Conversion therapy

[Carl Emerson]

No. I am saying that there is more than one way to engage in deliverance ministry. One does not have to make it about sexuality or gender identity in order for it to be effective. In fact I would expect that to be counter-productive.

Would you be prepared to allow those called and ordained to minister in this way to make that call? Or do you not feel safe unless there is a law passed to regulate the ministry?

 

[Paidiske]

Would you be prepared to allow those called and ordained to minister in this way to make that call? Or do you not feel safe unless there is a law passed to regulate the ministry?

Again, Carl, go and look at some of the terrible things actually being done. Did you read the account I linked of one Christian being locked in a dark room and not allowed to eat for two weeks, as part of "deliverance ministry"?

This isn't about my safety. It's about the safety of vulnerable young people. I have no problem with such a law, and I find it disturbing that others seem to be more concerned with preserving ecclesial power and privilege than protecting the vulnerable.

 

[Carl Emerson]

For the church to cling to privilege, power and authority rather than humbly seek the safety of the vulnerable is exactly the attitude of which we need to repent.

I would not assume that those called to this ministry are clinging to privilege power and authority - that sounds rather judgemental - in fact if one had those weaknesses they would not last 5 minutes in a genuine spiritual encounter.
This has happened - during an encounter in England, a priest lost his sight when a woman in a state of possession attacked him during ministry. Clearly in this case he was not fit for purpose.

 

[Paidiske]

I would not assume that those called to this ministry are clinging to privilege power and authority - that sounds rather judgemental - in fact if one had those weaknesses they would not last 5 minutes in a genuine spiritual encounter.

I'm not arguing this about those called to this ministry. I'm suggesting this is true of people who think the law shouldn't apply to the church.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Again, Carl, go and look at some of the terrible things actually being done. Did you read the account I linked of one Christian being locked in a dark room and not allowed to eat for two weeks, as part of "deliverance ministry"?

Those things are not being done by those ordained to minister in deliverance by a bishop in the church.

Allowing the law to dictate church practice will frustrate good ministry.

Just like in China - so the church went underground.

 

[Paidiske]

Those things are not being done by those ordained to minister in deliverance by a bishop in the church.

That's not the point.

Allowing the law to dictate church practice will frustrate good ministry.

Not if the law is only banning something we shouldn't be doing anyway.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can we leave it there?

Folks will have a good handle on both perspectives.

 

[Paidiske]

Can we leave it there?

Folks will have a good handle on both perspectives.

I'm fine to leave it there, if you're fine to stop pushing the idea that a ban on conversion therapy is somehow a threat to the church.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not if the law is only banning something we shouldn't be doing anyway.

Ae you suggesting this has been going on in for example the Anglican Church?

 

[Paidiske]

Ae you suggesting this has ben going on in for example the Anglican Church?

I personally know of instances.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm fine to leave it there, if you're fine to stop pushing the idea that a ban on conversion therapy is somehow a threat to the church.

Yes it definitely is if the folks who have lobbied for this have their way.

Thanks for the exchange...

 

[Carl Emerson]

I personally know of instances.

Involving those ordained for deliverance ministry?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Excuse the typo's it is 1am over here...

 

[Paidiske]

Involving those ordained for deliverance ministry?

Or at least, those working in authorised healing ministries which at times had a deliverance aspect.

(We are not ordained "for" deliverance ministry; some of us are given specific permission to practice exorcisms, most are not. But as I noted above, there are many aspects of "ordinary" ministry which have a deliverance aspect to them).

 

[Carl Emerson]

Have a good sleep...

 

[Quartermaine]

Does this include addressing the spiritual issues involved at that 'someones' request?

telling people homosexuality is an illness or developmental process that can be fixed or cured is not spiritual

 

[Quartermaine]

Those things are not being done by those ordained to minister in deliverance by a bishop in the church.

how do you know?

 

[nolidad]

What "textbooks"?

Psych texts and state DMH manuals. New editions may have changed terms, I do not know, but as late as the early 2000's sexual orientation was defined as ones sexual activity preference and gender identity was how one defined their gender.

 

[Quartermaine]

Psych texts and state DMH manuals. New editions may have changed terms, I do not know, but as late as the early 2000's sexual orientation was defined as ones sexual activity preference and gender identity was how one defined their gender.

so they aren't still mis-defining them

 

[Carl Emerson]

how do you know?

If you have examples then the church authorities would welcome your evidence.