Hello. I have many questions.

[kaijo]

Here we go. The word we read as "teaches" in the Greek is not the word used for a classroom/teacher setting.


Here is an illustration to show you how this Greek was used in teaching.

Little Johnny was enthralled after he saw his first candle being lit. He studied it ,and found it fascinating. When he went to touch the flame with his tiny fingers his parents seeing him do this told him. "No! Don't touch!" Johnny stepped back feeling a sense of frustration from unsatisfied curiosity.

A few weeks later there was a birthday party for his sister. Once again he reached out to touch the flame on her birthday cake. Again, his parents warned and stopped him.

And, then months later..

Someone had lit some candles in a cabin they had rented for their vacation.

This time? The parents watched at a distance as Johnny approached a candle. He looked around to see if anyone was watching. He saw no one. So? This time, little Johnny knowing full well he had been warned, poked his little finger in the flame. YEOWWWW!!!!!!!

Guess what? Johnny finally learned not to do that.

How did he learn this? By hurting himself in disobedience!​

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It
teaches us (by allowing us to learn the hard way - in hurting ourselves)
to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled,
upright and godly lives in this present age." Ttus 2:11-12​

It says that this type of grace teaching has appeared to all men. Not just believers!

Its why unbeliever hell-raisers we knew in our youth learn to say "NO!" and begin to live moral and upright lives as they become adults. Its not just for believers. Its for all men.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It
teaches us (by allowing us to learn the hard way - hurting ourselves)
to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled,
upright and godly lives in this present age." Ttus 2:11-12​

That is why telling unbelievers that you gave up "this and that" after you believed in Jesus does not mean much to them. For God has given this morality to all men who are willing to learn.

On the other hand.. Its believers that are recipients of virtue. A way designed by God that supersedes even human morality. Only believers who walk in the filling of the Spirit and in truth know of this virtue. Its actually grace-power from God to be free from what normally would tempt a person.

Many legalistic, judgmental, churches harp on morality. And, not on how to become free and relaxed in the face of temptation. Virtue is a form of supernatural morality with real power. Virtue also fills one with power to produce actions that supersedes that persons natural ability to do what is right according to mere morality.

Grace and peace.......

Well that's pretty cool. I didn't know that. Point taken.

 

[GenemZ]

Well that's pretty cool. I didn't know that. Point taken.

There is so much to know... God chose to have the original Bible recorded in languages that are rich in expression.

 

[Gary Lee]

Here we go. The word we read as "teaches" in the Greek is not the word used for a classroom/teacher setting.


Here is an illustration to show you how this Greek was used in teaching.

Little Johnny was enthralled after he saw his first candle being lit. He studied it ,and found it fascinating. When he went to touch the flame with his tiny fingers his parents seeing him do this told him. "No! Don't touch!" Johnny stepped back feeling a sense of frustration from unsatisfied curiosity.

A few weeks later there was a birthday party for his sister. Once again he reached out to touch the flame on her birthday cake. Again, his parents warned and stopped him.

And, then months later..

Someone had lit some candles in a cabin they had rented for their vacation.

This time? The parents watched at a distance as Johnny approached a candle. He looked around to see if anyone was watching. He saw no one. So? This time, little Johnny knowing full well he had been warned, poked his little finger in the flame. YEOWWWW!!!!!!!

Guess what? Johnny finally learned not to do that.

How did he learn this? By hurting himself in disobedience!

Learning by experience, instead of trust/belief.

By belief/faith
"Then Jesus told him,
"Because you have seen me, you have believed;
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

 

[GenemZ]

Learning by experience, instead of trust/belief.

By belief/faith
"Then Jesus told him,
"Because you have seen me, you have believed;
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Not sure what you were getting at there...


In regards to immorality and wrongdoing? And the painful fruit it produces? In regards to learning to say "NO!" to unrighteousness from getting hurt? In that regard.. you were correct.

But, in regards to having knowledge of God's Word? Not the case.

But be always growing in the grace and knowledge of our
Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be all glory, both now
and for ever! Amen." 2 Pet 3:18
​

We do not have to learn sound Bible doctrine knowledge by having an experience to know it. We gain that knowledge by attending the university of the Bible = a good church. Are you going to go back in time to see what the Bible speaks of happening with God's people?

By having knowledge learned taken in while being filled with the Holy Spirit? It transforms our mind into the thinking of Christ.. And, only when the Word of God is taught with accuracy and respect.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed
by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test
and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Rom 12:2

​

grace and peace......

 

[Gary Lee]

Not sure what you were getting at there...

It was about believing without seeing/feeling. Trust.
Little Johnnie learned only by 'experiencing pain' himself, seeing and feeling, the senses.
He did not believe what his parents told him.

When I read your post, the scripture verse I posted popped up in my memory banks,
and I 'assumed' it would be understood.
You know what they say about assuming....

"blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

 

[GenemZ]

It was about believing without seeing/feeling. Trust.
Little Johnnie learned only by 'experiencing pain' himself, seeing and feeling, the senses.
He did not believe what his parents told him.

When I read your post, the scripture verse I posted popped up in my memory banks,
and I 'assumed' it would be understood.
You know what they say about assuming....

"blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

OK... but the point was that the word used for "teaches" in Titus 2:11-12 is not the same Greek word found for when one teaches.

Its a different word.

Its more like know someone who got caught in doing something wrong, and getting into big trouble. And, then telling them.. "That 'ill teach you!"

Its not the word used for instructional type teaching by imparting knowledge. The Greek word found in that passage does not imply a typical kind of teaching situation. Today we might call it, "learning the hard way."

If one is reading a typical English translation they have no clue as to what was being actually expressed...

grace and peace...

 

[Gary Lee]

OK... but the point was that the word used for "teaches" in Titus 2:11-12 is not the same Greek word found for when one teaches.

Its a different word.

Its more like know someone who got caught in doing something wrong, and getting into big trouble. And, then telling them.. "That 'ill teach you!"

Its not the word used for instructional type teaching by imparting knowledge. The Greek word found in that passage does not imply a typical kind of teaching situation. Today we might call it, "learning the hard way."

If one is reading a typical English translation they have no clue as to what was being actually expressed...

grace and peace...

Understood. and, Thanks, genez