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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
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It's not the paper...it is the words upon it, my friend.
Both Jesus Christ and the words on the page are one and the same.
For example, Christ is the spiritual and physical representation of the Godhead:
" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." ( John 1:1-3 ).
" And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." ( John 1:14 ).
The words of God are what we as believers live by ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ):
" Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." ( James 1:18 ).
" Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." ( John 15:3 )
Scripture is the word of God, inspired ( 2 Timothy 3:15-16 ) and written down by His apostles and prophets for His sheep to take comfort in ( Romans 15:4 ).
Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God made flesh, was the one who gave it to them.
The Lord Jesus and His every word are synonymous, and they both came forth from the Father.
Where you get the impression that they are not the same, I do not know.
To put it in a more summarized fashion,
The words on the page are Jesus Christ speaking to His sheep, the ones given to Him by His Father ( John 17:2 ).
This is patently false. The Word of God is not only Jesus, but is also the communicated Word of God (Which is either the spoken Word of God or the written Word of God, i.e. Scripture). How so? Well, we see the Bible make a reference to EVERY WORD OF GOD.
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.” (Proverbs 30:5).
“And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” (Luke 4:4).
So unless you believe there are multiple versions of Jesus, then we must conclude that “EVERY word of God” (mentioned in these above two verses) is in reference to God's Holy Word (i.e. the spoken Word of God or the written Word of God, i.e. Scripture).
We live by Jesus Christ who saves us. The words written on paper cannot save you. If they could, then the Law could save us. But the words on paper are a witness of the Word of God who was made flesh and dwelt among us. That is why everything that Christ said and did is a message to us. Until the Word of God through the Holy Spirit is written in your heart, you cannot be saved. The Word of God is spiritual and not physical. Nothing physical can save you. It really is not more complicated than that.
Joe
"Every word" is referring to things that are not "bread" that comes from God. It is not referring to other things that are also the Word of God. Only Christ is the Word of God. You are thinking carnally and not spiritually.
Joe
I believe the Scripture teaches that the Lord overcomes a person and then changes their hearts without our permission, or I see that no one would be saved.One of the big points in Calvinism is Unconditional Election. This to me is an attack upon the good character of our God. I don't believe God forces some to be saved, and forces others to be unsaved. In other words, God does not create a bunch of life for the specific purpose to be tortured alive for all eternity based on His sovereign good will (against their free will choice).
My friend, to answer your OP, there is only one outpouring of the Spirit necessary to understand the Scriptures ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 )...
Because the natural man does not "receive", or welcome the things of the Spirit of God, and they are foolishness to him...Neither can he know them, for they are spiritually ( by the Spirit ) discerned ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 ), it is necessary for the Lord to give us, as His people, the Spirit...The one when a person was sealed unto the day of redemption ( Ephesians 4:30 ), when they first believed the Gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 ).
So while I agree with you that it takes the power and presence of the Holy Spirit to do such, there is no early and latter rain of the Spirit ( two outpourings ) that are needed for this. There is only one measure of the Spirit given to His people, their Comforter....of which they can be full of the Spirit, or quench Him.
The early and latter rain that you speak of in the Bible, is the Lord waiting for the precious fruit of the earth...His people ( James 5:7 ).
In the pattern given in Deuteronomy 11:14, Jeremiah 5:24 and Joel 2:23 where the early ( Spring ) rains come for planting and to enable growth, and the latter ( Autumn ) rains come before harvest and to ensure a fuller fruit, the Lord feeds and waters His sheep so that they grow to their fullest, spiritually ( 1 Peter 2:2 ).
Not only is the word described as "milk" and "meat" ( 1 Corinthians 3:2 ), it is also water ( Ephesians 5:26 ) by which the Lord's ministers feed and water the sheep ( 1 Corinthians 3:5-8 ), while He gives the increase.
He gives both an early ( preaching of the Gospel ) and a latter ( preaching of doctrine by the word ) rain so that in the process, His children grow to maturity and bear fruit ( Galatians 5:22-23 )...
Some 30, some 60 and some 100-fold ( Matthew 13 ).
May God bless you richly in your studies.
"Every word" is referring to things that are not "bread" that comes from God. It is not referring to other things that are also the Word of God. Only Christ is the Word of God. You are thinking carnally and not spiritually.
Joe
My friend, to answer your OP, there is only one outpouring of the Spirit necessary to understand the Scriptures ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 )...
Because the natural man does not "receive", or welcome the things of the Spirit of God, and they are foolishness to him...Neither can he know them, for they are spiritually ( by the Spirit ) discerned ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 ), it is necessary for the Lord to give us, as His people, the Spirit...The one when a person was sealed unto the day of redemption ( Ephesians 4:30 ), when they first believed the Gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 ).
So while I agree with you that it takes the power and presence of the Holy Spirit to do such, there is no early and latter rain of the Spirit ( two outpourings ) that are needed for this. There is only one measure of the Spirit given to His people, their Comforter....of which they can be full of the Spirit, or quench Him.
The early and latter rain that you speak of in the Bible, is the Lord waiting for the precious fruit of the earth...His people ( James 5:7 ).
In the pattern given in Deuteronomy 11:14, Jeremiah 5:24 and Joel 2:23 where the early ( Spring ) rains come for planting and to enable growth, and the latter ( Autumn ) rains come before harvest and to ensure a fuller fruit, the Lord feeds and waters His sheep so that they grow to their fullest, spiritually ( 1 Peter 2:2 ).
Not only is the word described as "milk" and "meat" ( 1 Corinthians 3:2 ), it is also water ( Ephesians 5:26 ) by which the Lord's ministers feed and water the sheep ( 1 Corinthians 3:5-8 ), while He gives the increase.
He gives both an early ( preaching of the Gospel ) and a latter ( preaching of doctrine by the word ) rain so that in the process, His children grow to maturity and bear fruit ( Galatians 5:22-23 )...
Some 30, some 60 and some 100-fold ( Matthew 13 ).
May God bless you richly in your studies.
I agree.That is why scripture says that Christ will "pour out" his Spirit in the last days and write His Law of the Spirit in our hearts. That is why we are baptized in "water" (the Holy Spirit). It is not literal or physical. It is spiritual and happens "within" us.
@FaithWillDo
Again, Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).
What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.
The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.
In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).
So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.
In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).
So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.
For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).
On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).
Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.
The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.
Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).
The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).
I do, or no one would be saved.
If that belief of the Scriptures makes me a "Calvinist", then so be it.
As for "forcing others to be unsaved", it appears to me that you are thinking in terms of man being able to do something to gain that salvation...which we are not. Salvation and the gifts of God like eternal life, which is to know Him and His Son ( John 17:3 ), are described in Scripture as gifts, not rewards for good behaviour.
Please allow me to explain:
You see, in order for God to "force man to be unsaved", He would have to prevent those who wanted to be saved from His wrath, from not being able to do so. This He does as clearly explained in Luke 13:24, where the Lord Jesus tells us that " many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able".
But God does not force anyone who genuinely wants to have an eternal, heart-to-heart relationship with Him and His Son, from entering in. Those whose sin grieves them, who hunger and thirst after righteousness and who hate this world and its ways, are welcome with Him.
The problem is, is that it takes a miracle of God for that to happen in a person.
It's called the new birth.
Because we are dead in our sins and trespasses and our condition is such that we willfully choose to go against God and to hate Him everyday ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 ), that cycle needs to be broken...
and break it He does, for each and everyone of the millions that are his ( Revelation 7:9 ).
Basically, there's two sides of the same "coin" and two "coins"...
1) For those He has given a new heart to and that genuinely seek Him from that heart, they later come to know that they were created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
2) For those who hate Him and never do come to value righteousness and hate their own sin from a genuine attitude of repentance ( not to keep out of Hell, but because they really hate disobeying the Lord out of a genuine love for Him and His ways ), they get exactly what they had coming...eternal wrath.
Aren't you glad you've believed on Christ?
The Bible says that those who have believed on Him, from the heart, have hope...unless you've believed in vain, my friend, which I truly hope that you have not.
The Lord Jesus tells us, "Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
".
Heavy laden with what?
Sin, my friend.
Has he ever confronted you with your sin and need of a Saviour?
Then know that it was because He chose you to salvation and caused you to approach Him in faith and repentance ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Psalms 65:4 ).
"Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God..."
But the same is also true:
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear".
He that is of God hears God words...
He that is not of God, does not ( John 8:47 ).
Dear Bible Highlighter,
I can't agree with you. Jesus is the Word of God and nothing else is. When Christ speaks, His words come out from the Word of God. When the prophets/saints recorded those words, they become scripture and act as a WITNESS of Him.
There is no sense in discussing it further.
Joe
" Be patient, then, brothers and sisters, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop, patiently waiting for the autumn and spring rains." James 5:7
The meaning of this couldn't be clearer. The farmer is patiently waiting for the autumn and spring rains, the water that falls from the sky and waters his crops. While the meaning can be extended to symbolically mean what you say, it is clear what the Bible text actually means.
So those of us who disagree with your definition of the Word of God are thinking carnally, but you are thinking spiritually? Really? I didn't realize that you are the embodiment of truth while the rest of us walk in darkness. How lost we are!
The Bible is the Word of God (in the normal English meaning). When John wrote "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" he was using the Greek word "logos", meaning the principle of divine reason and creative order. It is a difficult concept to understand, but it is referring to reason and order, not the written Word.
Again, the "Word of God", in common English usage, refers to God-inspired writings that have been collected for us into a single volume called "The Bible". Mixing the two meanings is confusing at best, sophistry at worst.
I agree.
As for "Pentecostalism", I reject the two outpourings of the Holy Spirit as you've described.
To me, it is a dividing of one event that happens in the life of a believer and it confuses the filling of the Spirit and the indwelling of Him in one of God's children by calling them two outpourings and not one, which then manifests itself later and from time to time.
In other words, one outpouring at belief, and multiple manifestations of the same indwelling / outpouring throughout a believer's life and by the work of God.
I wish you well, sir.
Scripture says that the words Christ speaks are "spirit". When scripture is teachings us, it uses words that are spirit words and they carry a "meaning different than what man's wisdom teaches".
Dear Pescador,
The true meaning of scripture is taught in Christ's spiritual language and the ability for a person to understand that language is only given by Christ at the Latter Rain.
The Word of God is Jesus Christ and the words that He speaks are recorded by the prophets/saints and is called scripture. Scripture is not the Word of God but it does contain the words of God. You are confusing the title "Word of God" with words that the Word of God speaks. Scripture is merely a record of those words that the Word of God speaks and it acts as a witness of Him - it is not the "Word of God" itself.
Joe
You say that when Christ speaks it comes out from the Word of God. However, Jesus Christ is the Word of God. They are one and the same. The Word was made flesh (See: John 1:1, and John 1:14).
Anyways, I have mentioned two verses to you previously in my other post (Proverbs 30:5, and Luke 4:4) that refutes your false line of thinking. For the Word of God can ALSO be Scripture, as well. But you refuse to truly address these two verses or explain them in a way that makes any logical sense.
Dear Bible Highlighter,
Yes, Jesus is the Word of God but the words He speaks is not the "Word of God". The Word of God is a name and/or even a title. The words and actions of the Word of God is how God communicates with us. In written form, the Word of God's words are called scripture. Jesus Christ is not scripture. Scripture is a witness of Jesus Christ who is the Word of God.
To hold up a bible and claim that it is the Word of God is not scripturally correct. The bible is a written record that witnesses the things that the Word of God said and did. Only Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God.
Like I said, there is no reason to continue this discussion. You will not change my mind.
Joe
Dear Bible Highlighter,
Yes, Jesus is the Word of God but the words He speaks is not the "Word of God". The Word of God is a name and/or even a title. The words and actions of the Word of God is how God communicates with us. In written form, the Word of God's words are called scripture. Jesus Christ is not scripture. Scripture is a witness of Jesus Christ who is the Word of God.
To hold up a bible and claim that it is the Word of God is not scripturally correct. The bible is a written record that witnesses the things that the Word of God said and did. Only Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God.
Like I said, there is no reason to continue this discussion. You will not change my mind.
Joe