Paul did not teach Perpetual Belief Alone-ism for salvation.

[Bible Highlighter]

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." Jn 15:6

Surely, a man who doesn't have a real Faith will not abide in Him and will pay the price. John affirms Sola Fide there.

John records Jesus as saying, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).
So if we are not loving Jesus by keeping His commandments, we would be accursed.

Jesus says if any man does not do what He says they are like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Apostle Paul definitely did teach that it was by faith alone and not by works that we are justified, and access God's saving grace and power.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB)
5 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB)
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]

HOWEVER,

The Passages you listed represent, explain and define the acceptable faith, which is founded in the two basic teachings that Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and Jude continually stress:

• To deny the selfish ambitions of the carnal mind
• To be separate and holy before God - To live the rest of your life following Jesus into a life of holiness and love - obeying all things whatsoever He has commanded of you.

Therefore, a Gospel Faith is demonstrated by living out the these two foundational teachings of the Gospel Faith in all we do within the present wicked system of things just as Lord Jesus did.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

John 14:21 (NIV)
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

1 John 2:1-6 (NIV)
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Blessings

What does Galatians 6:8-9 say? It says that if we sow to the flesh (sin), we will reap corruption. But if we sow to the Spirit, we will reap life everlasting. In verse 9 it continues to define what “sow to the Spirit” means by saying that if we faint not in “well doing” we will reap. This well doing = sowing to the Spirit. Life everlasting = Salvation. In other words, if we sow in well doing (by the Spirit) we will reap salvation. So well doing is connected to salvation. To say so otherwise is to deny what Paul wrote.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Apostle Paul definitely did teach that it was by faith alone and not by works that we are justified, and access God's saving grace and power.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB)
5 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB)
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]

HOWEVER,

The Passages you listed represent, explain and define the acceptable Faith of the Gospel, which is founded in the two basic teachings that Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and Jude continually stress:

• To deny the selfish ambitions of the carnal mind, which is, being separate and holy before God.
• To live the rest of your life following Jesus into a life of holiness and love - obeying all things whatsoever He has commanded of you.

Therefore, a Gospel Faith is demonstrated by living out the these two foundational teachings of the Gospel Faith (holiness and love) in all we do within the present wicked system of things just as Lord Jesus did.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

John 14:21 (NIV)
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

1 John 2:1-6 (NIV)
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Blessings

I believe the Bible teaches that we need to be concerned about two aspects of salvation. They are Justification, and Sanctification.

#1. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

 

[Mark Quayle]

This is an oxymoron or a contradiction. You say that works are a part of eternal life but then you turn around and contradict yourself and say that works do not cause any kind of salvation. It says to sow to the Spirit and you will reap life everlasting. It does not say for you to do nothing and just believe in Jesus and you will reap life everlasting. Just substitute the words “life everlasting” for “salvation” and it becomes clear. Substitute the words, “sow to the Spirit” for... “welling doing.” So if we faint not in welling doing, we will reap salvation. It says the alternative is that if one sows to the flesh (sin), they will reap corruption. Two different destinies. If a belief alone and sowing to the flesh (sin) was an option in reaping life everlasting, it would say that in Galatians 6:8-9, but it doesn't. You simply are not dealing with what the text plainly says here because it does not agree with your belief.

How does "works are a part of eternal life" (did I use those words, or is than an extraplation? Anyway,) contradict works do not cause salvation? I see no problem there. 'Being a part of' does not constitute 'contributes to'. A kid may be on the team, but contributing toward the win is a whole different thing. Yet this is even farther removed from that. One does nothing for God, in and of oneself. Apart from the Spirit, nobody loves God, nobody desires Christ, nobody does good, compliance with the law is not submission to the law --not obedience, repentance by the flesh is still enmity with God.

"Welling doing"? I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say. "Well in doing"? "Doing by will"? Anyway, Works are a part of eternal life, but do not cause eternal life. Why is that hard to understand? Eternal life is the gift of God, and the work of God. Our involvement does not increase the effect in some way, as though God's was insufficient. Our involvement is IN HIM, TRHOUGH HIM, BY HIM. It is not as though the sum of the activities of both God and Human was greater than God's alone.

Apart from Christ can do nothing. There is no contradiction.

Yes, you may say there are good works, but you don't believe those works save. So when I refer to Belief Alone-ism, I am referring to how you believe that this in reference to salvation. You believe a Belief in Jesus and not works is what saves. The problem with this kind of thinking is that Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. So the tree and the fruit are connected. You want to disconnect them. Jesus is the vine. We are the branches. If we don't produce good fruit, we will be cut off (See: John 15:6). That is why works are necessary. They are a salvation issue. While we cannot work our way alone into the Kingdom without God's grace, we do need to have works and live a holy life as a part of Sanctification (after we are saved by God's grace).

I am sorry to hear from you this affirmation of what I thought you might be saying, to begin with --that works Save. The problem you perceive, with your quote concerning the fruit tree only further shows the difference. The tree must produce fruit. If it does not, it is destroyed. Reformed theology says the same. The fruit demonstrates, identifies, the tree. It does not cause the tree.

God alone chose and created this new creation we are. He did so in order that we would produce good works. We cannot give ourselves new birth.

I hesitate to think you actually believe the doctrine you claim here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How does "works are a part of eternal life" (did I use those words, or is than an extraplation? Anyway,) contradict works do not cause salvation? I see no problem there. 'Being a part of' does not constitute 'contributes to'. A kid may be on the team, but contributing toward the win is a whole different thing. Yet this is even farther removed from that. One does nothing for God, in and of oneself. Apart from the Spirit, nobody loves God, nobody desires Christ, nobody does good, compliance with the law is not submission to the law --not obedience, repentance by the flesh is still enmity with God.

"Welling doing"? I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say. "Well in doing"? "Doing by will"? Anyway, Works are a part of eternal life, but do not cause eternal life. Why is that hard to understand? Eternal life is the gift of God, and the work of God. Our involvement does not increase the effect in some way, as though God's was insufficient. Our involvement is IN HIM, TRHOUGH HIM, BY HIM. It is not as though the sum of the activities of both God and Human was greater than God's alone.

Apart from Christ can do nothing. There is no contradiction.


I am sorry to hear from you this affirmation of what I thought you might be saying, to begin with --that works Save. The problem you perceive, with your quote concerning the fruit tree only further shows the difference. The tree must produce fruit. If it does not, it is destroyed. Reformed theology says the same. The fruit demonstrates, identifies, the tree. It does not cause the tree.

God alone chose and created this new creation we are. He did so in order that we would produce good works. We cannot give ourselves new birth.

I hesitate to think you actually believe the doctrine you claim here.

I would encourage everyone not to look at Reformed Theology or any church doctrine in what they say. Just simply ask God and study the Bible on one's own and He will reveal the truth to a person in what His Word says. Again, just read Galatians 6:8-9 like a child. It is saying if we do well, we will reap salvation. There are tons of verses by other apostles and even our Lord Jesus that say the same thing, but because many think Paul taught grace only, I am pointing out that Paul also agreed with Jesus and the other apostles.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Many tell me in Christianity that one can sin and still be saved because they have a belief alone on Jesus. Paul says one says that one is proud if they do not agree with the doctrine according to godliness. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and He gives grace to the humble.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would encourage everyone not to look at Reformed Theology or any church doctrine in what they say. Just simply ask God and study the Bible on your own and He will reveal the truth to a person in what His Word says.

That is what I did, and lo and behold, years later, I find out what I believe almost in every way is Reformed Theology.

Again, just read Galatians 6:8-9 like a child. It is saying if we do well, we will reap salvation.

You suggest they read the verses like a child, one at a time, and do not consider them together. That they read simplistically, without exegesis, as though it was written in the native tongue of each reader, present day, during a life they each are familiar with, from the point of view of each: AKA Eisegesis.

There are tons of verses by other apostles and even our Lord Jesus that say the same thing, but because many think Paul taught grace only, I am pointing out that Paul also agreed with Jesus and the other apostles.

Paul never taught Salvation is caused by human works. He, as James et al, taught that regeneration CAUSES works (therefore, make every effort). I know they look the same to you, but "accompanied by works" is not the same thing as "accomplished by works".

 

[Mark Quayle]

Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Many tell me in Christianity that one can sin and still be saved because they have a belief alone on Jesus. Paul says one says that one is proud if they do not agree with the doctrine according to godliness. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and He gives grace to the humble.

Perhaps you can show a quote from someone on this site that believes one can sin with abandon, and still have reason to believe they belong to Christ. I for one say such a thing is worse than silly; God is not mocked. But I don't recall ever seeing where anybody else says that.

 

[setst777]

What does Galatians 6:8-9 say? It says that if we sow to the flesh (sin), we will reap corruption. But if we sow to the Spirit, we will reap life everlasting. In verse 9 it continues to define what “sow to the Spirit” means by saying that if we faint not in “well doing” we will reap. This well doing = sowing to the Spirit. Life everlasting = Salvation. In other words, if we sow in well doing (by the Spirit) we will reap salvation. So well doing is connected to salvation. To say so otherwise is to deny what Paul wrote.

Exactly! That is how we demonstrate our faith - the Gospel Faith - in Lord Jesus.

By sowing to the Spirit, we receive life in the Spirit - a new birth in the Spirit by living, walking, and sowing to the Spirit who indwells us by faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Perhaps you can show a quote from someone on this site that believes one can sin with abandon, and still have reason to believe they belong to Christ. I for one say such a thing is worse than silly; God is not mocked. But I don't recall ever seeing where anybody else says that.

It only takes one sin that is not confessed to be out of God's favor. Many have told me that believers can abide in some level of sin and yet they are still saved by having a belief alone on Jesus. Paul did not teach this. He taught sowing to the Spirit (well doing) is a part of reaping everlasting life (Galatians 6:8-9).

Let me ask you: Was king David saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

 

[setst777]

I believe the Bible teaches that we need to be concerned about two aspects of salvation. They are Justification, and Sanctification.

#1. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

I agree. A true Gospel Faith is represented by dying to the old life and then living in obedience to our Lord Jesus.

The faith we are justified by is a Gospel Faith.

A Gospel Faith is one in which we repent (a complete change of mind and purpose after learning the Gospel Revelation) represented by a commitment to deny yourself, and the live out the remainder of your life to listen to and follow Jesus.

Faith always includes repentance:

Acts 20:29-21 (WEB) 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

That is the only faith by which God justifies us.

Therefore, a Gospel Faith in Christ Jesus is one in which we are disciples of Jesus, obedient to our rightful Lord and Master.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

Our faith must lead us to be Christ's disciples, to follow Him, or our faith is a lie.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Therefore,

• by a Gospel Faith we are justified.
• by a Gospel Faith we are being sanctified by God.

Acts 26:16-18
17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

 

[Ceallaigh]

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

So you're saying that even though I repented I'm still going to hell, is that it?

If not why are you posting fire and brimstone verses after I repented and rededicated my life to the Lord?

 

[coffee4u]

In regards 1 Corinthians 15:53: Our bodies being once tainted by sin by our old life and by living in a fallen world from Adam does not mean that we must commit grievous sin 24/7 or that we are slaves to mortal sin in some way.

Romans 7:14-24 is in reference to Paul recounting his experience as Saul being under the Old Testament Law of Moses and trying to be saved by the Law according to the Pharisee religion. Paul is not referring to his experience as a Christian. That is a gross misinterpretation that is common among those who believe they can abide in mortal sin and still be saved.

Look in the mirror. If you are older like I am you will see lines and sag. My body is ageing and dying and one day it will be gone. This is simply the flesh and it will not be perfected until the Lord returns. As someone with a myriad of health problems I look forward to having a body free of pain. You can't put this body off, not until you die.

Where did I say we must commit grievous sin? Might want to check back through what I actually said. Do you ever listen to gossip? That's sin. It tickles our ears, may fill us with pride that 'we don't do that'. Did you ever take that last chocolate biscuit (or cookie if you are American) that's greed, it satisfies the flesh. Do you ever get angry and raise your voice? Do you ever jay walk when there is a crossing some metes away or purposely drive just that little bit faster than the speed limit? These are all sins. Now they may not be 'huge' premeditated sins like moving in together and fornicating, but they are still sins, because we are not perfect. Maybe we struggle with smoking or chewing our nails or drinking too much coffee, and we know it and hate it like Paul did. It is still a struggle against our corupt flesh. Our soul and our spirit know what is right and good and want to carry it out because God's laws are on our hearts, but these bodies of flesh fight against them.
Romans 7:15-20
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
This is Paul saying this and he was saved.

 

[setst777]

I would encourage everyone not to look at Reformed Theology or any church doctrine in what they say. Just simply ask God and study the Bible on one's own and He will reveal the truth to a person in what His Word says. Again, just read Galatians 6:8-9 like a child. It is saying if we do well, we will reap salvation. There are tons of verses by other apostles and even our Lord Jesus that say the same thing, but because many think Paul taught grace only, I am pointing out that Paul also agreed with Jesus and the other apostles.

I agree. Reformed Theology is really anti-Christian, in that, their theology takes away all responsibility to remain faithful before our Lord and Savior. They believe God actively initiates, and then guarantees faith of those God elected to the end.

Therefore, Reformed Theology is a license for immorality.

Luke 21:36 (WEB) 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Romans 11:19-22 (WEB) 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Thessalonians 1:4-11 (WEB) 4 So that we ourselves boast about you in the assemblies of God for your perseverance and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions which you endure. 5 This is an obvious sign of the righteous judgment of God, to the end that you may be counted worthy of God’s Kingdom, for which you also suffer.

Revelation 3:3-4 (WEB) 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is what I did, and lo and behold, years later, I find out what I believe almost in every way is Reformed Theology.

Not possible because the Bible does not teach such a thing. For you have to re-write all the free will statements away in the Bible. It could be that you simply did not like these kinds of verses by your own personal preference and RT just aligned with that mental preference that is not biblical.

You suggest they read the verses like a child, one at a time, and do not consider them together. That they read simplistically, without exegesis, as though it was written in the native tongue of each reader, present day, during a life they each are familiar with, from the point of view of each: AKA Eisegesis.

That is what I believe folks are wrongfully doing with Galatians 6:8-9. They are inserting their own ideas into what that verse says because they don't like what it says anymore than they don't like what 2 Corinthians 7:1 says. Just read it, and believe it. There is no need to undo what the text says plainly. The context does not change what Galatians 6:8-9 says. If you believe otherwise, prove your case with the Bible.

Paul never taught Salvation is caused by human works. He, as James et al, taught that regeneration CAUSES works (therefore, make every effort). I know they look the same to you, but "accompanied by works" is not the same thing as "accomplished by works".

I believe God does the good work through the believer (See: Philippians 2:13, and John 15:5).
God = Salvation. Abiding in God = Salvation. So if we abide in God, good work will be done by Him through us. This is why works are a part of salvation. They are connected to God Himself in What He does. Jesus said, “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6). Jesus said if any man does not do what He says, He is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

God's salvation is not forced upon us, nor is it withheld from others in this life.
A person either chooses to accept God or not.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 says,
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

What is the reason why those in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 perish? Does it say that they were not elected to salvation? No. It says the reason is.... THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. In Calvinism, there is no MIGHT be saved. But yet, my Bible tells me so.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Not possible because the Bible does not teach such a thing. For you have to re-write all the free will statements away in the Bible. It could be that you simply did not like these kinds of verses by your own personal preference and RT just aligned with that mental preference that is not biblical.

It begins with sovereignty, really, which is a constant theme throughout Scripture. God does whatever he wants, and none of us have anything to say about it. He has no obligation to fulfill our expectations. He does not consult us before deciding. He does what he does concerning us for his own reasons and according to his own plans. And for this, he is worthy of praise, not simply for his mercy toward unworthy creatures. All Biblical.

IT IS GOD who works in you both to will and to do according to his good pleasure. No, I didn't make that up. I found it in Scripture. Goodness does not come from me, but from God alone.

"Apart from me, you can do nothing" I didn't make that up either.

God is still putting to death my rotten notion of Self-Determination. But you insist on it.

Let me ask you: Was king David saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

Are you asking did he become saved at that point, or did he remain one of the elect throughout? He did not lose his salvation.

Remember, when he said, "Restore unto me the joy of my salvation", he did not say, "Restore unto me my salvation."

 

[Mark Quayle]

It only takes one sin that is not confessed to be out of God's favor. Many have told me that believers can abide in some level of sin and yet they are still saved by having a belief alone on Jesus. Paul did not teach this. He taught sowing to the Spirit (well doing) is a part of reaping everlasting life (Galatians 6:8-9).

I believe I am saved by God's choice, and by God's work. THERE is my confidence. Even if I have deceived myself, as my works so often imply, yet I know God will complete what he has begun, with or without me, and that HE is already satisfied with the result. THERE is my joy. My performance is of minimal importance in the overall effect, yet my sin, specially sin in the face of such great mercy and grace, causes him more harm that I can imagine. It is extremely important --but not as man assesses such things.

 

[setst777]

It begins with sovereignty, really, which is a constant theme throughout Scripture.

setst RE: No Christian sect that I am aware of denies the Sovereignty of God.

The question is, does ones understanding of God's Sovereignty harmonize with all the Scriptures in context.

God does whatever he wants, and none of us have anything to say about it.

setst RE: Does God reveal what He wants as regards the Gospel Revelation?

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in
keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

• 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings
• by the command of the eternal God,
• so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith —

27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

IT IS GOD who works in you both to will and to do according to his good pleasure.

setst RE: God accomplishes this as we faithfully work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Philippians 2:12-13 (WEB)
12 So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who works in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

If we believe in Lord Jesus, then we will follow him (Matthew 28:19-20).

As we follow Jesus, we are obligated to live, walk, and sow to the Spirit of God so that God may lead us (by His Spirit) to do His good work (Romans 8:12-14; Galatians 6:7-9; Galatians 5:24-25) whom we receive by faith so that God may do His work in us.

Romans 8:12-14 (NIV)
Writing to the Church in Rome
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but
if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB)
Writing to the Church in Galatia
7 Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we don’t give up.

"Apart from me, you can do nothing" I didn't make that up either.

If we do not resist God's Spirit who indwells us by faith, but instead live and walk by the Spirit (abide in Him), then God will do all His work in us.

Acts 7 (WEB) 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do.”

Isaiah 63:10 (WEB) 10 But they rebelled, and grieved his holy Spirit. Therefore he turned and became their enemy, and he himself fought against them.

Psalm 106:32 (WEB) Bolding mine…32 By the waters of Meribah they angered the Lord, and trouble came to Moses because of them; 33 for they rebelled against the Spirit of God, and rash words came from Moses’ lips.

Ephesians 4:30-31 (WEB) Bolding mine… 30 Don’t grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, outcry, and slander, be put away from you, with all malice.

Hebrews 10:29 (WEB) Bolding mine… 29 How much severe punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Therefore, for God to lead us by His Spirit for good, then we are obligated to live, walk, and sow to the Spirit who indwells us by an obedient faith:

Acts 5 (WEB) 32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

Blessings

 

[Ceallaigh]

The problem in saying that works will flow out of a true belief (faith) in Jesus and yet on the other hand saying that good works do not save can basically lead a person wrongfully rationalize that they do not need any good works because they do not save. For do you believe that if a person has no good works, they are not saved? If so, then they play a part in salvation. They would be a part of the salvation equation in some way. If faith alone (belief) is truly the only thing that saves, then you don't need works. Even if you believed that a true faith (belief) saves and it will always lead to showing good works, these works would then be necessary as a part of salvation because they are evidence of your salvation. They are connected. Thus works are needed as a part of salvation. But if works do not save in any way, then one can just believe in Jesus and have no works and they can be saved. Follow the logic now.

Since it's virtually impossible for someome to not have any good works, why is this even an issue?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Look in the mirror. If you are older like I am you will see lines and sag. My body is ageing and dying and one day it will be gone. This is simply the flesh and it will not be perfected until the Lord returns. As someone with a myriad of health problems I look forward to having a body free of pain. You can't put this body off, not until you die.

Then this all the more reason you need to heed the Bible in what it actually says, brother.
Most want the Bible to say what they want it to say.

Where did I say we must commit grievous sin? Might want to check back through what I actually said.

Let me ask you: Do you believe king David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Do you believe a Christian is saved if they looked upon a woman in lust and they then got hit by a bus and they died before they got a chance to confess their sins to Jesus? Do you believe a Christian is saved if they backslide into a lifestyle of sin?

Do you ever listen to gossip? That's sin. It tickles our ears, may fill us with pride that 'we don't do that'. Did you ever take that last chocolate biscuit (or cookie if you are American) that's greed, it satisfies the flesh. Do you ever get angry and raise your voice? Do you ever jay walk when there is a crossing some metes away or purposely drive just that little bit faster than the speed limit? These are all sins. Now they may not be 'huge' premeditated sins like moving in together and fornicating, but they are still sins, because we are not perfect. Maybe we struggle with smoking or chewing our nails or drinking too much coffee, and we know it and hate it like Paul did. It is still a struggle against our corupt flesh. Our soul and our spirit know what is right and good and want to carry it out because God's laws are on our hearts, but these bodies of flesh fight against them.
Romans 7:15-20
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
This is Paul saying this and he was saved.

Again, Paul did not say this as a Christian, but he said this from his past experience as a Pharisee without Jesus in his life. How so? Well, the apostle Paul would be a hypocrite if he told us to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God in 2 Corinthians 7:1 if he was wretched sinner who was enslaved to sin. It would be like your Pastor telling you to stop sinning and yet he was sleeping around with half of the church. Paul said to follow his example as Christ is his example (1 Corinthians 11:1). Paul said we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).

I mean, what do you even make of 1 Corinthians 5? Paul told the church body to kick out that Christian who was committing fornication in the church. If Paul was a wretched sinner, then he has no grounds to tell another to not sin. He would be in the same boat of sin with that guy who was kicked out of the church. See.... this is why what you believe is not in line with the Bible. We are saved by God's grace. No doubt about it. But you fail to understand that Titus 2:11-12 says that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live godly and righteously in this present world. How can Paul tell Titus this if he himself is not living godly?