Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?

[robycop3]

I see you have already chosen your side. It does not matter what I say. It does not matter what evidence I bring forth. You will see what you want to see. Good luck with that. I will trust in God's Holy Word plainly in what it says instead of seeking to make my own Word of God. For many in the OAO camp are just correcting the Bible, when it should correct them. But believe whatever you want, I am moving on.

So have a great day, and may God bless you.

Of course, you wanna move on, as you realize most posters here know the TRUTH, & have moved on from an outdated version with a number of goofs & booboos, to versions in MODERN language & most of the goofs corrected.

Not trying to be smart-aleck, but you brought nothing to the table that'd convince anyone to become KJVO. You could NOT counter the KJV's proven goofs, the KJVO myth's lacka Scriptural support, & you showed you don't even know the name of your pet version, which is "King James VERSION"(KJV), not "King James Bible".(KJB)

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The AV makers wrote in their preface that "therefore, as St. Augustine saith, that variety of translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the scriptures."

Those men went on in their preface to say that they obviously could use only one word or set of words for a given translation, they thus made their choices, but their choices were not set in stone.

They also wrote in that preface that they believed that even the meanest (poorest) translations were still the word of God.

That preface is conveniently (for KJVOs) left outta most current KJV editions. I highly recommend that all English-using Christians, KJVO or not, read it carefully, & they'll see that not even the AV makers were supporters of the KJVO myth.

I would be interested if you posted it robo. thanks !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am moving on because there is no truth in the OAO (Original Autograph Only) Position, and or the Modern Translation position. We know that both Jesus, and the Word (Scripture) is truth. But if that truth is mingled with errors like in Modern Translations, then it is no longer a pure truth, but a tainted truth. If one is seeking to figure out what His Word says through the original languages, then one does not really possess truth in their hands that they can just simply read and believe right now. Truth is not simple and even seems like an endless impossible quest to find. They have to jump through hoops and figure out that truth by looking at Lexicons and pray and hope that the scholars they are believing got it right. By this seeking out a Lexicon, there is still uncertainty of not knowing the truth fully because the apostle Paul, or Moses is not around to correct our wrong interpretation or understanding on the original languages. But if one enjoys such a way, by all means, knock yourself out. I have the truth not only living on the inside of me (JESUS), but I also possess that truth 100% in the fact that I can hold it in my hands every day (The King James Bible).

But keep up the insults. Do you really think the Lord will reward you for such things? You may respectifully disagree, but when I choose to discuss this topic, I am smeared with insults for what I believe is truth. A better approach is to convince me of your position with Scripture. But so far in these kinds of debates, I never really seen that happen before in over 10 years.

In any event, peace and blessings be unto you all (even if we disagree).

 

[Strong in Him]

I see you have already chosen your side. It does not matter what I say. It does not matter what evidence I bring forth.

You haven't brought forth any evidence.
I was discussing Psalm 12 with you and looking at what those verses mean in context. I'm not accepting that 2 verses taken out of context mean hat you say that they mean - you say you're an evidence sort of guy; look at the evidence.

You've chosen to respond to my words on Psalm 12 with "well you've chosen your side; it doesn't matter what I say".
Sorry, but that doesn't tell me that you are someone who is willing to look at Scriptures in context, discuss and maybe learn something more of God's word. That sounds more like someone who doesn't like having their argument challenged and changes the subject.

I will trust in God's Holy Word plainly in what it says instead of seeking to make my own Word of God.

But you can't see that by taking 2 verses out of context and giving them your own meaning, you are doing just that.
As I said, you are assuming that the word "them" refers to the words of God mentioned in the previous verse. I don't believe it does, but even if it does and I am wrong, that's still a long way from saying that God will preserve a perfect Bible for future generations, which is the KJV.

But believe whatever you want, I am moving on.

Ditto.
I don't read the KJV, yet I, and many others, are just as much children of God as you are.
That's the important thing.

 

[Strong in Him]

Just google "AV 1611 preface" & you should see a number of sites that have the original preface, word-for-word.

Thank you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You haven't brought forth any evidence.
I was discussing Psalm 12 with you and looking at what those verses mean in context. I'm not accepting that 2 verses taken out of context mean hat you say that they mean - you say you're an evidence sort of guy; look at the evidence.

You've chosen to respond to my words on Psalm 12 with "well you've chosen your side; it doesn't matter what I say".
Sorry, but that doesn't tell me that you are someone who is willing to look at Scriptures in context, discuss and maybe learn something more of God's word. That sounds more like someone who doesn't like having their argument challenged and changes the subject.



But you can't see that by taking 2 verses out of context and giving them your own meaning, you are doing just that.
As I said, you are assuming that the word "them" refers to the words of God mentioned in the previous verse. I don't believe it does, but even if it does and I am wrong, that's still a long way from saying that God will preserve a perfect Bible for future generations, which is the KJV.



Ditto.
I don't read the KJV, yet I, and many others, are just as much children of God as you are.
That's the important thing.

Funny. All my evidence can be seen in this thread that you debated with me before.

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today

Of course you rejected this evidence because like I said, you have chosen your side and any evidence put forth is immediately rejected out of hand. I have not seen once a person defend the OAO (Original Autograph Only) Position, or their defending the Many Modern Translations Position by the use of Scripture. You would think that if these positions have any merit, they could be defended with God's Word. For where do we see in Scripture that we must go back to an ancient more superior language in order to understand His Word? Where in Scripture do we see the apostles comparing various different translations of the Torah and saying that they are all the Word of God (despite their being errors or mistakes in them)? We don't. So these positions are completely fabricated and unbiblical.

 

[Strong in Him]

Funny. All my evidence can be seen in this thread that you debated with me before.

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today

Like I said, it's not evidence.
They are just arguments out forward by you which, according to you, show that the KJV is perfect; the only perfect Bible.

Evidence would be:
- passages provided in the Greek, the KJV and all other translations, which show that the KJV agrees with the Greek and EVERY other translation is wrong. We would then be forced to admit that the KJV was the most accurate, with regards to those particular passages.
This is an easy opportunity to say "see, the KJV is more accurate; here's the proof."
You can't provide that. Whenever anyone talks about the Greek/Hebrew, you bad mouth the translators and accuse everyone else of worshipping lexicons or education.
- evidence that Jesus and the disciples used the KJV.
You can't provide that.
- Scriptures which say in black and white that a perfect version of the Bible will be produced, which will be called the KJV.
You can't provide such Scripture - only 2 out of context verses from one of the Psalms which you claim say this.

Of course you rejected this evidence because like I said, you have chosen your side and any evidence put forth is immediately rejected out of hand.

And you've rejected all logical arguments, plus the indisputable statements that the Gospel is the same in ALL bibles, and people who read the NIV/RSV/GNB/NASB etc are just as much Christians as you are.

You love the KJV. You value it, think it's special and would read nothing else, (even though you sometimes use the "tainted versions" to help you to understand what the KJV is saying.) You would even die for the KJV.
We get it.
Don't stop reading the Bible which helps you to grow in your faith.

But don't try to imply that the rest of us do not read God's word, read it in an inferior version, or indeed are inferior Christians.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To those who reject a perfect Bible is in existence for today:

Do you believe that the Bible is your final authority in all matters of faith and practice?
If so, which one is it?

Most OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponents or Modern Translation Folk do not realize that they are defending a line of manuscripts that come from Alexandria, Egypt. If you know anything about Egypt in the Bible, you know that Egypt is referred to as predominantly in a negative way. In Deuteronomy 17:16, Israel is told not to go back to Egypt to multiply horses for themselves. So if God is not telling us to go back to Egypt to get a horse because it is a bad place, then we should not be going there to get a Bible.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

To those who reject a perfect Bible is in existence for today:

Do you believe that the Bible is your final authority in all matters of faith and practice?
If so, which one is it?

Most OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponents or Modern Translation Folk do not realize that they are defending a line of manuscripts that come from Alexandria, Egypt. If you know anything about Egypt in the Bible, you know that Egypt is referred to as predominantly in a negative way. In Deuteronomy 17:16, Israel is told not to go back to Egypt to multiply horses for themselves. So if God is not telling us to go back to Egypt to get a horse because it is a bad place, then we should not be going there to get a Bible.

No, I believe God is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice.

 

[Strong in Him]

Most OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponents or Modern Translation Folk do not realize that they are defending a line of manuscripts that come from Alexandria, Egypt. If you know anything about Egypt in the Bible, you know that Egypt is referred to as predominantly in a negative way. In Deuteronomy 17:16, Israel is told not to go back to Egypt to multiply horses for themselves. So if God is not telling us to go back to Egypt to get a horse because it is a bad place, then we should not be going there to get a Bible.

Oh please!
Please go and learn something about Bible exegesis, reading and understanding Scripture before you make such comments.

 

[robycop3]

To those who reject a perfect Bible is in existence for today:

Do you believe that the Bible is your final authority in all matters of faith and practice?
If so, which one is it?

Most OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponents or Modern Translation Folk do not realize that they are defending a line of manuscripts that come from Alexandria, Egypt. If you know anything about Egypt in the Bible, you know that Egypt is referred to as predominantly in a negative way. In Deuteronomy 17:16, Israel is told not to go back to Egypt to multiply horses for themselves. So if God is not telling us to go back to Egypt to get a horse because it is a bad place, then we should not be going there to get a Bible.

OK, Sir, please tell us which Bible edition is perfect, in your opinion.

We can rule out the KJV because of its PROVEN goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4 & the ADDITION of the words "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5.

Is the NKJV perfect Why or why not ? It does not have the KJV's goofs.

How about the NASV ?

The ESV ?

 

[Strong in Him]

OK, Sir, please tell us which Bible edition is perfect, in your opinion.

Nice try; but in his opinion it's the KJV.
He's staked his life on it, so he can't say anything else.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, I believe God is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice.

It is written:

“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4).​

The Bible are the words of God. It is why it is called the Word of God.
Tell me, do you believe that men and women of God can live by EVERY word that proceeds out of the mouth of God?

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

Paul said to the Thessalonians that they received the words from them (him, and the apostles) not as the words of men, but in fact as the very word of God (Which works in them who believe).

“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).​

The letters that Paul wrote to Thessalonians would be additional to what he and the apostles said to them before. For the Thessalonians regarded their words as the very words of God (Which worked in them that believe). Paul spoke the Word of God and his writings are inspired Scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So the BIBLE is the very words of GOD to us today. Do you believe that you must live by EVERY word of God? If so, how can you do that if you believe there are errors in all bibles? How can you do that if you did not grow up speaking biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek? What is the purpose of Modern Translations if you truly know these languages? How do you know you have the right line of manuscripts? Is the Alexandrian Egypt line of manuscripts more superior than the Textus Receptus line of manuscripts? If so, shouldn't the doctrines be better in the one leading you to that conclusion?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again, all Modern Translations come from the Alexandrian Egypt line of manuscripts. Egypt is bad according to the Bible. Most scholars today favor this line of manuscripts to do their Hebrew and Greek re-interpretation or understanding on the Bible. They are forever on a quest to try and find what God's Word is trying to say and they will never finish. They forever trying to figure out what His Word says in some dead languages that they do not intimately know (as if they grew up in that time period and or culture). They cannot hold a perfect Bible in their hands right now like they can with the King James Bible (Which comes from the Antiochian line of manuscriptus, i.e. the Textus Receptus).

There are only two major line of manuscripts in use primarily today.
The Textus Receptus line (KJB) (Antiochian) (i.e. Antioch is where Christians were first called Christians), and then there is the Egyptian (Alexandrian) line of manuscripts where all the Modern Translations come from. Egypt is predominatly spoken of in a negative light the Holy Bible.

Isaiah 34:16 says, “Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.”

Notice that the Bible tells us to simply to, “Seek you out the book of the Lord, and read”
If you come to the Hebrew and Greek, it is not a book that you can just seek and just read it.
You need someone to re-interpret it for you, or you need to learn dead languages in order to understand it. You cannot just, “Seek ye out the book of the Lord, and read.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not telling folks not to look at the Hebrew, and the Greek.
I am not telling folks not to use Modern Translations.
But a person needs to have a final Word of authority in a language that it is close to their own language. The original languages cannot fit the bill on this because no person today on the planet is alive from that time period who still speaks, and writes these languages like those in that particular time period did. For I believe if Moses, and the apostle Paul were alive today, they would be rebuking and correcting scholars and their understanding of these languages. In my humble opinion, it is arrogance to assume that we can 100% know dead Bible languages on the same level that those people back in Bible times did.

Only one Bible can be the Word of GOD.
Only one Bible can be perfect.
Only one Bible is where we build our authority upon for all matters of faith and practice. This Bible has to exist in where we can hold it in our hands and read it point to it and say this is the perfect Bible, and I am willing to lay my life down for it.

I believe this perfect Bible is the King James Bible because of the many evidences that back it up in that it is the Word of God. Biblical Numerics, History, the purity of doctrine, and so much more is just a few of the evidences in defense that the KJB is the pure Word of God for today. It may not be in an easy to read English, but that is why 2 Timothy 2:15 says to study to show yourself approved unto God. But 2 Timothy 2:15 is altered to say something else in your Modern Translation. Again, there is an agenda by the enemy. That agenda by the enemy is to corrupt God's holy words. To assume there is not an attack on God's Word would be silly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Trying to discuss and debate the Bible in English is difficult enough here on the forums. I have quoted the Bible in English many times to people (both in person and online), and they still cannot see what that verse or passage says in the English. This is because it is a spiritual issue. So why make it harder in trying to go to some dead biblical language that nobody today can read and understand if it was read in a classroom openly. See, this all goes back to Rome. The high priests were the only ones who could understand God's Holy Word. So only those in higher education in Bible colleges can truly understand the Bible because they studied the original Hebrew, and Greek. But they do not really know these languages. It's a sham. They are just relying upon what scholars say about these languages, and not all scholars agree, either. There are many definitions for just one word.

The person who corrects the Bible and says it has an error in it, and then they tell them the original meaning of that word is correcting what God's Word plainly says. Yet, to the unlearned, they look smart and highly educated. This is a repeat of Rome. The high priests were the only ones who could intrepret God's Word. They looked smart while the rest of the people were dumb and they needed to be educated. But God is simple. He called Peter who was a fishermen, and he did not call the scribes or the scholars. In fact, Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who TRAN-scribe the Scriptures. So this means we have to beware of the scholar and not implicitly trust them.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

It is written:

“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4).​

The Bible are the words of God. It is why it is called the Word of God.
Tell me, do you believe that men and women of God can live by EVERY word that procceeds out of the mouth of God?

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

Paul said to the Thessalonians that they received the words from them (him, and the apostles) not as the words of men, but in fact as the very word of God (Which works in them who believe).

“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).​

The letters that Paul wrote to Thessalonians would be addition to what he and the apostles said to them before. For the Thessalonians regarded their words as the very words of God (Which worked in them that believe). Paul spoke the Word of God and his writings are inspired Scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So the BIBLE is the very words of GOD to us today. Do you believe that you must live by EVERY word of God? If so, how can you do that if you believe there are errors in all bibles? How can you do that if you did not grow up speaking biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek? What is the purpose of Modern Translations if you truly know these languages? How do you know you have the right line of manuscripts? Is the Alexandrian Egypt line of manuscripts more superior than the Textus Receptus line of manuscripts? If so, shouldn't the doctrines be better in the one leading you to that conclusion?

In this very topic you can see people look at the exact same psalm in the exact same translation and come to different interpretations about the meaning and application of the word “them” so if you don’t actually believe God is the final authority rather than the scriptures I can’t imagine having any hope beyond endless human debate over how to interpret the scriptures.

That’s what the Pharisees did. I believe we have to have faith in God to guide us toward understanding, that the scriptures are profitable to show us the nature of God and the human condition, the truth of creation and the Gospel, but the point is to live by the Word, the Way, the Lord Christ Jesus, and to have faith that we will join him, and in light of that I just really can not get upset over the idea that one manuscript contains differences from another because the Word is living and engraved on our hearts and someday we will stand before our maker who is able to make his own servants stand.

It’s why I have compassion toward you, it’s why I heard when you wrote that you feel your faith relies on the absolute authority of one translation, and why I don’t want to push you out of your faith in God, but at the same time know that if you’re absolutely wrong about this, it’s God who will judge, not me or anyone else trying to prove a point through application of scripture. And God is the one able to make his servants stand.

God spoke the universe into creation. When we eat bread, the water and flour exist by God’s word. I have nothing against you. I hope that God opens both of our eyes to become ever more perfected day by day.

That’s by the power, authority, and grace of God. God points us to read the scriptures and the scriptures point us toward God. David ate the bread that it was not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and David said blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven. Our sins aren’t forgiven by the scriptures, but by God.

Knowing that, I don’t need to know if I have “the right line of manuscripts” because God judges the heart. My heart isn’t perfectly good. So I’ll trust in mercy over manuscripts and put my hope in God.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

Trying to discuss and debate the Bible in English is difficult enough here on the forums. I have quoted the Bible in English many times to people (both in person and online), and they still cannot see what that verse or passage says in the English. This is because it is a spiritual issue. So why make it harder in trying to go to some dead biblical language that nobody today can read and understand if it was read in a classroom openly. See, this all goes back to Rome. The high priests were the only ones who could understand God's Holy Word. So only those in higher education in Bible colleges can truly understand the Bible because they studied the original Hebrew, and Greek. But they do not really know these languages. It's a sham. They are just relying upon what scholars say about these languages, and not all scholars agree, either. There are many definitions for just one word.

The person who corrects the Bible and says it has an error in it, and then they tell them the original meaning of that word is correcting what God's Word plainly says. Yet, to the unlearned, they look smart and highly educated. This is a repeat of Rome. The high priests were the only ones who could intrepret God's Word. They looked smart while the rest of the people were dumb and they needed to be educated. But God is simple. He called Peter who was a fishermen, and he did not call the scribes or the scholars. In fact, Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who TRAN-scribe the Scriptures. So this means we have to beware of the scholar and not implicitly trust them.

I legitimately do not understand how you can’t see that the KJV was transcribed by scholars. You are literally simultaneously asking people to believe the KJV is the perfect work of God while then turning around and saying they should beware the men who produced it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In this very topic you can see people look at the exact same psalm in the exact same translation and come to different interpretations about the meaning and application of the word “them” so if you don’t actually believe God is the final authority rather than the scriptures I can’t imagine having any hope beyond endless human debate over how to interpret the scriptures.

That’s what the Pharisees did. I believe we have to have faith in God to guide us toward understanding, that the scriptures are profitable to show us the nature of God and the human condition, the truth of creation and the Gospel, but the point is to live by the Word, the Way, the Lord Christ Jesus, and to have faith that we will join him, and in light of that I just really can not get upset over the idea that one manuscript contains differences from another because the Word is living and engraved on our hearts and someday we will stand before our maker who is able to make his own servants stand.

It’s why I have compassion toward you, it’s why I heard when you wrote that you feel your faith relies on the absolute authority of one translation, and why I don’t want to push you out of your faith in God, but at the same time know that if you’re absolutely wrong about this, it’s God who will judge, not me or anyone else trying to prove a point through application of scripture. And God is the one able to make his servants stand.

God spoke the universe into creation. When we eat bread, the water and flour exist by God’s word. I have nothing against you. I hope that God opens both of our eyes to become ever more perfected day by day.

That’s by the power, authority, and grace of God. God points us to read the scriptures and the scriptures point us toward God. David ate the bread that it was not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and David said blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven. Our sins aren’t forgiven by the scriptures, but by God.

Knowing that, I don’t need to know if I have “the right line of manuscripts” because God judges the heart. My heart isn’t perfectly good. So I’ll trust in mercy over manuscripts and put my hope in God.

But faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Not all Modern Bibles say the exact same thing as the KJB. There are subtle differences in Modern Translations that are for the worse, and not for the better by way of comparison to the KJB.
The devil's name is place in Modern Bibles. The one verse that clearly reveals the Trinity is removed (i.e. 1 John 5:7). If I am trying to convince a person who denies the Trinity, then my battle in convincing them of the truth of the Trinity is hindered if use a Modern Bible. Romans 8:1 in the KJB tells us there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Yet, in certain Modern Bibles, walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (in regards to not being under the Condemnation) is removed. So if I am trying to convince a Christian who thinks they can sin and still be saved, and I use a Modern Bible that does not have this whole verse, my fight in trying to convince them of the truth to not sin while under God's grace will be hindered. But with the KJB, I don't have this problem.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

But faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Not all Modern Bibles say the exact same thing as the KJB. There are subtle differences in Modern Translations that are for the worse, and not for the better by way of comparison to the KJB.
The devil's name is place in Modern Bibles. The one verse that clearly reveals the Trinity is removed (i.e. 1 John 5:7). If I am trying to convince a person who denies the Trinity, then my battle in convincing them of the truth of the Trinity is hindered if use a Modern Bible. Romans 8:1 in the KJB tells us there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Yet, in certain Modern Bibles, walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (in regards to not being under the Condemnation) is removed. So if I am trying to convince a Christian who thinks they can sin and still be saved, and I use a Modern Bible that does not have this whole verse, my fight in trying to convince them of the truth to not sin while under God's grace will be hindered. But with the KJB, I don't have this problem.

And if you trust in God you won’t be hindered either because God has the power to open hearts far beyond human argumentation.

If “shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!” isn’t clear then I don’t know how anything less than the Holy Spirit can make it so.