Prophecy Questions on Day Year Principle

[Andre_b]

I hope I'm explaining myself properly here.

Why is 483/490 days of Daniel 9:24-27 = 1 year = 365 days = 483/490 years, eg:
457BC to 27AD = 483 solar years? Then the 42 months is 360 days for a year? Time, times and half a time? Then the 2300 days is also 365 days for a year?

Why is one the Hebrew year and the other solar? This theory seems to put the 2300 year prophecy in question, same with Daniel 8 little horn comes out of the he-goat or Greece.

 

[BobRyan]

I hope I'm explaining myself properly here.

Why is 483/490 days of Daniel 9:24-27 = 1 year = 365 days = 483/490 years, eg:
457BC to 27AD = 483 solar years? Then the 42 months is 360 days for a year? Time, times and half a time? Then the 2300 days is also 365 days for a year?

Why is one the Hebrew year and the other solar? This theory seems to put the 2300 year prophecy in question, same with Daniel 8 little horn comes out of the he-goat or Greece.

They are all solar years.. Dan 7, 8,9 and Rev 11,12,13 they all use day for solar year. Nothing complex - very consistent.

Time, times, half time == 42 months x 30 days per month = 1260 days. 1260 solar year.

to calculate "the days" the symbolic days - use the 30 days per month rule because Rev 11 and 12 tell you to do that. But once you get to those "days" then they all translate using "day for solar year". In Rev 11 and 12 we see that 42 months, and 1260 days, and time time and half a time - are all the same unit of time.

We know that once you get to 'days' -- then use "day for year" is right because the days of Daniel 9 translate to years and work out exactly to the baptism of Christ in 27 A.D.

So the first step is to get to the number of "days" using the rules the Bible gives But then once you get to some number of days. Use the "day for solar year" rule because it is obviously what had to be used in the case of Daniel 9 and works for all the others as well.

 

[Andre_b]

They are all solar years.. Dan 7, 8,9 and Rev 11,12,13 they all use day for solar year. Nothing complex - very consistent.

Time, times, half time == 42 months x 30 days per month = 1260 days. 1260 solar year.

to calculate "the days" the symbolic days - use the 30 days per month rule because Rev 11 and 12 tell you to do that. But once you get to those "days" then they all translate using "day for solar year". In Rev 11 and 12 we see that 42 months, and 1260 days, and time time and half a time - are all the same unit of time.

We know that once you get to 'days' -- then use "day for year" is right because the days of Daniel 9 translate to years and work out exactly to the baptism of Christ in 27 A.D.

So the first step is to get to the number of "days" using the rules the Bible gives But then once you get to some number of days. Use the "day for solar year" rule because it is obviously what had to be used in the case of Daniel 9 and works for all the others as well.

But what I don't understand is time, times, half a time is 360+720+180=1260 why is it not 365+730+182? 360 is not solar.

 

[BobRyan]

But what I don't understand is time, times, half a time is 360+720+180=1260 why is it not 365+730+182? 360 is not solar.

You are trying the "day for year" twice.. once to break down the times/time/.5time and then again to translate from day to solar year.

But if you do that - it won't comply with the rule in Rev 11 and 12 where the chapters describes the same period of time as 1260 days, and 42 months and also as time times and half time.

Because the first step: part A: is to calculate the number of days... only then do you use the day-for-year.
So part - A - get that times, time, half time to be months, then the months to be symbolic days.

Just like in Dan 9 you turn the 70 weeks into days... then use the day-for-year to finish it out to 490 years.

Rev 11 and 12 solve that 30 days per month rule by telling us that 1260 days = 42 months = Times Time and half time. And the only way that can be true is for the 42 months to be 30 days each.

So only then do we have the 1260 days ... and that is when we use 'day for solar year'.

And we can only use that rule for the "days" -- because you can't use "day for solar year" with month, or a symbolic year... it can only be used with a symbolic "day".

 

[Semper-Fi]

But what I don't understand is time, times, half a time is 360+720+180=1260 why is it not 365+730+182? 360 is not solar.

What is a “Time”? For it is basic to several key prophecies. a prophetic “time” is a 360-day year? Why not a year of 3651/4 days?

Why not a solar year?

In ancient biblical times, a year was figured on
a basis of twelve 30-day months.

Previous to the time, in Moses’s day, when God gave His people the sacred calendar, the 30-day month was used.


Notice Genesis 7:11: “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.”

Now verse 24: “And the waters prevailed upon
the earth an hundred and fifty days.”

Next, Genesis 8:3-4: “And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.”


So notice—the flood started on the 17th day of the second month. At the end of 150 days, the ark rested on Mount Ararat, on the 17th day of the 7th month. That was five months to the day. Five 30-day months are precisely 150 days.

So months, then, were 30-day months!
We find it definitely figured this way
in both Daniel and Revelation.

different language in Revelation 12:14
as “a time, and times, and half a time.”

The “time” is one prophetic year; the “times” is two more prophetic years; and the whole expression is 31/2 prophetic “times,” which is a literal 1,260 days—or 31/2 years of 30-day months.

Seven of these “times” then would be 2,520 days—and on a day-for-a-year basis, 2,520 years!

 

[Andre_b]

You are trying the "day for year" twice.. once to break down the times/time/.5time and then again to translate from day to solar year.

But if you do that - it won't comply with the rule in Rev 11 and 12 where the chapters describes the same period of time as 1260 days, and 42 months and also as time times and half time.

Because the first step: part A: is to calculate the number of days... only then do you use the day-for-year.
So part - A - get that times, time, half time to be months, then the months to be symbolic days.

Just like in Dan 9 you turn the 70 weeks into days... then use the day-for-year to finish it out to 490 years.

Rev 11 and 12 solve that 30 days per month rule by telling us that 1260 days = 42 months = Times Time and half time. And the only way that can be true is for the 42 months to be 30 days each.

So only then do we have the 1260 days ... and that is when we use 'day for solar year'.

And we can only use that rule for the "days" -- because you can't use "day for solar year" with month, or a symbolic year... it can only be used with a symbolic "day".

Why is this method not used for the 70x7 weeks? Convert it to days like the 42 months?

 

[BobRyan]

Why is this method not used for the 70x7 weeks? Convert it to days like the 42 months?

It is the same for both.

Step 1 - decode the symbol down to the level of symbolic days.
Step 2 - use the day-for-year rule on "days".

70 weeks --- decode 70 weeks into 490 days , then each day subject to "day for year" rule for apocalyptic prophecy:

42 months -- decoded into 1260 days, then each day subject to "day for year" rule for apocalyptic prophecy.

The only other option for trying to go from 42 months to "days" - would be to try and figure out how many of the 42 months are mix of 30 days, 31 days, 28 days, 29 days .. a complex mess that the Bible never uses for trying to get months to days.

 

[Gary K]

Just as an aside, the Jews still use the calendar year that they did in Moses' day. They have kept the same measure of time for thousands of years. It's a 360 day calendar with a leap year that adds a thirteenth month every so many hears to keep up with difference in days between an exactly yearly cycle just as the pagan calendar we use adds a day once every 4th year.

That calendar is the same one John used so it is natural that he used a 360 day year in his prophecies.

That Daniel used the 7 day weekly cycle is also a natural fit for a 490 year prophecy. Think how more complex the math would have been to figure the exact year when the quotient would have been as 490 / 30 is 16.3333.... It's a repeating decimal, and I don't think I've ever seen that concept used in the Bible.

It's also a very odd fit to attempt to use a pagan year to define a Biblical prophecy. I'd say trying to use pagan concepts of times and years to figure out what a Bible writer was meaning is an exercise in futility. Paganism and Christianity are completely separate concepts and come from completely opposed systems of belief.

 

[BibleDisciple]

360 days in a year is frustrating to me, too. It is neither solar (365.2) or lunar (354 or 383). A lunar month is 1/2 day less than 30 days, and a "month" was named after the moon (moonth), so a solar month is arbitrary.

Why doesn't the Bible just say 1260 days, and leave it at that? Time, times and half a time leaves a lot of room for speculation.

 

[Gary K]

360 days in a year is frustrating to me, too. It is neither solar (365.2) or lunar (354 or 383). A lunar month is 1/2 day less than 30 days, and a "month" was named after the moon (moonth), so a solar month is arbitrary.

Why doesn't the Bible just say 1260 days, and leave it at that? Time, times and half a time leaves a lot of room for speculation.

Why do you find it so frustrating? Do you really think that the Bible writers of thousands of years ago would use anything other than the measures of time that they were familiar with because they used it on a daily basis?

Under what assumptions does it make sense for Biblical authors to use anything other than the calendar system in use at the time the Bible was written? Were the Biblical writers supposed to write using calendar systems not yet invented? You know, make prophecies completely incomprehensible to the people of their own time as no one was using our calendars.

One of the things I find really interesting about the Bible is that studying it increases our reasoning power, our critical thinking abilities. It's study leads us to a greater depth and breadth of mind. It's actually a sign of the divine inspiration of the Bible. God is always leading us on an upward path in all of His interactions with us. He is always seeking to improve us. That is love. And it is exactly the opposite of things here on earth for those things always work to degrade us.

 

[BibleDisciple]

You kind of make my point for me. Where did a 30 day month come from? Or a 360 day year? It looks like even the Babylonians were using a lunar calendar. The lunar calendar should alternate between 29 and 30 days for months. A 360 day year was not in use at the time.

So there is a lunar calendar, a solar calendar and then a calendar used for prophesy. It would make more sense, if the calendar used for prophesy was a calendar that was in use at the time.

It is at least consistent between Daniel and Revelation.

 

[Gary K]

You kind of make my point for me. Where did a 30 day month come from? Or a 360 day year? It looks like even the Babylonians were using a lunar calendar. The lunar calendar should alternate between 29 and 30 days for months. A 360 day year was not in use at the time.

So there is a lunar calendar, a solar calendar and then a calendar used for prophesy. It would make more sense, if the calendar used for prophesy was a calendar that was in use at the time.

It is at least consistent between Daniel and Revelation.

The calendar the prophets used is the same calendar the Jews have used for thousands of years. Take a look at some of the online Jewish calendars that show both the current US calendar and the current Jewish calendar. There are vast differences between the two calendars including the names of days, months, and years.

Just because you and I are not familiar with the differences doesn't make their calendar invalid. It just makes it unfamiliar to us. This is September 25, 2020 to us. To the Jew it is 7 Tishri 5781 and the day ends at sundown. After that the date changes

 

[Gary K]

You kind of make my point for me. Where did a 30 day month come from? Or a 360 day year? It looks like even the Babylonians were using a lunar calendar. The lunar calendar should alternate between 29 and 30 days for months. A 360 day year was not in use at the time.

So there is a lunar calendar, a solar calendar and then a calendar used for prophesy. It would make more sense, if the calendar used for prophesy was a calendar that was in use at the time.

It is at least consistent between Daniel and Revelation.

Oops. Forgot to comment on your questions.

Why would you assume that the Jews used the same calendar that the pagan Babylonians used? There was little, if anything, in common between the Jews and the Babylonians. The world was a much different place back then than it is now. Pretty much every nation back then was complete in itself. It was not like today when the entire world is so interconnected.

It seems to me that you think the Israelites/Jews should have adopted everything the pagan world used. Like the Bible says they were to be a peculiar people. That was their God-given mandate. They were to be separate from the rest of the world in all parts of their culture. The devil set up the cultures in the pagan world. God set up the culture in the Israelite/Jewish world. Why would He use a pagan culture as a model for the culture He was setting up?