Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[pasifika]

I believe 1 Peter 1 and 2 are in the Bible and are true. No text says "call yourself holy".. I trust the Word of God.

There is an argument of the form "The Word of God is not good enough"



But I am sticking with the Word.

Hello Bob, don't want to interrupt your conversation with the other member...but just to share with you that 1Peter1,2 is about "chosen people " chosen by who?? By God...then the other question is, were the people born holy?? NO!..they have to be "made holy" because they aren't holy...Hebrews 1,2

Thanks

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob, don't want to interrupt your conversation with the other member...but just to share with you that 1Peter1,2 is about "chosen people " chosen by who?? By God...then the other question is, were the people born holy?? NO!..they have to be "made holy" because they aren't holy...Hebrews 1,2

Thanks

Hi Pasifika -

The New Birth - the New Heart etc - is what makes that happen.

Jesus supernaturally "draws all mankind" to him - John 12:32

The "Few" of Matt 7 respond and the "many" of Matt 7 do not

Rom 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 2
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[HIM]

I believe 1 Peter 1 and 2 are in the Bible and are true. No text says "call yourself holy".. I trust the Word of God.

There is an argument of the form "The Word of God is not good enough"



But I am sticking with the Word.

Happy Sabbath Bob!
With man this impossible, but with with God all things are possible. If it is not of Faith it is of sin.
God has given us Faith, His Word in our hearts and mouths. His Law placed in our minds and hearts. We are the the Body of Christ the Temple of God. Behold all things are new and of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If the commands were created, then that would mean they are not eternal.

Interesting side note I noticed when I hovered over the Isaiah 66:23 link. Isaiah speaks of "one new moon to the next".

But when you read Revelation, there is not going to be any night.

We know God created the "lights in the expanses"(the moon being one) in order for signs and seasons.

In eternity it does not seem this is needed any longer.

Do you believe people will be able to break God's commands in eternity?

Night is also referred to as evil and sin which will be none of that in Heaven or the New Earth. Thankfully.

God gives us free will and I do not think He will ever take that away. It’s seems really important to Him that we choose Him. We choose to obey. Otherwise, we would not live in a world full of sin. In Heaven the saints will choose to obey Him because of their love. I believe the lessons through Gods Word, the Holy Bible we should be preparing ourselves for Heaven. Jesus will not leave us orphans, He gives His Spirit to help us obey. John 14:15-17

Revelations 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks, I will examine them.

Indeed. . .and in Scripture we find no giving of the day of God's rest to mankind until the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 19:3-8) conditions (Exodus 20:11), so we must not, and cannot assume that it was given earlier.
Types, patterns, shadows are physical realities that point to spiritual realities to come.

Hebrews 4:1-13 reveals the New Covenant spiritual reality of the physical rest of the Old Covenant Sabbath day for the people of God, which emphasis was on rest (Exodus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:14), and about which God was most emphatic (Exodus 31:14-15, 35:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; Jeremiah 17:21-22, 27). In light of its NT eternal spiritual reality of salvation-rest in Christ, we can see why so much emphasis was placed by God on rest.

It is God's own full-time (v.3b) Sabbath-rest (Hebrews 4:10) we enter into in the NT full-time spiritual salvation-rest of Jesus Christ, where we rest from our work to save and rest in Jesus finished work which saves, and which these NT Hebrews were in danger of not entering by returning to their OT religion.
Jesus taught us how to keep all the Levitical laws which are no longer in force--sacrifices, feasts, days, years, etc., not just how to keep the Sabbath.
Yes, for all eternity, we will rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross. The spiritual Sabbath-rest of Hebrews 4:1-13 is eternal, as is the priesthood of Melchizedek, the removal of sin by the atoning sacrifice for those in Christ, the adoption as sons of God, the gift of the Holy Spirit, etc. are all eternal.
In relation to the physical rest of Ex 20, which the author here maintains, what does that even mean--labor to rest?
That text is not about the Sabbath-rest of Ex 20. It is about the NT spiritual Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ which is entered into only through belief.
That is faith. How is faith related to the physical rest of the Sabbath commanded by God in Ex 20? There is no connection in Heb 3 and 4 between believing God's word and the physical Sabbath rest of Ex 20.
Association of texts is not connection of texts.

The gospel preached to the OT Hebrews which they did not believe (Heb 4:2) was not the gospel of Mt 11, it was the gospel preached to Abraham (Galatians 3:8). So the association here is:
Mt 11 light burden-->gospel preached, not believed-->Sabbath physical rest. There is no connection in that association.
Again, association of texts is not connection of texts.

Faith is the issue here, and is not addressed in the explanation above. Hebrews 4:3 shows that the writer is using the example of Israel's refusal to go into Canaan--because of unbelief, causing God to shut out (Numbers 14:21-35) a whole generation of Israelites (Hebrews 4:3) from the Canaan rest from their enemies--as a warning not to refuse to go into NT salvation-rest because of unbelief, not to return to their OT religion.
The topic is our entering (v.1) into God's full-time rest (v.3b) of salvation without works. There is a spiritual rest remaining for the people of faith, in God's own full-time Sabbath-rest. Faith is not related to physical rest, it is related to God's full-time spiritual salvation-rest in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:9-11 showing that
Canaan rest was no longer available (Hebrews 4:3),
but there still remains a spiritual Sabbath-rest in God for those NT Hebrews, which was not a rest from physical works, but rest from spiritual works to earn salvation.
because God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY (Hebrews 4:6-7),
which is not rest in Canaan whose doors are closed (Hebrews 4:3),
but is the full-time Sabbath-rest of God, in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, where the believer rests full-time from his own spiritual works to save and rests in Christ's work which has saved.

I think I have to conclude that the author here
1) did not address Heb 4:1-13 in its context; i.e., failing to enter God's full-time Sabbath rest due to unbelief, and that
2) he regards what he sees as associations to be linking connections.

Association does not establish connection of texts, and is a much-flawed hermeneutic being used by some on these threads.

God’s 10 commandments are not the mosaic covenant, they are God’s eternal moral laws found in Exodus 20. God’s 4th commandment is carried over like the other 9 that is now written in our hearts and minds with the New Covenant. Hebrew 10:16.

God wrote and spoke His 10 commandments 34:28 so the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 is not something Christ gives us, it is something we are supposed to do every week. Keep His seventh day Sabbath Holy. The Bible tells us how to do that and Jesus as our example kept Sabbath is also referenced. You are confusing the gift God gives us with His rest when we have faith and obey all of His commandments, including the 4th.

Sabbath is meant to be a blessing for all.

God bless

 

[Freth]

God is love.

1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."​

If God is love, His character is love and He has chosen us in love.

John 17:24 "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."​

If God is love and God's character is love, His law is love.

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Matthew 22:35-40 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

If all the law and the prophets hang on the foundation of God's law of love, then that means the word of God is also the law of God, the law of love.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
​

Christians still need all of these things. The Bible is God's complete law, written out of love, for our benefit. It's our way back to God, through His instruction.

Jesus wants us to keep His commandments as a show of love, but also so that we receive His love in return.

John 14:21,24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him ... He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
​

If you are claiming that you love God and love others, while not keeping His commandments—is it truly loving God and loving others? Are you receiving His love in return? Is He manifesting Himself in you? Read that verse again.

It is by the commandments of God and the teachings of Jesus that we know how to love God and love others. Jesus taught from the law and the prophets, expanding on it, making it clear.

How is it that the Sabbath is now "rest in Jesus" if we will be observing the Sabbath in heaven? Wouldn't heaven be the ultimate rest in Jesus?

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.​

The answer:

• God doesn't change. Never has, never will.
  
• Jesus doesn't change. Never has, never will.
  
• God's love (character) doesn't change. Never has, never will.
  
• God's law (love, character, word) doesn't change. Never has, never will.

 

[Freth]

The greatest trick Satan ever pulled was convincing the world that God's law (including His Sabbath) doesn't exist.

 

[HIM]

Thanks. . .that was qadash,

Which is used in Gen2:3.
קָדַשׁ
qâdash
BDB Definition:
1) to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be set apart, be consecrated
1a2) to be hallowed
1a3) consecrated, tabooed
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to show oneself sacred or majestic
1b2) to be honoured, be treated as sacred
1b3) to be holy
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to set apart as sacred, consecrate, dedicate
1c2) to observe as holy, keep sacred
1c3) to honour as sacred, hallow
1c4) to consecrate
1d) (Pual)
1d1) to be consecrated
1d2) consecrated, dedicated
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to set apart, devote, consecrate
1e2) to regard or treat as sacred or hallow
1e3) to consecrate
1f) (Hithpael)
1f1) to keep oneself apart or separate
1f2) to cause Himself to be hallowed (of God)
1f3) to be observed as holy
1f4) to consecrate oneself
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root

Here are all the locations in which Qadash is translated sanctified. Please take note of the first entry.

sanctified, 45
Gen 2:3, Exo 19:14, Exo 29:43, Lev 8:10, Lev 8:15, Lev 8:30, Lev 10:3, Lev 27:15, Lev 27:19, Num 7:1 (2), Num 8:17, Num 20:13, 1Sa 7:1, 1Sa 21:5 (2), 1Ch 15:14, 2Ch 5:11, 2Ch 7:16, 2Ch 7:20, 2Ch 29:15, 2Ch 29:17, 2Ch 29:19, 2Ch 29:34, 2Ch 30:3, 2Ch 30:8, 2Ch 30:15, 2Ch 30:17, 2Ch 30:24, 2Ch 31:18, Neh 3:1 (2), Neh 12:47 (2), Job 1:5, Isa 5:16, Isa 13:3, Jer 1:5, Eze 20:41, Eze 28:22, Eze 28:25, Eze 36:23, Eze 38:16, Eze 39:27, Eze 48:11


Question. If something is set apart unto God, is it not Holy?

Acts 7:33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

Are you familiar with the Septuagint?

Did you know that in it Gen2:3 Qadash is translated to the following entry from Strong's in the Greek. With this being understood it is safe to say that the Hebrew scholars who translated LXX back before Jesus under stood qadash to mean hagiazo which means make holy. Did you know that Jesus and the Apostles quoted the LXX?

G37
ἁγιάζω
hagiazō
hag-ee-ad'-zo
From G40; to make holy, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:—hallow, be holy, sanctify.


G40
ἅγιος
hagios
hag'-ee-os
From ἅγος hagos (an awful thing) compare G53, [H2282]; sacred (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially consecrated):—(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

the word in Ge 2:3 is qadesh, which means set apart to himself.

You are mistaken.
קָדֵשׁ
qâdêsh
BDB Definition:
1) male temple prostitute
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H6942


קָדֵשׁ
qâdêsh
BDB Definition:
Kadesh = “holy”
1) a city in the extreme south of Judah
1a) same as ‘Kedesh’ and ‘Kadesh-barnea’
Part of Speech: noun proper locative
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: the same as H6945
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1990e

 

[Nathan@work]

The greatest trick Satan ever pulled was convincing the world that God's law (including His Sabbath) doesn't exist.

Actually, the greatest(worstest ) trick he did was convince man he could be wise about all that is good from all that is evil. Coincidentally it is the first one recorded which shouldn’t be a surprise.

The issue manifests itself when we think we can understand the true meaning - the good - of Gods commandments.

 

[Freth]

Actually, the greatest(worstest ) trick he did was convince man he could be wise about all that is good from all that is evil. Coincidentally it is the first one recorded which shouldn’t be a surprise.

The issue manifests itself when we think we can understand the true meaning - the good - of Gods commandments.

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Proverbs 28:7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father.

Ecclesiastes 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.

Psalms 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Psalms 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

1 Timothy 1:4-8 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully.​

 

[Nathan@work]

God’s commandments, all of them, are perfect. They perfectly keep us in His fold when we keep them.

His own are sheep, not goats. You know the difference between them?

There are a few, but the main difference is their diet - what they feed on. This main difference is directly related to how they behave - what they do.

Goats are notorious for not staying inside a fence - they disregard boundaries. They want to eat the things that are not inside the fence.

Sheep, not so much. They may wonder out of a fence that has been damaged, but their normal life is content inside of it.

Gods commandments are a perfect fence. They protect from all directions. His sheep are content to stay inside. When they eat up to the fence, they see it, and know they cannot go any further.

Goats - not so much. They are content until they decide what is on the other side is worth climbing over, under, or through the fence.

Problem is, these goats often have curious sheep following them. So when the goats mangle the fence because they think what’s on the other side is more gooder - the sheep often get out also.

The shepherd always comes around and finds those sheep, puts them back, and puts the fence back up for them.

Here is the point. The sheep ‘do’ what the fence ‘says’ when they stay inside. They don’t go up to the fence and say, you are requiring me to stay inside so I am going to stay right here beside you.

The commandments were given to keep us - not for us to examine and decide how to best obey them. We keep them when we allow them to keep us.

I don’t go walking down the street saying to myself “don’t murder that person”, or “don’t make an idol”, or “don’t lie”, the list goes on.

What I do find is that in my every day life, when I am grazing around, I may find myself up by the fence when I see a woman, or when I’m tempted to lie, or another sheep(or goat) comes up and head butts me.

I then see the fence and it tells me not to go to the other side. The Shepherd sees me over by the fence and calls me away from it back to Him.

This is how the perfect law works. Let it work. Don’t try to work it. We are not like God. We don’t know the good He does. He is perfect and will guide us in His way. Don’t be a goat.

 

[Nathan@work]

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Proverbs 28:7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father.

Ecclesiastes 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.

Psalms 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Psalms 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

1 Timothy 1:4-8 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully.​

Mark 10:18 (ESV)
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Are you good Freth?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mark 10:18 (ESV)
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Are you good Freth?

It appears Freth was quoting scripture, not making statements of opinions.

And if you keeping reading in Mark it says:

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

 

[Nathan@work]

It appears Freth was quoting scripture, not making statements of opinions.

And if you keeping reading in Mark it says:

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

It was just a question.

I didn’t want it to be a trick question, so I included that passage.

Never know what someone is thinking until you ask them.

 

[Clare73]

God’s 10 commandments are not the mosaic covenant,

They are. Check out Dt 4:12-13:

"Then LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets," which were kept in the
Ark of the Covenant (Numbers 10:33, 14:44; Dt 10:8, 31:9, 26; Josh 3:6, 8, 11, 14, 4:7, 9, 18, 6:6, 8, 8:33; Jdg 20:27; 1Sa 4:3, 4, 5; 1Kgs 3:15 etc.).

they God’s eternal moral laws found in Exodus 20. God’s 4th commandment is carried over like the other 9 that is now written in our hearts and minds with the New Covenant. Hebrew 10:16.

Insert:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jesus fulfills the Sabbath in Heb 3:7-4:13, where to be explained is why:
1) a letter to NT Hebrews on the Sabbath
2) the letter's full-time Sabbath-rest (4:3b-4), not weekly Sabbath-rest
3) references to failure to enter Canaan (3:7-11, 15-18, 4:1, 11)
4) references to disobedience (3:16, 18, 4:6, 11)
5) references to unbelief (3:12, 19, 4:2),
(references 3-5 having nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment).

The following discussion regards the fulfillment of the Sabbath in Heb 3:7-4:13.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

God wrote and spoke His 10 commandments 34:28 so the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 is not something Christ gives us, it is something we are supposed to do every week.

Agreed. . .Christ did not give us the Sabbath commandment, but Christ fulfills the full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest of God to NT believers in his full-time salvation rest from our work to save, and rest in Jesus' finished work which has saved. (Heb 4:8-11).

Keep His seventh day Sabbath Holy.

In Hebrews 4:1-13, the writer of Hebrews is not warning NT Hebrews about unbelief in the Sabbath-rest (Heb 4:1).
They're Hebrews!

So what is the warning of unbelief and failure to enter into God's full-time (Heb 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest about?
It's about their considering a return to their OT religion because of persecution by the Jews and threats by their families to disinherit them. The writer warns them that returning to their OT religion will be refusal to enter God's full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) NT Sabbath-rest because of unbelief, just as their ancestors did at Canaan when they refused to enter God's full-time OT Sabbath-rest from their enemies because of unbelief. And that NT full-time Sabbath-rest of God is salvation rest in Jesus Christ's finished work to save, and rest from our own work to save, entered only by belief (Hebrews 4:1, 6, 11).

The Bible tells us how to do that

As well as warns us what not to do in failing to enter God's full-time Sabbath-rest in the NT through belief in the salvation-rest of Jesus Christ from our own work to save, and rest in his finished work which saves.

and Jesus as our example

He is more than just example, he is the NT fulfillment of God's full-time Sabbath rest from his works, in Jesus' full-time salvation rest from our own works to save.

You are confusing the gift God gives us with His rest

Actually, the writer of Hebrews is clarifying the real meaning of the NT fulfillment of the full-time Sabbath-rest gift God gives us in the NT full-time salvation rest in Jesus Christ rather than working for one's salvation, which NT full-time Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ those NT Hebrews were in danger of failing to enter by considering a return to their OT religion.

when we have faith and obey all of His commandments, including the 4th.
The Bible tells us how to do that and Jesus as our example kept Sabbath is also referenced. You are confusing the gift God gives us with His rest when we have faith and obey all of His commandments, including the 4th.
Sabbath is meant to be a blessing for all.

And indeed it is. . .in the NT fulfillment of God's full-time Sabbath rest in the full-time salvation-rest of Jesus Christ, from our own works to save, and in his finished work which saved us.

Isaiah 66:22-23 - "As the new heavens and earth that I make will endure before me. . .From one New Moon to another, from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship."

"From one New Moon to another, from Sabbath to Sabbath". . .is without interruption--full-time, as in Jesus' fulfillment of God's own full-time (Heb 4:3b-4) Sabbath-rest, into which we enter in his salvation-rest from our work to save and in his finished work which has saved (Heb 3:7-4:11).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Chief refutation to my presentation above is presented and addressed in
post #676, Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Complete exegesis of Heb 3:7-4:13 is found in
post #1259, Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

 

[Nathan@work]

Check out

Dt 4:12-13: - "Then LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets," which were kept in the
Ark of the Covenant (Numbers 10:33, 14:44; Dt 10:8, 31:9, 26; Josh 3:6, 8, 11, 14, 4:7, 9, 18, 6:6, 8, 8:33; Jdg 20:27; 1Sa 4:3, 4, 5; 1Kgs 3:15 etc.).
Agreed. . .Christ did not give us the Sabbath commandment, but Christ fulfills the full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest of God to NT believers in his full-time salvation rest from our work to save, and rest in Jesus' finished work which has saved. (Heb 4:8-11).

In Hebrews 4:1-13, the writer of Hebrews is not warning NT Hebrews about unbelief in the Sabbath-rest (Heb 4:1).
They're Hebrews!

You're not taking into account all the references to failure to enter Canaan (3:7-11, 15-18, 4:1, 11), to disobedience (3:16, 18, 4:6, 11) and to unbelief (3:12, 19, 4:2), which have nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. Your explanation of Heb 4:1-13 must be in the light of these.

So what is the warning of unbelief and failure to enter into God's full-time (Heb 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest about?
It's about their considering a return to their OT religion because of persecution by the Jews and threats by their families to disinherit them. The writer warns them they will be doing what their ancestors did at Canaan in their refusing to enter God's full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) NT Sabbath rest because of unbelief, as Canaan was the OT full-time rest from their enemies which they failed to enter because of unbelief. And that NT full-time Sabbath-rest of God is salvation rest in Jesus Christ's finished work to save, and rest from our own work to save, entered only by belief (Hebrews 4:1, 6, 11).
As well as warns us what not to do in failing to enter God's full-time Sabbath-rest in the NT through belief in the salvation-rest of Jesus Christ from our own work to save, and rest in his finished work which saves.
He is more than just example, he is the NT fulfillment of God's full-time Sabbath rest from his works, in Jesus' full-time salvation rest from our own works to save.
Actually, NT faith is accepting the gift God's gives in the NT full-time salvation rest in Jesus Christ, rather than working for one's salvation, which those NT Hebrews were in danger of losing in considering a return to their OT religion.
And indeed it is in the NT fulfillment God's full-time Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ's full-time salvation rest from our own works to save, and rest in his finished work which saved us.

Sometimes I ask myself the same question Paul asked the Galatians.

How many people have come to Faith, only to then start to look at the law for perfection.

Don’t get me wrong, I would never put someone down over observing the sabbath any more than I would if they decided not to kill me.

My concern is when people have their focus on it rather than the Spirit. Only they can know who they are following.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

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Dt 4:12-13: - "Then LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets," which were kept in the
Ark of the Covenant (Numbers 10:33, 14:44; Dt 10:8, 31:9, 26; Josh 3:6, 8, 11, 14, 4:7, 9, 18, 6:6, 8, 8:33; Jdg 20:27; 1Sa 4:3, 4, 5; 1Kgs 3:15 etc.).
Agreed. . .Christ did not give us the Sabbath commandment, but Christ fulfills the full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest of God to NT believers in his full-time salvation rest from our work to save, and rest in Jesus' finished work which has saved. (Heb 4:8-11).

In Hebrews 4:1-13, the writer of Hebrews is not warning NT Hebrews about unbelief in the Sabbath-rest (Heb 4:1).
They're Hebrews!

You're not taking into account all the references to failure to enter Canaan (3:7-11, 15-18, 4:1, 11), to disobedience (3:16, 18, 4:6, 11) and to unbelief (3:12, 19, 4:2), which have nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. Your explanation of Heb 4:1-13 must be in the light of these.

So what is the warning of unbelief and failure to enter into God's full-time (Heb 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest about?
It's about their considering a return to their OT religion because of persecution by the Jews and threats by their families to disinherit them. The writer warns them they will be doing what their ancestors did at Canaan, refusing to enter God's full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) Sabbath rest because of unbelief, as Canaan was full-time rest from their enemies which they failed to enter because of unbelief. And that full-time Sabbath-rest of God is salvation rest in Jesus Christ's finished work to save, and rest from our own work to save, entered only by belief (Hebrews 4:1, 6, 11).
As well as warns us what not to do in failing to enter God's full-time Sabbath-rest in the NT through belief in the salvation-rest of Jesus Christ from our own work to save, and rest in his finished work which saves.
He is more than just example, he is the NT fulfillment of God's full-time Sabbath rest from his works, in Jesus' full-time salvation rest from our own works to save.
Actually, NT faith is accepting, not refusing, the gift God's gives of full-time salvation rest in Jesus Christ, rather than working for one's salvation, which those NT Hebrews were in danger of doing in considering a return to their OT religion.
And indeed it is in its NT fulfillment in Jesus Christ's full-time salvation rest from our own works to save, and rest in his finished work which saved us.

'Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets , you’re saying in Jesus fulfilling the Sabbath (mind you Jesus was referring to all commandments not just the fourth) means to destroy the law. The Sabbath is a commandment, which it seems you keep choosing to disregard. In your definition of fulfill means destroy, no longer required, which has Jesus contradicting Himself and that is not the case. Which is why Jesus makes certain we understand:

'Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law' (Matthew 5:18). Heaven and earth still remain;

We can know from Jesus' own lips that the law was not and has not been abolished.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

God changes not which is why we will be doing (worshipping Him) forever in Heaven Isaiah 66:23

One of the last verses in the Bible:

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
(Commandment doers)

God asks us to Hallow His Sabbath, that is a command, not something Christ gives us. Sabbath is a sign between man and God. Ezekiel 20:20 Keeping it Holy. Christ rest is different and its received not by breaking His commandments.

If you don’t think you are required to keep God’s Sabbath Holy, that is between you and God. There is a lot at stake to disobeying God’s commandments so I would want to be 100%. God bless

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sometimes I ask myself the same question Paul asked the Galatians.

How many people have come to Faith, only to then start to look at the law for perfection.

Don’t get me wrong, I would never put someone down over observing the sabbath any more than I would if they decided not to kill me.

My concern is when people have their focus on it rather than the Spirit. Only they can know who they are following.

Maybe I’m not following. God asks us to keep His seventh day Holy. That is a day to be focused on God so how is that not focusing on His Spirit when God is asking for our time. Time spending with Him?

 

[Clare73]

The greatest trick Satan ever pulled was convincing the world that God's law (including His Sabbath) doesn't exist.

Have never heard that it doesn't exist.

Have read in the God-breathed Holy Scriptures where it is fulfilled in the salvation-rest of Jesus Christ.

 

[Nathan@work]

Maybe I’m not following. God asks us to keep His seventh day Holy. That is a day to be focused on God so how is that not focusing on His Spirit when God is asking for our time. Time spending with Him?

I never said it wasn’t.

I think it’s great to spend time with God. In fact, it would do us no harm to be focused on Him every single moment of every single day.

My comment was toward the people who come to Faith in Christ - having not focused on the 10 commandments but rather the Gospel - and then find themselves years later focused on the commandment, not the Gospel.

I was one. Thankfully He came and searched for me when I wondered out.

The rest we have in Christ is complete. It’s not in addition to anything.

That rest in Christ fulfills the law - all of it - perfectly. Some think there is more to be done - truth is it’s all been done.

Romans 8:3-4 (ESV) For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.