Conversion therapy

[Carl Emerson]

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

 

[Sketcher]

It's very possible. In the US and Canada, the people who have been spearheading this kind of legislation are concerned primarily with fraudulent and potentially harmful "therapy" but are not concerned about overreach and how that overreach would affect ministry workers who are not engaging in those practices but are trying to help people of those persuasions live Christian lives.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I have no problem with the banning of such therapy for minors or if it is forced upon someone. Adults who wish to pursue it on their own should be permitted to do so, however.

 

[Paidiske]

There are Christian groups who engage in varieties of conversion therapy. They have been shown to be both ineffective and deeply harmful. (That is not the same thing as appropriate medical support for someone de-transitioning).

I support such a ban.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Do you not see a role for the church in assisting those who want to revert to their birth gender?

Should the church be banned from assisting?

 

[Paidiske]

Do you not see a role for the church in assisting those who want to revert to their birth gender?

Should the church be banned from assisting?

It depends what "assisting" entails. These laws are to prevent people from engaging in harmful pseudo-therapeutic practices. They are not to there to prevent practical, emotional or spiritual support to someone receiving appropriate medical care.

 

[Amittai]

.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It depends what "assisting" entails. These laws are to prevent people from engaging in harmful pseudo-therapeutic practices. They are not to there to prevent practical, emotional or spiritual support to someone receiving appropriate medical care.

Well we don't have the laws here yet so it remains to be seen if the legal net prevents the church from ministering in this area.

 

[Paidiske]

Well we don't have the laws here yet so it remains to be seen if the legal net prevents the church from ministering in this area.

If the church isn't trying to change someone's sexuality or gender identity, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If the church isn't trying to change someone's sexuality or gender identity, it shouldn't be a problem.

Do you mean by that, that to assist someone to transition back is OK in your view?

 

[Paidiske]

Do you mean by that, that to assist someone to transition back is OK in your view?

Again, it entirely depends what you mean by "assist." If someone is transitioning and needs new clothes appropriate for their gender, and the church gives them clothes (for example), that's fine. If the church is trying to convince that person that they are mistaken or wrong about their gender identity, or control the way they present their gender, that's not at all fine.

 

[Llleopard]

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

Where do you get the bit about transitioning back to biological sex from? All I can find on the labour website is making conversion therapy a crime. I would assume this to have the usual meaning of what paidiske is saying. The whole repellant 'pray away the gay ' rubbish that has been rearing its ugly head in N Z recently.

 

[Quartermaine]

I have no problem with the banning of such therapy for minors or if it is forced upon someone. Adults who wish to pursue it on their own should be permitted to do so, however.

Sometimes adults need protection from quackery and harmful activities masquerading as treatment. Ice pick lobotomies are banned for all ages because they are destructive to the person. Ice pick lobotomies for example

 

[Carl Emerson]

Where do you get the bit about transitioning back to biological sex from? All I can find on the labour website is making conversion therapy a crime. I would assume this to have the usual meaning of what paidiske is saying. The whole repellant 'pray away the gay ' rubbish that has been rearing its ugly head in N Z recently.

OK my OP asked however, if the proposed legislation will ban churches from assisting those who want to return to their birth gender. I have Christian friends who are deeply greived and regret assisting their daughter to change sex - if all parties agree to reverse the journey, will the church under the new law be banned from assisting ?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Where do you get the bit about transitioning back to biological sex from? All I can find on the labour website is making conversion therapy a crime. I would assume this to have the usual meaning of what paidiske is saying. The whole repellant 'pray away the gay ' rubbish that has been rearing its ugly head in N Z recently.

So how is 'conversion therapy' defined? Is it christian based?

 

[Paidiske]

"Conversion therapy is the pseudoscientific practice of trying to change an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual using psychological, physical, or spiritual interventions." (From wikipedia). It would also generally cover trying to change someone's gender identity.

It is not necessarily Christian based, although as I noted, there are Christian groups who engage in various conversion therapies.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So if the church has a gay convert that wanted to transision back to their birth gender, it would be illegal for the church to support that process ?

 

[Paidiske]

So if the church has a gay convert that wanted to transision back to their birth gender, it would be illegal for the church to support that process ?

If someone has transitioned (physically and/or socially), and chooses to detransition, that's a matter for them and their health team.

The church can support that decision by that person, as I mentioned, in practical ways, in emotional ways, and so on; what it can't do is try to tell that person that they should detransition, or in any way try to coerce or control that process.

Also, you seem to be conflating sexuality and gender identity, and that's probably not helpful.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If someone has transitioned (physically and/or socially), and chooses to detransition, that's a matter for them and their health team.

The church can support that decision by that person, as I mentioned, in practical ways, in emotional ways, and so on; what it can't do is try to tell that person that they should detransition, or in any way try to coerce or control that process.

Also, you seem to be conflating sexuality and gender identity, and that's probably not helpful.

Yes I am not familiar with the right terminology.

So as long as the individual is no coerced by the church just supported in various ways it should not be a breach of Law.

I guess we will have to wait and see is even that freedom is taken away from the church...

 

[Paidiske]

So as long as the individual is no coerced by the church just supported in various ways it should not be a breach of Law.

Kind of. The lack of coercion is key, but also the not engaging in trying to change the person. So, for example, deliverance ministry aimed at changing someone's sexuality or gender identity (even with the person's consent) would generally fall into this kind of category.