Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?

[a-lily-of-peace]

It seems like the “KJV Only” idea is directly linked to the idea of sola scriptura, trying to reconcile scripture as the only authority with the idea that people interpret scripture differently, translate scripture differently, and even find manuscripts with slight differences in transcription.

May we walk by faith in the grace of God.

 

[GenemZ]

It seems like the “KJV Only” idea is directly linked to the idea of sola scriptura, trying to reconcile scripture as the only authority with the idea that people interpret scripture differently, translate scripture differently, and even find manuscripts with slight differences in transcription.

May we walk by faith in the grace of God.

Actually.... The Hebrew and Greek texts are Sola Scriptura. Martin Luther was a Greek and Hebrew scholar.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

Actually.... The Hebrew and Greek texts are Sola Scriptura. Martin Luther was a Greek and Hebrew scholar.

As far as how it’s interpreted centuries later, I do believe that the two ideas are directly linked. Possibly not what Luther intended, but a result nonetheless, as any Authorised Version by Catholic or Orthodox churches would rely on the authority of the head of the church just as much as King James said he was, but that authority would be accepted by all church members while there are English speaking Christians who aren’t from England and are not under the monarch’s authority.

So this idea now that it in fact is the literal version of scripture which is infallible rather than the authority of the one who authorised it.

 

[GenemZ]

As far as how it’s interpreted centuries later, I do believe that the two ideas are directly linked. Possibly not what Luther intended, but a result nonetheless, as any Authorised Version by Catholic or Orthodox churches would rely on the authority of the head of the church just as much as King James said he was, but that authority would be accepted by all church members while there are English speaking Christians who aren’t from England and are not under the monarch’s authority.

So this idea now that it in fact is the literal version of scripture which is infallible rather than the authority of the one who authorised it.

The Pastor/scholar I am about to mention spent over fifty years comparing the KJV to the Greek and Hebrew texts. Time after time, he explained what the original language said. Eyes were opened in surprise to how the Bible makes complete sense when someone can show what the original intent was.

We desperately need competent teaching today. Most of what we get is really over simplified, and no good for those seeking to mature in Christ.

This pastor used to spend eight hours a day in dedicated study. Then later, an hour of teaching to his congregation every night of the week, except Saturdays. He said he needed one day off to relax and watch the football game, etc... He was totally dedicated to his calling to study and teach.

(All the study material is free of charge)

ROBERT B. THIEME, JR. (1918–2009) remains a significant voice of Christianity throughout the world. His diligent, expository teaching is based on the original languages of Scripture in light of the historical context in
which the Bible was written. His innovative systems of vocabulary,
illustrations, and biblical categories clearly communicate the infallible truths
of God’s Word. Thieme recorded more than eleven thousand hours of
sermons and published more than one hundred books covering much of the
Bible.


Thieme graduated from the University of Arizona (Phi Beta Kappa) and
Dallas Theological Seminary (summa cum laude). His seminary studies
were interrupted by World War II military service during which he rose to
the rank of lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Air Corps. After
completion of his graduate work in 1950, he became pastor of Berachah
Church in Houston, Texas. His extensive training in Greek, Hebrew,
theology, history, and textual criticism provided the foundation for his
demanding professional life of studying and teaching the Word of God.
Thieme retired as pastor of Berachah Church after fifty-three years of
faithful service.​

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

​

grace and peace.......

 

[Strong in Him]

You Tube is not Scripture.

Please show me, from Scripture:
- where Jesus, the Gospel, the resurrection, the Holy Spirit and way of salvation are different in the KJV,
- where these things are correct in the KJV, so that all other translations proclaim a false Jesus and Gospel,
- where the Bible says that the KJV alone is the true version,
- where Jesus exclusively used the KJV.
Please show these differences in doctrine from the Greek Scriptures, and how the KJV agrees with the Greek, while other versions do not.
Please explain why people who use other translations are incorrect, not following Jesus, not blessed by him or filled with his Spirit. (Bearing in mind that it is against forum rules to question someone's salvation.)

Thank you.

 

[sparow]

I believe KJVO is not a true doctrine, as it has no Scriptural support, even in the KJV itself. Anyone wanna try to defend KJVO ?

I agree KJVO is bad doctrine; but the KJV is good, not perfect, as a word for word translation it can only be approximate because there are not exact word equivalents between languages and in word for word translations essential semantics are never considered; I prefer word for word translations because something is preserved in them from the original like rhythm. I prefer the KJV because I know it is good enough in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, some versions are not good enough and would work the Holy Spirit too hard.

 

[HIM]

You got that from what I said?

Yes in closing you said, "No good English translation should require exegesis to an English speaking congregation. Something is terrible wrong if it does."
So this was said, "Hello genez,
Exegesis is a critical explanation or interpretation of a text. Teaching and teachers are a gift from God. By your post here you are saying there is no need for the teachers God has gifted."

Sorry I misunderstood.

Maybe you give the following a hearing.

After learning from him for a while all of a sudden all my reference books leaped to life.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

Thanks but not likely. With my own devotion I don't have much time to fit someone else's in.

 

[robycop3]

The Gipper believes some of the horse feathers written by Alex Hislop in his 1853 book, The Two Babylons. He cannot account for the fact that the KJVO myth is false due to its lack of Scriptural support. He cannot account for the KJV's goofs & booboos that kill the KJVO assertion that the KJV is perfect.

 

[GenemZ]

Thanks but not likely. With my own devotion I don't have much time to fit someone else's in.

As the Spirit leads....

 

[Ancient of Days]

The Gipper believes some of the horse feathers written by Alex Hislop in his 1853 book, The Two Babylons. He cannot account for the fact that the KJVO myth is false due to its lack of Scriptural support. He cannot account for the KJV's goofs & booboos that kill the KJVO assertion that the KJV is perfect.

Ok, so which bible is perfect?

 

[Ancient of Days]

I agree KJVO is bad doctrine; but the KJV is good, not perfect, as a word for word translation it can only be approximate because there are not exact word equivalents between languages and in word for word translations essential semantics are never considered; I prefer word for word translations because something is preserved in them from the original like rhythm. I prefer the KJV because I know it is good enough in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, some versions are not good enough and would work the Holy Spirit too hard.

So which bible is perfect?

 

[GenemZ]

So which bible is perfect?

A walking talking living Bible. A pastor-teacher. One who God brought to the point to growth to know what he is doing to equip the saints for the spiritual warfare.

The early Church had one Bible in each church. The one teaching them. Nobody had Bibles on their lap while listening to the Word of God being taught.

Giving believers Bibles can help them with their curiosity, for times when the pastor comes to teaching something they were wondering about. And, for keeping notes during Bible classes.

If we do not have the gift of pastor-teacher? Reading the Bible for oneself (while avoiding a good church to be taught) will end up in a fiasco for his spiritual life. Bibles are a tool to be taught with. No Bible translation is self explanatory.

After time of being well taught? Then one can use a Bible with some skill to know what they are working with.

No translation is self explanatory. The pastor's job is to dig into the languages the Bible God it written in.

I wish more believers could experience sitting in a Bible class where quality expository teaching is taking place. Its like finding a doctor who knows how to actually cure what ails you.

Too many times the Bible is used from the pulpit to stimulate an emotional response that some people enjoy sharing together as a group. But its not learning knowledge. We need knowledge of the Truth before all else. We need truth ..

 

[Ancient of Days]

And where do you get absolute truth?

 

[GenemZ]

And where do you get absolute truth?

Not in one place. I had been taught by a series of unusual pastors who really knew what they were doing. Its nothing like what we find in a typical mainstream church where the teaching is scripted for an effect. Not all of course. But too many want to please their listeners before pleasing God. For to please God sometimes requires that a pastor anger some of his congregation who refuse to give up traditional false teachings...

After finding several very good pastors I discovered the one who I have been learning from since graduating Bible college in 1981. That's a long time. I still have not heard all that he taught and his congregation kept on record via audio recording.

I will always try to recommend his teaching for anyone who wants to be a serious student of the Bible. A good number of pastors in the USA ordered his messages as reference material for constructing their own messages.

I think its not taking a chance when the ministry refuses to ask for money for anyone interested. Both Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll studied under him, and both were accepted to Dallas Theological Seminary after failing to qualify academically. They were accepted because R.B. Thieme wrote letters to have them accepted. I have also been told that John MacArthur had studied RBT's teachings at one time. And, its on record that at one time Billy Graham asked RBT to be his private mentor, but was refused because RBT was obligated to feed his congregation...

Take a peek. Look over the web page. He is one excellent teacher. In the Bible college I attended the professor of ancient languages one night at service recommended RBT to me in a conversation..... For he used RBT teachings to reference for some excellent messages I heard given by him. And, this professor was a retired Harvard professor who truly loved the Lord.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

grace and peace......

 

[Strong in Him]

Ok, so which bible is perfect?

All translations of the Bible proclaim God - his creation, his work, his ways, his nature, his plan of salvation.
All say that we are sinners, and that Jesus laid down his sinless life to reconcile us to God.
All speak of the resurrection.
All speak of the Holy Spirit, who transforms us into Jesus' image and likeness and gives us gifts to build up God's church.
All speak of the Kingdom of God, and say that we are called to live, work and pray for the Kingdom.
All say that we are children of God and have every spiritual blessing in Christ.
All say that Jesus will return one day, in glory, as king, and that every knee will bow before him.

All this is God's word. God's word is true, perfect, saves us and makes us clean.
Man made translations from one language to another vary. They vary because new discoveries are made and because language changes.
That doesn't mean that they deny God's essential message, change his plans or trash his nature.
Unless it is something like the NWT, which, by adding an extra word in John 1, changes the nature of God, and denies the Trinity.

Please don't fall into the trap of thinking that a translation of the Bible has to be perfect in word and grammar for God's word to be true.

 

[robycop3]

Ok, so which bible is perfect?

No translation is absolutely perfect, as no language caqn be translated with 100% perfection into another.

The KJV has PROVEN goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4.

 

[GenemZ]

Please don't fall into the trap of thinking that a translation of the Bible has to be perfect in word and grammar for God's word to be true.

Especially when its misleading in its imperfection and grammar?

Yet? You are correct though. God's Word remains true. We just need to find it.

 

[mlepfitjw]

I believe KJVO is not a true doctrine, as it has no Scriptural support, even in the KJV itself. Anyone wanna try to defend KJVO ?

All bibles have the same message. God sent his son Jesus Christ, to die on the cross, paying for sin, and being rose again by God 3 days later.

Turn from darkness towards the light, love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Never met anyone really hard on kjv so it just seems silly.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

No translation is absolutely perfect, as no language caqn be translated with 100% perfection into another.

The KJV has PROVEN goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4.

I was curious if there is any group similar to KJVO in another language such as a French "Jerusalem Bible" - Only?

 

[Strong in Him]

Especially when its misleading in its imperfection and grammar?

I don't believe God's word is ever misleading.
Where there are differences, that's when we need to study, compare translations, look at the passages in context and find out as best we can what the author wrote and what he meant by what he wrote.
We have very many resources available to us; there's no excuse not to study and learn God's word. Paul even told Timothy to study to show that he was a workman approved by God, 2 Timothy 2:15.

Yet? You are correct though. God's Word remains true. We just need to find it.

God's word is the Bible - available at any good bookshop/on the internet etc.