Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

[SilverBear]

Racists have no passages of scripture.

sure they do, you just don't acknowledge them

 

[coffee4u]

sure they do, you just don't acknowledge them

And I asked you to provide some verses supporting racism. Which you have failed to do because there are none.

The verse I gave plainly states homosexuals- meaning practicing it. There is a difference between an emotion and doing.

If you have no Biblical backup to your position then it isn't a Biblical position but just what you think. This isn't about what people think, it's about the Bible and the position God takes. I feel very sorry for anyone dealing with attraction to the same sex, but they don't get an out or special treatment. It's no different than fornication by a straight couple. It's all sexual sin.

 

[Ophiolite]

They are making a claim that the Bible teaches racism, I think it's fair that they show where.
They are the ones likening Racism to being against homosexuality, when it's not the same thing at all. Any sexual act outside of marriage is a sin, being white or black or brown, is not.

I have boldened the key phrase. I think it's fair you show where they make that claim. This seems to be the pertinent quote:

This is what racists do, they justify their prejudice with the bible.

No assertion there that "the Bible teaches racism". Just the claim that we all seem to agree on: some people have used the Bible to justify racism.

I'm sorry to keep going on about this, but you do appear to be mistaken.

 

[SilverBear]

And I asked you to provide some verses supporting racism. Which you have failed to do because there are none.

Post # 344

and your response: "Since I can see the man is in error from his very first sentence I have read enough about him."

The verse I gave plainly states homosexuals- meaning practicing it. There is a difference between an emotion and doing.

you gave 1 Cor 6:9-11 which doesn't plainly state anything about homosexuals. The very modern inclusion of homosexual in that passage is based on an unsupported translation of arsenokoites. No one knows what the word means and over the centuries has been translated to mean anything and everything from masturbation to kidnapping to employing a prostitute

If you have no Biblical backup to your position then it isn't a Biblical position but just what you think. This isn't about what people think, it's about the Bible and the position God takes. I feel very sorry for anyone dealing with attraction to the same sex, but they don't get an out or special treatment. It's no different than fornication by a straight couple. It's all sexual sin.

what special treatment?

 

[Strathos]

People can and have used the Bible to justify all manner of things.

 

[hedrick]

And I asked you to provide some verses supporting racism. Which you have failed to do because there are none.

The verse I gave plainly states homosexuals- meaning practicing it. There is a difference between an emotion and doing.

You might have asked that, but doing so wasn't relevant. The point wasn't texts that were actually racist, but texts that people thought were racist.

The point was that Christians have a history of reading into the Bible things that aren't there. It's not that there are verses that actually support racism, but that people saw it. I gave examples of the exegesis they used.

The goal is to learn from the past. We now see that the Bible doesn't support racism, though we see that mostly because our culture has changed, not because racists suddenly developed improved exegesis. A prudent person would look at the exegetical errors made by racists, and try to make sure that we aren't making similar errors now, because our culture has other distortions. (While liberal parts of the US now support LGBT, the local culture in which many conservatives grew up opposed it to a nearly irrational degree.)

 

[coffee4u]

You might have asked that, but doing so wasn't relevant. The point wasn't texts that were actually racist, but texts that people thought were racist.

The point was that Christians have a history of reading into the Bible things that aren't there. It's not that there are verses that actually support racism, but that people saw it. I gave examples of the exegesis they used.

The goal is to learn from the past. We now see that the Bible doesn't support racism, though we see that mostly because our culture has changed, not because racists suddenly developed improved exegesis. A prudent person would look at the exegetical errors made by racists, and try to make sure that we aren't making similar errors now, because our culture has other distortions. (While liberal parts of the US now support LGBT, the local culture in which many conservatives grew up opposed it to a nearly irrational degree.)

People can claim that any book teaches anything. So what? What the book actually teaches is what is important. If we are going to hold up "these people claim the Bible teaches racism" as some big deal then lets also hold up "Evolution teaches racism" -The Nazi's.

Anyway I have said everything that I have to say on this thread. The point of which wasn't racism or slavery.

Immorality is a sin, not a life style.

 

[The Ant]

People can claim that any book teaches anything. So what? What the book actually teaches is what is important. If we are going to hold up "these people claim the Bible teaches racism" as some big deal then lets also hold up "Evolution teaches racism" -The Nazi's.

Anyway I have said everything that I have to say on this thread. The point of which wasn't racism or slavery.

Immorality is a sin, not a life style.

What did Jesus say about homosexuality?

 

[coffee4u]

Jesus is the Word of God.
John 1:1-14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Bible is Jesus's speaking to us.

Jesus told us about the women caught in adultery as an example of how we should react.
John 8
3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”


11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Jesus very cleverly made the crowd look at their own sin. Showing that sin is sin. Just because their sins were something different didn't make them better than her.

But at the same time he didn't say "Keep doing what you are doing, I think it's great" He said "Go and sin no more". He still called it sin and he told her to stop committing it.
Likewise if the God's word lists something as sin, I will call it sin.

God says that when we sin sexually we are sinning against ourselves.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
I take that to mean in some way this damages us; physically, emotionally and or spiritually. I believe all of what calls us to do is for our benefit.

 

[The Ant]

Jesus is the Word of God.
John 1:1-14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Bible is Jesus's speaking to us.

Jesus told us about the women caught in adultery as an example of how we should react.
John 8
3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”


11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Jesus very cleverly made the crowd look at their own sin. Showing that sin is sin. Just because their sins were something different didn't make them better than her.

But at the same time he didn't say "Keep doing what you are doing, I think it's great" He said "Go and sin no more". He still called it sin and he told her to stop committing it.
Likewise if the God's word lists something as sin, I will call it sin.

God says that when we sin sexually we are sinning against ourselves.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
I take that to mean in some way this damages us; physically, emotionally and or spiritually. I believe all of what calls us to do is for our benefit.

What did Jesus say about homosexuality?

 

[Kylie]

What did Jesus say about homosexuality?

Not a single thing, I believe.

 

[The Ant]

Not a single thing, I believe.

Thank you Kylie. That was the answer I was looking for. One that the Coffee man seemed reluctant to provide.

ALL of the statements made in the Bible concerning homosexuality are made by everyday men. Just like those who rail against it now.

 

[Rajni]

I'm talking about tolerance, not respect. If you can't adhere to a principle of non-injury to others who have different religious values from you, you are the one being forceful and aggressive.

Affirmation of sinful behavior is sin. Also, disagreeing with you is not "injury".

No one has proven that it's sinful to begin with, however.

 

[FredVB]

I cannot prove it is sinful. I still cannot see how certain Bible verses are saying something different other than it is sinful. What could those verses mean other than that?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I cannot prove it is sinful. I still cannot see how certain Bible verses are saying something different other than it is sinful. What could those verses mean other than that?

It's sin. The Bible is clear. People who are saved will leave such a lifestyle behind, like any other new Christian comes with baggage and loses it in short order as they are renewed and conformed to the image of Christ. Usually major stuff goes first.

 

[Kylie]

I cannot prove it is sinful. I still cannot see how certain Bible verses are saying something different other than it is sinful. What could those verses mean other than that?

In any of those passages, was it Jesus speaking?

 

[stevevw]

I think the bible is clear about the relationship between a man and women, husband and wife. It talks about them becoming one in a number of ways. That they were made to be together and compliment each other. They become one when they procreate and create a child who is made from them both. They become one physically when they are joined together in the act of sexual intercourse. Paul mentions this in 1 Corinthians 6:16 when he talks about a man being with a prostitute that they become one flesh in the act of sex.

16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

So it is clear that male and female (husband and wife) are made for each other and are made to procreate. The bible has many verses along these lines.

 

[Kylie]

I think the bible is clear about the relationship between a man and women, husband and wife. It talks about them becoming one in a number of ways. That they were made to be together and compliment each other. They become one when they procreate and create a child who is made from them both. They become one physically when they are joined together in the act of sexual intercourse. Paul mentions this in 1 Corinthians 6:16 when he talks about a man being with a prostitute that they become one flesh in the act of sex.

16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

So it is clear that male and female (husband and wife) are made for each other and are made to procreate. The bible has many verses along these lines.

Do you think that procreation is the only purpose of sex?

 

[stevevw]

Do you think that procreation is the only purpose of sex?

Of course not.

 

[Kylie]

Of course not.

Do you think people who do not wish to procreate but still want to have sex should be allowed to have sex?