing ministry of Jesus who did not believe, yet received healing. (the Pool of Bethesda) And others received healing because they did believe. The servant of the Centurion. (though it was the servant that was healed) The Canaanite woman was in the same boat, so to speak. Two gentiles of whom Jesus remarked had greater faith than anyone else in Israel.

So, the question remains. Why was Jesus unable to heal everyone in his own hometown?

Perhaps there's a difference between who God could heal and who God would heal. For the most part, healing did not come to Nazareth; even though healing came from there. (in the person of Jesus)