Adam and Eve

[April_Rose]

So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

 

[Running2win]

So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

Yeah, that's what I believe. It's hard to tell because we now know what good and evil is. But just say everything is "normal". Animals eat green plants, we eat fruit, nuts, grains. We walk around naked , no pain (or not much) in child birth, no discord between everyone, and we remain more or less like children, IMO. We would learn, but not really appreciate God and what He has done for us, IMO.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

We would live in harmony with our Creater through the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh. He walked with Adam and Eve in Eden until the fall. Be blessed.

 

[April_Rose]

Yeah, that's what I believe. It's hard to tell because we now know what good and evil is. But just say everything is "normal". Animals eat green plants, we eat fruit, nuts, grains. We walk around naked , no pain (or not much) in child birth, no discord between everyone, and we remain more or less like children, IMO. We would learn, but not really appreciate God and what He has done for us, IMO.

I'm understanding everything else, and no pain in labor sounds great and not appreciating what God has done for us sounds horrible,.. but I was always confused on how being clothed is actually considered "sinful." I mean would you want everybody to see your junk hanging out of your trunk? (I just looked now and it says you are a male and I feel stupid because all of this time I thought that you were a female lol sorry about that. *Blushes*) As for me,.. I would feel very uncomfortable if I was naked all the time. Especially since I'm engaged.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

God created mankind with a free will. In order to have a real relationship with us God had to give us the freedom to love or to not love Him, to trust or to not trust Him. Without the freedom of the will we could comply, but not love.
How and why Lucifer turned against God is not explained in the Bible, but we know that he did. I think if Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation, then some other human, even generations later, had eaten from the tree of knowledge. The Fall had just been postponed.
You might say now "but what if every human being resisted the temptation" - but that is quite wishful thinking. Having the freedom to choose and knowing the human nature it is very unlikely that no human had ever failed to resist.

And it would seem that God knew exactly that! Even before Creation he had planned the way to save us from the consequences of our free will. God knew that He had to sacrifice His own and only Son for our redemption.

As for me,.. I would feel very uncomfortable if I was naked all the time. Especially since I'm engaged.

In Genesis 2 it says: "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame". Why did they feel no shame? Because they didn't know about "right" and "wrong", about "good" and "bad". Right after they ate from the tree of knowledge they covered their specific parts, because they got to know the feeling of shame - just as you and I would feel today. And we will always use clothing (for the better) as long as we have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong. I can't think of a single occasion in the Bible where clothing is considered "sinful"; it's a necessary consequence of the Fall. The fact that we cover our bodies is as much of a sin as the fact that we contract an illness from time to time: not a sin, but a consequence that is part of the fallen creation.

 

[plain jayne]

So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

Well, for one thing, I doubt we would be here. Death did not come until the Fall. Adam and Eve would still be here and so would all there descendants. Most conjectures would put every person ever born alive at about 100+ billion.

The earth as it is probably would not support that many people.

 

[Bobber]

In Genesis 2 it says: "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame". Why did they feel no shame? Because they didn't know about "right" and "wrong", about "good" and "bad". Right after they ate from the tree of knowledge they covered their specific parts, because they got to know the feeling of shame - just as you and I would feel today. And we will always use clothing (for the better) as long as we have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong. I can't think of a single occasion in the Bible where clothing is considered "sinful"; it's a necessary consequence of the Fall. The fact that we cover our bodies is as much of a sin as the fact that we contract an illness from time to time: not a sin, but a consequence that is part of the fallen creation.

I have a different way of thinking about this. I know Gen 2 says "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame". I wonder when the scripture is saying this that it's meant in a certain sense of the word. That in a way they weren't totally naked in the way that we would think but that they didn't have clothes of the physical. Were they really clothed in the light/energy/ glory of God? To illustrate on the Mt of Transfiguration it says the glory manifested and,

After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Matt 17:17

And in Matt 28:1-4 we read at an event where an angel appeared at the Resurrection of Jesus,

There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. Matt 28:1-4

What they saw was what happened when God allows his glory to manifest. So before sin degenerated the spirits of Adam & Eve were they really clothed with God's glory? It still rightly can be said "they were naked" in that they weren't wearing physical clothes but they didn't need them. The glory took care of everything...warmth, protection and covering. I can't say I can absolutely prove what I'm saying but Ps 104: 1-2 does say,

Lord my God, you are very great;you are clothed with splendour and majesty.
The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment; Ps 104:1-2

If God is clothed in garments of LIGHT, which I believe means the GLORY or modern day we'd call it the energy of God why would we think that it'd be different with MANKIND that is in the beginning. When Adam & Eve sinned the glory departed....and they saw themselves as naked, that is without the covering of glory.

 

[JIMINZ]

So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

All of us would still be in the Garden of Eden.

 

[April_Rose]

God created mankind with a free will. In order to have a real relationship with us God had to give us the freedom to love or to not love Him, to trust or to not trust Him. Without the freedom of the will we could comply, but not love.
How and why Lucifer turned against God is not explained in the Bible, but we know that he did. I think if Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation, then some other human, even generations later, had eaten from the tree of knowledge. The Fall had just been postponed.
You might say now "but what if every human being resisted the temptation" - but that is quite wishful thinking. Having the freedom to choose and knowing the human nature it is very unlikely that no human had ever failed to resist.

And it would seem that God knew exactly that! Even before Creation he had planned the way to save us from the consequences of our free will. God knew that He had to sacrifice His own and only Son for our redemption.



In Genesis 2 it says: "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame". Why did they feel no shame? Because they didn't know about "right" and "wrong", about "good" and "bad". Right after they ate from the tree of knowledge they covered their specific parts, because they got to know the feeling of shame - just as you and I would feel today. And we will always use clothing (for the better) as long as we have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong. I can't think of a single occasion in the Bible where clothing is considered "sinful"; it's a necessary consequence of the Fall. The fact that we cover our bodies is as much of a sin as the fact that we contract an illness from time to time: not a sin, but a consequence that is part of the fallen creation.

So are you saying that they didn't have the ability to know right from wrong because they were created to be sinless? But they still sinned so how were they created to be sinless since God never makes mistakes. Jesus was born sinless and never sinned,.. could He have though and just chosen not to? A little off topic I know but I always wondered that as that's what I always believed that He could sin, He just didn't. After all He was still tempted but just didn't give into temptation which is why I believe this.

I have a different way of thinking about this. I know Gen 2 says "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame". I wonder when the scripture is saying this that it's meant in a certain sense of the word. That in a way they weren't totally naked in the way that we would think but that they didn't have clothes of the physical. Were they really clothed in the light/energy/ glory of God? To illustrate on the Mt of Transfiguration it says the glory manifested and,

After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Matt 17:17

And in Matt 28:1-4 we read at an event where an angel appeared at the Resurrection of Jesus,

There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. Matt 28:1-4

What they saw was what happened when God allows his glory to manifest. So before sin degenerated the spirits of Adam & Eve were they really clothed with God's glory? It still rightly can be said "they were naked" in that they weren't wearing physical clothes but they didn't need them. The glory took care of everything...warmth, protection and covering. I can't say I can absolutely prove what I'm saying but Ps 104: 1-2 does say,

Lord my God, you are very great;you are clothed with splendour and majesty.
The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment; Ps 104:1-2

If God is clothed in garments of LIGHT, which I believe means the GLORY or modern day we'd call it the energy of God why would we think that it'd be different with MANKIND that is in the beginning. When Adam & Eve sinned the glory departed....and they saw themselves as naked, that is without the covering of glory.

So then being naked in the sense of being sinless?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

So are you saying that they didn't have the ability to know right from wrong because they were created to be sinless? But they still sinned so how were they created to be sinless since God never makes mistakes. Jesus was born sinless and never sinned,.. could He have though and just chosen not to? A little off topic I know but I always wondered that as that's what I always believed that He could sin, He just didn't. After all He was still tempted but just didn't give into temptation which is why I believe this.

I've spent a lot of time with Genesis 1, and after I found out that the story of the creation within six 24h-days is to be taken literally from a scientific point of view (although I'm not gonna go into more detail about the creation here) I tend to take the whole book of Genesis literally. The amazing thing about it is, that all of it makes so much sense when you take it literally!

The two key-conditions in a relationship are love and trust. You can only have a working relationship if both sides can freely choose to love and to trust each other. God enabled us to choose to love God by giving us a free will, but how did God enable Adam and Eve (and therefore mankind) to choose to trust God?
I believe that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is a literal tree. Why do I think that?

In Genesis 2:16 it says "And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die” (We are talking about the spiritual death here, the separation from God that we call "original sin" today). In other words, God said to Adam and Eve: "Please do not eat from this tree. It is bad for you if you do, please trust me on this."
In order to enable the humans to choose to trust God, which is necessary for a real relationship, there had to be the possibility of a breach of confidence, and that is exactly why this tree existed in the garden of Eden. If Adam and Eve had no way to mistrust God then it had not been a real relationship.

The other thing that we can know from this tree's existence is that Adam and Eve did not know what is good and what is evil:
1) God's creation was perfect in the beginning. Sin as a concept itself didn't exist in the world, and if Adam and Eve knew what evil is then the concept of sin had been present.
2) It wouldn't make sense to put a tree there that has no benefit at all. Everything God does serves a purpose.
3) In Genesis 3:6 it says "the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was...desirable for gaining wisdom", so it makes sense to say that they didn't have this wisdom, knowing the difference between good and evil, before.

This is getting long, I'm sorry.

There is actually two big questions now.
a) If the concept of sin did not exist on earth, how is it possible that Adam and Eve sinned? And
b) If Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil, isn't it unfair of God to punish them for eating the fruit?

My answers to these questions are the following, but if you don't agree feel free to tell me:
a) The concept of sin did not exist on earth, but Lucifer (who sinned in heaven somehow) brought the concept into God's creation. By making Eve do something against God's will he introduced the whole concept from outside into the world.
b) When a king (or even your father) tells you to not eat a cake and you eat it anyway, he might punish you. Not because eating a cake is evil. But because the king/your father is a higher authority and you owe him obedience. This is not a question of good and evil. The understanding of authority is independent of the understanding of good and evil. Adam and Eve knew that God had created them and was a higher authority. They didn't need to understand the difference between good and evil to know that they should obey God. In fact I believe that God didn't punish Adam and Eve for doing something bad but simply for not being obedient to a higher authority.

Jesus was born sinless and never sinned,.. could He have though and just chosen not to? A little off topic I know but I always wondered that as that's what I always believed that He could sin, He just didn't. After all He was still tempted but just didn't give into temptation which is why I believe this.

You are absolutely right. Jesus was born without original sin (which means he was born in a relationship with God, not separated from God like everyone of us) but since he was fully human he was as tempted as we are. Hebrews 12 says "the sin that so easily entangles", and it is indeed biblical to say that the sin attacks us from the outside. That's why even Christians who got the Holy Spirit and give Him contol in their life struggle with sin sometimes, because even though the Holy Spirit cleans our inside we are still snared by sin.
So, Jesus was indeed able to sin, but he chose not to. But in my opinion you can say even more. When we think about the origin of evil we have the issue that we know that God is the only eternal being. Everything that exists has its origin in God. But God is holy, perfect and good, so how is it even possible that bad things exist?

I believe that God is "physically" able to do evil things. When we read the Old Testament we know that God can wipe out mankind in seconds, and while He only does it when it is just, when mankind deserves it, God could theoretically do the same "just for fun".
I think God's holiness is that He, God Himself, chooses to be good. I believe God can do anything, but because He wants to be good and holy He chooses to never do anything unjust, never anything evil. And because God is God He will never fail at it. That is what makes Him perfect.

 

[April_Rose]

Wait, I got another question now. If God knew that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit that was bad for them,.. what was the point of putting it there in the first place?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Wait, I got another question now. If God knew that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit that was bad for them,.. what was the point of putting it there in the first place?

Wow, this is the complete question about the meaning of life God created humans in His image to have a relationship with us. As I tried to explain above it is necessary for a relationship that the humans were able to choose to trust God. The point of putting the tree there is to give us the freedom of trusting God or not.

God knew exactly that Adam and Eve would eat it - but that was unevitable! God created us to have a relationship with us - for the relationship we need that freedom to choose - that freedom resulted in the humans not trusting God.
You could even put it this way:

The supreme ethic is love. You cannot have love without the freedom of the will. Where there is love there has to be the possibility of freedom, otherwise you can’t love. Where there is freedom there has to be necessarily evil. Where there is evil you have the need of a saviour. Where there is a saviour there is the possibility of redemption. Greatest ethic love – only possible because of freedom – resulting in evil – the need of a saviour – the possibility of redemption.
The Christian world-view is unique in pulling all of these together and it's amazingly logical.

The thing I don't understand is why God allowed the serpent to mislead Eve. God could have stopped Lucifer before he brought the concept of sin into our dimension. As far as I know the Bible does not give an answer to this.

 

[April_Rose]

Oh and I wonder if Adam and Eve's burial place is even known or the exact location of the garden of Eden even though it got washed away in the flood.

 

[WebersHome]

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So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus?

Not like Jesus. Whereas Adam was born capable of disobeying God; Jesus was born incapable of disobeying God. (1 John 3:9)
_

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Oh and I wonder if Adam and Eve's burial place is even known or the exact location of the garden of Eden even though it got washed away in the flood.

The Flood does indeed make this a bit difficult. The surface of the earth changed a whole lot in the process, and we can only use and analyze satellite pictures today to figure out where the garden of Eden has been.

We still know the rivers Tigris and Euphrates that are mentioned in Genesis 2:14, which made people think the garden of Eden was located in today's Turkey. But using modern technology it seems to be more likely that the garden was located on the other side of those rivers, near the Persian Gulf.

This might interest you:

 

[WebersHome]

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If God knew that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit that was bad for them

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil wasn't a bad tree. In point of fact, it wasn't even toxic. When Eve tasted its fruit, nothing happened. She didn't become ill, and she experienced no changes in her normal perception of the human body.

what was the point of putting it there in the first place?

Everything God created in the beginning got a passing grade of "very good" so in my estimation that tree's species fit into Eden's local environment right along with all the rest of the vegetation in that area.

The world we live in is full of natural hazards-- e.g. fire, ice, heights, reptiles, insects, noxious plants, river rapids, certain chemicals and metals, storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanism, etc. --all because in God's wisdom this world would not be "very good" without them.
_

 

[WebersHome]

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The thing I don't understand is why God allowed the serpent to mislead Eve.

Well; this may sound irreverent but what went on between Eve and the Serpent was really none of His business.

Tom Cruise was in a movie some time ago wherein mutants called pre-cogs could foresee the commission of a crime so that police could get the jump on perpetrators and arrest them before they went through with it. Do any of us really want to live in that kind of a Big Brother society?

Humans were created in the image and likeness of God; which gives them a measure of liberty to determine their own destinies without God's meddling in their affairs. In other words: it was never God's intention to micro-manage His creations; on the contrary it was His intention that they manage themselves; along with managing everything else on Earth.
_

 

[mmksparbud]

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Not like Jesus. Whereas Adam was born capable of disobeying God; Jesus was born incapable of disobeying God. (1 John 3:9)
_

If He was born totally incapable of sin, He could never have really been tempted. In order to be tempted, the possi8bility of failure must be present or it is no temptation and He would not have been a suitaqble redemptor for us.

Heb_4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

He came to show us that we, too, may overcome the same way He did by faith in the power of His Father. The verse you quot34d has nothing to do with Jesus being the Son of God---but of all believers. You have taken one verse and freed it from all the previous and preceding verses. Read it from the start, it is for all believers, for we are then born again in Christ.

 

[bèlla]

Rose2020,

Adam and Eve weren’t the problem. Its Mr. Slytherin who started it all.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[April_Rose]

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Well; this may sound irreverent but what went on between Eve and the Serpent was really none of His business.

_

Sorry but I don't agree with that. Everything that happens everywhere and at anytime God makes it His business to know about it. Of course He knows about it before it actually happens.