Does faith justify? (I have an answer, but would like input.

[ozso]

I would recommend watching this video.

I watched it and it contains what I've been taught for decades. Plus what I've read in the Bible myself. It seems to be addressing those who aren't being taught what should be taught and don't read the Bible. Although even for those who have already been taught these things and read the Bible, it's a good refresher.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't think you were a Catholic. I just said so far Catholic websites are the sources I'm seeing in trying to figure out what "mortal sins" are.

The closest thing to "mortal sin" I know of being mentioned in the BIble is 1 John 5:16-17
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

And just what that "mortal sin" is (John seems to indicate there's only one) is a bit of a mystery and there's various interpretations of its meaning.

A mortal sin is any sin that leads to hellfire, and destruction of one's soul to condemnation with the wicked (like: murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry). I believe a Christian can commit a mortal sin and when they do, they abide in spiritual death (i.e. they are in danger of hellfire) until they confess of their sins to Jesus with the intention of overcoming that sin in this life and they seek to battle against it. But if one says they cannot help but to sin again, that's a deal breaker. Of course, they could repent of this false belief, but will many do that? Only the Lord knows.

Christians must live holy (overcome mortal sin at some point in this life) after they are saved by God's grace as a part of God's plan of salvation.

“For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's the two commandments.

I did a study on the New Testament commandments, and so you are preaching to the choir.
While we can love Jesus or God by loving our neighbor (i.e. helping the poor, etc.), there is more aspects to loving God in the 1st greatest commandment given to us. The full version of the 1st greatest commandment is found only in Mark 12:29-30. Mark is the least of the gospels and so that is why this command is found there. It is humble.

Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4, “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,...”

This is saying that if anyone teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing. Proud is the opposite of being humble.

James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

The Bible mentions how we can overcome sin (i.e. mortal sin) in Galatians 5:24, John 5:14, John 8:11, 1 Peter 4:1-2, Titus 2:14, 2 Corinthians 7:1, etc.

Jesus warned against committing certain sins with the threat of condemnation to our souls in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part inheriting eternal life in Luke 10:25-28.

So if anyone (even a believer) is not on board with these words of Jesus, those words will judge them on the last day. For Jesus basically said in John 12:48 that if anyone does not receive His words, those very words shall judge that person on the last day. In other words, they are not going to make it into God's kingdom because they went against God's Word in justyfing sin in how God's Word defines justifying sin and not in how they define it.

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus and love others as Christ loved us (unconditional love).

Do you believe you have to love as a part of eternal life?
Loving in action would be considered a work.

God is love and that is what the entire law ultimately proclaims, love from a pure heart.

The one that loves others without conditions attached, reflects Christ' love in a perfect way.

So the statement; my yoke is easy and my burden is light is fulfilled.

It is easier to love rather than to do sinful things. But I don't believe we are truly loving if we are not obeying Jesus (See: John 14:15, and John 15:10).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I watched it and it contains what I've been taught for decades. Plus what I've read in the Bible myself. It seems to be addressing those who aren't being taught what should be taught and don't read the Bible. Although even for those who have already been taught these things and read the Bible, it's a good refresher.

Sorry brother. If you understood what he was truly teaching, you would be preaching against Free Grace, and OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) with a certainty and passionate fire. For this Pastor is strongly against OSAS and has preached against it.

 

[ozso]

A mortal sin is any sin that leads to hellfire, and destruction of one's soul to condemnation with the wicked (like: murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry). I believe a Christian can commit a mortal sin and when they do, they abide in spiritual death (i.e. they are in danger of hellfire) until they confess of their sins to Jesus with the intention of overcoming that sin in this life and they seek to battle against it. But if one says they cannot help but to sin again, that's a deal breaker. Of course, they could repent of this false belief, but will many do that? Only the Lord knows.

Christians must live holy (overcome mortal sin at some point in this life) after they are saved by God's grace as a part of God's plan of salvation.

“For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

I think the list of sins that lead to hellfire is very long and possibly beyond what one can keep track of. Isn't what you're talking about having no regard for sin?

Revelation 21:8 says that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire. So it sounds like you're saying if you tell a lie, and then you get hit by a bus a couple of minutes later, you're going to hell, because you didn't have time to confess it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think the list of sins that lead to hellfire is very long and possibly beyond what one can keep track of. Isn't what you're talking about having no regard for sin?

No. Mortal sins are not a list of sins you cannot keep track of because if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh according to Galatians 5:16. One of the ways we walk in the Spirit is by putting the Spirit inspired Scriptures into our hearts and by obeying them. We cultivate the fruits of love, joy, peace, and being long suffering towards others.

Revelation 21:8 says that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire. So it sounds like you're saying if you tell a lie, and then you get hit by a bus a couple of minutes later, you're going to hell, because you didn't have time to confess it.

That certainly is a possibility, but I think this would be for the believer who had a mindset that they must always commit mortal sin in this earthly life. However, God would not let His faithful one to stumble and then get hit by a bus without confessing of their sin. God knows a person's heart and if their intention is to justify sin and or to truly follow the Lord and or our God. If one is for obedience to Jesus, then they are radical in seeking to obey the Lord in everything and they will not make room for sin as the popular Free Grace crowd makes an allowance for. For they believe they can sin and still be saved. They believe you can get hit by a bus without confessing of that mortal sin and you are still saved. They believe the prodigal son was not spiritually dead when he was living it up with prostitutes. This means one has a license to sin on some level. This would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us about.

 

[ozso]

Sorry brother. If you understood what he was truly teaching, you would be preaching against Free Grace, and OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) with a certainty and passionate fire. For this Pastor is strongly against OSAS and has preached against it.

I AM NOT PREACHING FREE GRACE or OSAS. It seems like talking with you has been pointless so far because you have been going by a false presumption.

I already said before "I am not a Free Grace proponent". Just because I am questioning and examining something, doesn't mean that I am for it or against it.

Here's another video. This is someone I've listened to and interacted with on numerous occasions for over ten years. He's one of my most go to teachers.

v Read my signature v​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What you said here, is correct in my opinion:

So you believe that a believer can go from spiritual life to spiritual death, and then back to spiritual life again? That is what I was saying by the parable of the prodigal son. It doesn't seem like you agree with that line of thinking by the way you have been speaking here lately. It seems like Free Grace or OSAS is what you really believe.

We seek to battle. But seeking to battle isn't really battling, is it? It means you're trying not to sin. Not that you're not sinning. If you weren't sinning then you wouldn't be seeking to battle something that doesn't exist.

You have to prepare for battle before you can fight. That is what I meant by seek to battle. The way we prepare for battle is putting on the whole armor of God. Many self professing Christians today make it appear like they cannot even be bothered with putting on their armor. They all appear to be too busy focusing on how they are saved by Jesus despite what they do.

And just how hard are you really seeking? Afterall you just said:

Well, if that was the case, then I wouldn't be concerned in promoting obedience to God's Word, right? I presented a list of Scriptural points in how to overcome mortal sin. Yet, you have stated how the list of mortal sins is too long (implying it is impossible to keep God's commands). This would fall in favor of the Free Grace and OSAS line of thinking.

Do you make a list of sins you think in your deceitful heart are the only sins you commit and repent of them, but leave out sins your deceitful heart doesn't see as sin but God does?

Why would you accuse me of such a thing without any evidence? You don't know my heart, thoughts, or life. You are not God to know such things. All mortal sins that are listed in God's Word should be obeyed by all.

Do you think you're living a righteous life like the publican did?

The tax collector in the “Parable of the Tax Collector” was not an example of a seasoned believer who was walking with God in the Spirit and by God's power. The tax collector is an example of a new convert or a new believer learning to put away his mortal sin out of his life by the power of God. By no means does this parable teach that the tax collector had a mindset that he would sin the next day or the next week or month as a matter of fact. You have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word. Believers can overcome mortal sin (See: 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, Romans 13:14, 2 Corinthians 7:1, John 5:14, John 8:11).

God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

The problem with the Pharisee in the “Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee” was that he was not coming to God's grace as the basis and foundation of his salvation. The Jews sought not righteousness by faith, but by works of the Law (i.e. Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace) (See: Romans 9:30-32). So there was no grace. That was the point of the parable. Jesus was rebuking the Pharisee's false man made religous belief of Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace.

 

[ozso]

Why would you accuse me of such a thing without any evidence? You don't know my heart, thoughts, or life. You are not God to know such things. All mortal sins that are listed in God's Word should be obeyed by all.

I was speaking to the audience ie collective you. I was asking anyone reading. And it was more of a rhetorical question used to make a point and to ponder. What I was saying is there's sin that you/one might unwittingly not confess. Maybe because it's not on your/their list of what they consider to be a sin.

Also I will question what you're saying to 1. get a better grasp of it and 2. so the audience reading the thread can get a better grasp of it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I AM NOT PREACHING FREE GRACE or OSAS. It seems like talking with you has been pointless so far because you have been going by a FALSE PRESUMPTION.

I said before that "I am not a Free Grace proponent". Just because I am questioning and examining something, doesn't mean that I am for it or against it.

How can you not be for or against something that the Bible clearly condemns?
It's obvious from reading Scripture that Free Grace and or OSAS is unbiblical big time.
If OSAS was true, then you can live like the devil and or justify sin on some level and still be saved.
For OSAS is saying that once you are saved, you can never become unsaved by anything you do.
However, some OSAS folk will say that you will live a holy life and you will not justify sin. But when I talk with some of them, they said that a believer can commit a sin, and then can get hit by a bus without confessing of such a sin and they will still be saved (Which is a license for immorality).

Here's another video. This is someone I've listened to and interacted with on numerous occasions for over ten years. He's one of my most go to teachers.

If my research on Steve Gregg is accurate and up to date: Steve Gregg appears to be a Partial Preterist. He appears to believe the antichrist was a person of the past, and not yet future, but yet he believes in a 2nd coming of Christ. He appears to have been remarried after his wife left him (Which I do not think is possible unless the previous spouse was dead). Based on this comic from his website, he believes in Eternal Security. Yet, the apostle Paul said, “But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (1 Corinthians 9:27).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was speaking to the audience ie collective you. I was asking anyone reading. And it was more of a rhetorical question used to make a point and to ponder.

You need to clarify that then next time. Usually when you quote a person's post by name, you are talking to them when you say, “you.” If I want to address everyone on the forums, I address my post as saying, “To all” or “To anyone who has ears to hear:”, etc.

Also I will question what you're saying to 1. get a better grasp of it and 2. so the audience reading the thread can get a better grasp of it.

What was #1, and #2?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I remember a long time ago I was listening to a call-in radio show called "To Every Man an Answer" hosted by Mike Kestler and Leo Giovinetti. And this young man called in sobbing "I think I've lost my salvation!" and immediately they both simultaneously said "you haven't lost salvation!" without even hearing what he had done. And I know that Mike at least believes that you can lose your salvation.

And I wondered at first how those two could make such a snap judgement. But then I realized they had reasoned that if he had actually lost his salvation, he wouldn't be crying his eyes out over whatever he did, and wouldn't be worried about his salvation. I can't remember what his sin was, but I'm pretty sure it was the kind of sin only a saved person would cry his eyes out over that way.

There are Free Will Baptists. They believe that you can reject Jesus and lose your salvation that way, but they don't believe you can lose salvation via by committing ordinary sin. They believe you can sin and still be saved.

Judas most likely cried in his sorrow in betraying Jesus, but he did not have a godly sorrow, but a wordly sorrow. Judas hanged himself and I doubt very much he was saved. Just because people cry over their sin does not mean they are saved. They need to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, and vow to never do that sin again. Meaning, they cannot think to themselves that they will commit mortal sin again as a matter of fact as many in the church today teach.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's not the point I was trying to make. I was emphasizing the necessity of the cleansing shed blood of our Lord and Saviour to make us acceptable in the eyes of God. Any idea that gives one a licence to sin is a lie.

Many Christians today teach that if a believer commits a sin (mortal sin), and they do not confess of it, and they get hit by a bus and die before confessing of such a sin, they are still saved. I believe this is teaching a license to sin. For how is this any different than committing lots of sin under God's grace? Justifying sin under God's grace starts with one sin. For the entire human race had fallen into sin via by Adam's one time sin.

 

[ozso]

How can you not be for or against something that the Bible clearly condemns?
It's obvious from reading Scripture that Free Grace and or OSAS is unbiblical big time.
If OSAS was true, then you can live like the devil and or justify sin on some level and still be saved.
For OSAS is saying that once you are saved, you can never become unsaved by anything you do.
However, some OSAS folk will say that you will live a holy life and you will not justify sin. But when I talk with some of them, they said that they believe that a believer can commit a sin, and then can get hit by a bus without confessing of such a sin and they will be saved (Which is a license for immorality).

There are many Christians who have been diligently studying the scriptures for decades who would consider your view unbiblical. They would say that you're not rightly dividing the word. And I mean those who are not Free Grace or OSAS.

Your message seems to be that Christians have one foot in hell and the other on a banana peel.

If my research on Steve Gregg is accurate and up to date: Steve Gregg appears to be a Partial Preterist. He appears to believe the antichrist was a person of the past, and not yet future, but yet he believes in a 2nd coming of Christ. He appears to have been remarried after his wife left him (Which I do not think is possible unless the previous spouse was dead). Based on this comic from his website, he believes in Eternal Security. Yet, the apostle Paul said, “But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (1 Corinthians 9:27).

All that's gemane is Steve Gregg's view regarding justifying faith. My point was that I don't just listen to free grace teachers. He does not believe in eternal security whatsoever.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right now at this very moment there are skateboarders outside my window below and I'm irritated by the noise they're making and I'm hoping they go away soon.

Instead of being up in my apartment, I should be down there in the street preaching the gospel to them.

And right now at this very moment it sounds like they're gone, which means I neglected to go down to them in time, which means I don't really love them enough.

And right now at this very moment there's probably a homeless man out there on the sidewalk, and I'm not going to go down to him to invite him into my apartment, which means I don't really love him enough.

How is it that every second I'm up in my apartment, enjoying its comforts, while there's a homeless man out there living on the sidewalk, I'm not exactly like the rich man in Luke 16:19-31?

I could use the excuse that at the old downtown hotel I live in, it's forbidden to do that.

But if I'm not willing to get evicted for him, that means I don't love him enough to lay down my life for him.

I could probably go on at length about how I'm sinning right now at this very moment.

We have to be faithful to God's commands to the best of our ability.
While it is good to heed every opportunity we can for God's kingdom, we can spread the gospel, and help the poor in other ways that are easier for us. The point is being faithful (or fruitful) over a few things.

“His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

But we learn that the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness.

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

So neglecting to help the poor at all in this life, and or neglecting to let others know about salvation in Jesus in this life is definitely a major problem for a believer (See: Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are many Christians who have been diligently studying the scriptures for decades who would consider your view unbiblical. They would say that you're not rightly dividing the word. And I mean those who are not Free Grace or OSAS.

Your message seems to be that Christians have one foot in hell and the other on a banana peel.

I am merely a messenger and declaring what His Word plainly says.
I am nothing, and Christ is everything.
We can have an assurance that we know God if we keep His commandments (1 John 2:3).
Knowing God is eternal life (John 17:3).

All that's gemane is Steve Gregg's view regarding justifying faith. My point was that I don't just listen to free grace teachers. He does not believe in eternal security whatsoever.

Did you read the comic that was from his website? It mentions Eternal Security.

 

[ozso]

We have to be faithful to God's commands to the best of our ability.

Yes exactly. To the best of one's ability. That and, if "they seek to battle in overcoming these kinds of sins in this life".

You're difficult to figure understand because you say things like that, but also come off to me as sounding like you are setting the bar much higher than that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes exactly. To the best of one's ability. That and, if "they seek to battle in overcoming these kinds of sins in this life".

You're difficult to figure understand because you say things like that, but also come off to me as sounding like you are setting the bar much higher than that.

I don't know precisely God's bar of loving Him, and others in regards to salvation. What I do know is that we have to be faithful over a few things in loving God and others so as to make it. We cannot be unprofitable servants according to Matthew 25:21. So my encouragement is to love God and others with all our power and strength. We cannot justify even one sin and or say that God's mortal sins are too long to even figure out. That would be a position or mindset of disboedience and not one of obedience to God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes exactly. To the best of one's ability. That and, if "they seek to battle in overcoming these kinds of sins in this life".

You're difficult to figure understand because you say things like that, but also come off to me as sounding like you are setting the bar much higher than that.

We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). But many today are teaching the exact opposite of that. They say you can sin and still be saved. Even you had said that within this thread. You basically said we can sin and still be saved as long as we hate our sin. But that does not equate with giving up one's mortal sin. For if a person is still holding on to their mortal sin in this life, they are loving that sin regardless if they deceived themselves that they hate such a sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

The problem with Free Grace, and OSAS is that it justifies that we can sin and still be saved on some level. One can even deny OSAS and still be for a sin and still be saved type belief. Free Will Baptists fit into this kind of belief. So it's not just OSAS or Free Grace alone that is the problem. The heart of the problem is justifying sin under God's grace according to God's Holy Word. Note: When I say one justifies sin, this is the mindset that one will always commit mortal sin in this life, and or they believe they are saved if they did not get a chance to confess of a mortal sin before they died.