Atlantis Found

[Kylie]

your not accepting … is not a refutation

Your acceptance of faith is not proof.

yes faith is good


faith itself is evidence

No it isn't. Having all the faith in the world isn't going to change reality.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Having all the faith in the world isn't going to change reality.

having faith changes your knowledge of reality

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

having faith changes your knowledge of reality

Not by the standard definitions, although it may well change what you believe is reality, or knowledge of reality.

Knowledge is generally taken to be justified true belief, i.e. it must be true, and there must be a sound justification (i.e. good evidence) for believing it. Of course, we can never be absolutely certain something is true, so the emphasis is on the strength of the justification.

Faith, at best, does not have justification - it is belief without good evidence, and so its truth must necessarily be uncertain.

Just sayin'.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Faith … does not have justification - it is belief without good evidence

you don't understand faith

 

[Bungle_Bear]

how would you demonstrate this?

Examples already given and ignored.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Examples already given and ignored.

the details match perfectly


your perception is affected by doubt

 

[JohnEmmett]

Definition of doubt

an inclination not to believe or accept

 

[Bungle_Bear]

the details match perfectly

Denial and untruths do not change facts.

your perception is affected by doubt

Indeed, that's why I questioned the "evidence". On investigation it turns out I'm still right and you're still wrong.

 

[JohnEmmett]

…

have you seen the 3 videos?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

you don't understand faith

I know what the word means.

 

[JohnEmmett]

I know …

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[JohnEmmett]

youtu.be/U5kEzxOb-3c?t=460

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Exactly as I said - the substance of things hoped for is unknown, the evidence of 'things not seen' is absent; i.e. there is no good evidence for either, thus no justification and no knowledge.

The faith described in Hebrews 11:1 can be paraphrased as 'wishful thinking'.

 

[JohnEmmett]

'wishful thinking'.

youtu.be/U5kEzxOb-3c?t=460

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

view the video link above

Been there, done that. Ancient maps with question-marked names are speculative.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Been there, done that. Ancient maps with question-marked names are speculative.

then your doubt is opaque

 

[Kylie]

having faith changes your knowledge of reality

No, it changes your perception of reality. There's a very important difference.

One's perception of reality may not be correct. In order to know if it is correct, you need evidence from reality to support that perception, and that evidence from reality is precisely the thing that you are missing.

 

[Strathos]

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Atlantis = fable.

 

[JohnEmmett]

No

with faith, you would see evidence


without faith, you would not see evidence


this is the truth, nothing but the truth

 

[JohnEmmett]

Atlantis = fable.

Bible = fables

“a short tale to teach a moral lesson, often with animals or inanimate objects as characters.”