Is condemning the guilty for what they have done somehow not “righteous”?
If God condemns all of the guilty for their guilt, where is the partiality?
John 3:16-18 explains that some are not judged and why. It also explains that the rest stand already judged and why (with John 3:19-20 describing the judgement).
Thanks for listing those scriptures but it wasn't necessary as I already know those which seem to support the Arminian view.In my view, it's obvious from reading the Bible that Calvinism is clearly not true.
For there are so many problems and inconsistencies in Calvinism it's not even funny.
It's like flat earthers who hold to flat earth because they have 75 flat earth bible verses.
Yet, everyone knows that the earth is round.
For example:
Why did Jesus preach ‘except you repent, you shall all likewise perish’ when the non-elect can’t repent and the elect can’t perish? (See: Luke 13:5).
How can the Lord hold the non-elect accountable for ‘not believing’ and condemn them for it, when He purposely did not give them the faith to enable them to believe to begin with?
If Jesus had previously made atonement for the sins of an elect individual, do you believe they are lost during the period of time prior to their being saved?
Calvinism would be like creating a robot whereby you left it to it's own programming to kill people, and then you later put that robot on trial for murder. It would be illogical to judge the robot for killing if the robot had no other choice outside of it's programming to not kill. So a God who judges the wicked for something that they had no control over when God could have easily changed it for them places the blame of salvation on God and not the sinner. Why would God want to see them perish if He had the sole power to save them?
Here is another example: Imagine if you, your family, and a bunch of others are lost at sea, and a coast guard comes. However, imagine if you will that the coast guard saves everyone else out of the water, but he does not save you and your family. You ask him why he is not saving all of you, and he says... "No reason." As he drives away into the distance, would you not think it was unfair? Would you not think the coast guard was being mean, cold, and cruel? You sure would, unless you felt like you deserved to be treated unfairly or something.
Why would God punish the wicked at a Judgment if it was God who placed them there? It makes no sense. That would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room (like a football) because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem (When the dog owner knows it has such a problem). The poor animal has no control over it's pooping function, and it is forced to release it's poop all over the carpet uncontrollably. Yet, the master of the animal does not care and he is going to punish the animal for something it has no control over. The dog owner is heartless. This is the view of God that I must believe in if Unconditional Election is true. But it is illogical. It is unbiblical. For my Bible says, "God is love." (1 John 4:8). My Bible says, "For God so loved the world..." (John 3:16).
2 Peter 2:1 says,
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”
It says here that there are false prophets and teachers who deny the Lord WHO BOUGHT THEM. How can the Lord buy false prophets and teachers if He only died for the elect? It makes no sense.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 says,
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
It says that those who perish do so because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH that they might be saved. It does not say they perish because God did not elect them. It also says that they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. In Calvinism, there is no such thing as MIGHT be saved.
1 John 2:2 says,
“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world”
Jesus is not only the atoning sacrifice for us believers, but he is also the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Calvinism does not believe that.
Free Will in the Bible Concerning God:
#1. Joshua 24:15 KJV -
"Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve"
#2. Matthew 11:28 KJV -
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
#3. John 7:17 KJV -
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God."
#4. John 7:37 KJV -
"If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."
#5. Acts 2:38 KJV -
"Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized"
#6. Acts 3:19 KJV -
"Repent therefore and be converted"
#7. Acts 16:31 KJV -
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"
#8. Acts 17:30 KJV -
"but now commands all men everywhere to repent"
#9. Revelation 22:17 KJV -
"Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely."
#10. “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
#11. Revelation 22:17 KJ2
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."
#12. Luke 13:34 NLT -
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.
Jonah chapter 3 is another big one that refutes Calvinism.
In this chapter we read about how Jonah had told the Ninevites that they would be overthrown in 40 days. But they cried out to God and forsaken their evil ways after hearing Jonah preach. When God noticed that they had forsaken their wickedness, that is when God turned back in bringing Judgment or wrath upon them. So the Ninevites were not saved because they were the Elect, but they were saved and escaped judgment because THEY changed the situation whereby God had shown mercy to them.
Thanks for listing those scriptures but it wasn't necessary as I already know those which seem to support the Arminian view.
The problem remains those 120 or so which support Calvinism, I notice they remain ignored.
I don't think a Christian should ignore God's word, I believe we need to embrace the whole counsel of God and not just cherry pick the verses we like and ignore those which expose our theology as flawed.
It all depends on what you want to make the scriptures to say, since there are countless ways to interpret scripture. This is why we have so many Christian denominations, all claiming to poses the correct interpretation while they all oppose each other.The question really should be:
Do those other proof texts that Calvinism uses to support Reformed Theology actually support what they say when read in context, and without assuming one's opinions onto the text?
My answer to the question would be:
When reviewing each Calvinist Proof Text in the context of Holy Scripture, we find that the Proof Texts do not support what the Calvinist assumes onto the Texts they quote.
Blessings
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
You said:For there is a difference between
No matter how you interpret the scripture and jump, here and there, in selecting verses. You are always saved by grace and that is the end of the matter.
You said:Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.
Is that the only scripture you know regarding the Holy Spirit helping us?
Bible Highlighter said:Hebrews 5:32 says, “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”
Is that the only scripture you know regarding the Holy Spirit helping us?
Justice requires that God give everyone his due.Did the person really choose hell since everyone is dead in sin, and so - according to Calvinism - cannot choose to believe?
Since God knows that no one can believe - according the Calvinism - then God must instead show partiality, electing some to give them faith through regeneration.
God is an impartial and righteous judge, showing no favoritism
However, Scripture makes clear that God is a righteous and impartial judge showing mercy to all.
There are many Scriptures teaching this reality (Deuteronomy 10:17; 2 Chronicles 19:7; Acts 10:34-35; Romans 2:5-13; Romans 10:10-14; Romans 11:30-32; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 3:23-25; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9; James 2:9; Hosea 4:6).
If God is a righteous and impartial Judge, as Scripture teaches, how is it you feel God can show partiality in judgment - favoring some by giving them faith through regeneration, and condemning the rest without any chance at all?
Where does Scripture teach the regeneration precedes faith? Don't quote a Passage and assume. Anyone can do that. Quote where Scripture actually teaches that.
Does God invite only some to the Wedding Feast (Matthew 22:1-14), or does God send out His servants to gather all that would come?
Calvinists must alter and reinterpret every one of the following Passages to make it say that God shows partiality. But that is not what these verses actually state.
Romans 11:32 (WEB)
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.
Titus 2:11 (WEB) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men
Isaiah 53:6 (WEB) 6 All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 John 2:2 (WEB) 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
John 1:29 (WEB) 29 The next day, he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 4:42 (WEB) 42 They said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of your speaking; for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”
2 Corinthians 5:19 (WEB)
19 … God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.
1 Timothy 2:6 (WEB) 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own times
1 Timothy 4:10 (WEB) 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
Hebrews 2:9 (WEB) 9 But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.
Although God has paid the ransom for all people, only those who believe after hearing the Gospel appropriate that ransom to themselves.
Foreknowledge or foreknew means to love beforehand or to have known beforehand. Foreknow does not mean God knowingly causes.
For God to know something is not equal to God causing something.
If a sovereign God chooses to save those who would believe in His Son at the hearing of the Gospel, which is taught in throughout the NT, who are we to say that God is not sovereign for doing so?
Yes, because Romans 8:1-4; Romans 8:12-13; Galatians 5:13-25; and Galatians 6:7-9 shows that each person who believes in Jesus must continue to demonstrate his faith by living, walking and reaping to the Spirit to be saved. Not everyone will remain faithful, and many will fall away. But the Scriptures do not teach that, if believer falls away, means they were never saved to begin with.
In contrast, you are saying those God elected to save are guaranteed to be saved. That is why I quote those Passages.
John 3:18 (NIV) 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
In John 3:18, in the context of John 3:14-18, we see that, unlike what Calvinism teaches, each person has a choice to either believe and be saved, or not to believe and remain condemned. A sovereign God judges each person according to how he responds to his grace.
Blessings
Thanks for listing those scriptures but it wasn't necessary as I already know those which seem to support the Arminian view.
The problem remains those 120 or so which support Calvinism, I notice they remain ignored.
You said:I don't think a Christian should ignore God's word, I believe we need to embrace the whole counsel of God and not just cherry pick the verses we like and ignore those which expose our theology as flawed.
You ask questions that the Bible does not really address. That would be like saying, “what kind of color clothing was Peter wearing when he talked with the apostle Paul in Galatians 2:11-21?
The Bible does not really say.
While it is not an answer to your question directly (because it would be like asking the question like the one above), I am going to mention the importance of the Holy Spirit and obedience (Which will help to clear up your misunderstanding on how things work):
I posted a verse (Acts of the Apostles 5:32) to help you understand the Holy Spirit and obedience. What do you think Acts of the Apostles 5:32 even means? You run away from a verse and start asking questions that the Bible does not really address. You said before that you believe that you were saved while being prodigal.
No I did not. I already posted what I said which was that I doubted my salvation. I also said I didn't know what kind state I was in. You keep harping on something that is not accurate to what I actually said. And then on top of that you keep rubbing my face in it. If you ever do this again I'm going have to report it as a personal attack, so please stop. Thank you.
Members should be able to post their testimony without it being held against them.
Paul taught about salvation
Paul taught about living in this life.
When you do not distinguish between the two you negate what he clearly taught about salvation:
Ephesians 2:8–10 (NIV84)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
The good things done are distinct from salvation.
There's one camp that teaches hyper-grace. There's another camp that tries to battle it by teaching hyper-works. They're both spearheaded by the enemy in my opinion.
Jesus talked about spewing those who were lukewarm out of his mouth. He also talked about how we cannot serve two masters, too.
We cannot serve both God and serious sins that the Bible clearly condemns with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation. Believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (See: Proverbs 28:13).
I believe it only takes one sin for spiritual death to happen. It happened to Adam. He just committed one sin, and look at the mess all of humanity is in now? God said Adam would die that day he would eat of the tree (Genesis 2:17). But Adam did not drop dead physically that day. Adam died spiritually. Think. The serpent wanted Eve to eat of the wrong tree. His lie was that she was not going to die if she disobeyed God (See: Genesis 3). This same lie is being pushed today by the devil.
Do you ever post anything positive like God's love and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding? Or is that too soft?
But if I just preached only His love and I did not warn against sin in how it can destroy a person's soul, then a person can be deceived into thinking the unrighteous will inherit the Kingdom of God. It would be unloving to not give people the whole counsel of God's Word. For people could misinterpret my love message as a license to turn God's grace into a license to sin if I did not tell them to repent and to live holy according to God's Spirit after being saved by God's grace.
It was a rhetorical question, Jason. I already figured the answer was no. I sure hope people don't read all that love stuff in the Bible and get mislead by it. Christians need to be as uptight as possible. Sorry for the sarcasm.