My Angelic Challenge

[HitchSlap]

So you're saying the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6 are responsible for "conscious-ing" their husbands into existence and, ultimately, corrupting all flesh on the Earth?

David fought Goliath, whose DNA could be traced back to a Nephlim, who was the offspring of one of these "angelic consciousnesses."

Just stop AV, you don’t believe in DNA.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Sorn]

True.

Angels are not, as Speedwell implies, biological creatures.

But they can imitate them, almost down to the DNA level.

I say "almost," because, when they [married] women on Earth, and had children, those children became giants on the Earth.

You are making an invalid assumption here. You are assuming that the angels wanted to and were trying to imitate human DNA.
They may well have been deliberately not but instead were 'improving' it, as they saw it.
After all, if their sons became giants (ie superhumans) then they were then the top dogs in
the society, what dad does't want that for their sons?

They may well have been able to have kids that were no different from locals but instead chose to have DNA that produced kids that were just better than the locals.

 

[Yttrium]

I'm open to the idea of angels, but I have insufficient evidence for them, and insufficient reasons for them to exist. So I'm inclined to consider them to be fictional characters.

I could see them as mouthpieces for a supreme being, giving them a reassuring form to interact with humans, but there would be no reason I can see to give them free will, or allow for fallen angels.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are making an invalid assumption here. You are assuming that the angels wanted to and were trying to imitate human DNA.
They may well have been deliberately not but instead were 'improving' it, as they saw it.

I don't consider this ...

Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

... as improvement.

All that DNA did was make them taller, stronger, and gave them extra fingers (and toes?); and it made them volatile as well.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm open to the idea of angels, but I have insufficient evidence for them, and insufficient reasons for them to exist. So I'm inclined to consider them to be fictional characters.

I could see them as mouthpieces for a supreme being, giving them a reassuring form to interact with humans, but there would be no reason I can see to give them free will, or allow for fallen angels.

And ... as the OP asks ... why do you think you're in the minority?

 

[Sorn]

I don't consider this ...

Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

... as improvement.

All that DNA did was make them taller, stronger, and gave them extra fingers (and toes?); and it made them volatile as well.

Well 'improvement' is a relative term of course. Read what i wrote please.

You assumed the angels could NOT imitate human DNA 100%. I am saying they could but CHOSE not too.

They thought it would be an improvement, and it was in the sense that they were superhuman, but if after a time they fight among themselves etc, then its just normal greed, lust for power etc. that takes hold, ie power is might. Just goes to show that crafting a good personality may be more than just great DNA / genes.

Also the bit about the 'earth being corrupt' before God may refer to God not being happy about the genetic contamination that was occurring as no doubt Nephilim DNA would be spreading throughout the population (probably out breeding normal humans etc). Hence before all humanity was contaminated with Nephilim DNA (so that later Jesus could not be fully man) God wiped the slate clean again and kept a few genticaly pure humans (ie Noah etc)

 

[AV1611VET]

Read what i wrote please.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Do you think it's quite possible that Paul Bunyan was a real person ... and a Nephilim?

 

[Yttrium]

And ... as the OP asks ... why do you think you're in the minority?

A great majority of people have a capacity for faith that I lack.

 

[cloudyday2]

So you're saying the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6 are responsible for "conscious-ing" their husbands into existence and, ultimately, corrupting all flesh on the Earth?

David fought Goliath, whose DNA could be traced back to a Nephlim, who was the offspring of one of these "angelic consciousnesses."

The purpose of an angel in the Bible is to lift the consciousness of a human towards God's will. Essentially a human enters an altered state of consciousness where physical senses are less important and God's will is more important, and that change of consciousness is described as an encounter with an angel. (This is just an idea in an attempt to reconcile evolution an angels. They are not actual creatures but an intersection between a human and God's will.)

If an angel is a focus of human consciousness onto God's will, then a fallen angel might be a focus of human consciousness onto opposing God's will. An encounter between daughters of men and fallen angels is describing women who oppose God's will. The offspring of this encounter is a desire to be great in this carnal world and thus there are Nephilim / giants / legendary heroes driven by carnality and ego rather than submission to God.

(I'm just making this up as I go, but at least I am trying LOL)

 

[AV1611VET]

A great majority of people have a capacity for faith that I lack.

Perhaps you just need to, as they say, let go and let God?

I take it you're an intellect? (that was meant as a compliment and sincere question)

 

[AV1611VET]

(I'm just making this up as I go, but at least I am trying LOL)

Well I have to give you an A for originality!

Who is Satan, in your opinion?

 

[Yttrium]

Perhaps you just need to, as they say, let go and let God?

I'm good with that approach. Hasn't helped so far, though.

I take it you're an intellect? (that was meant as a compliment and sincere question)

I'm no philosopher. I wouldn't know Kant from... that other guy, what's-his-name. I just usually take a mathematical-style approach to things.

 

[AV1611VET]

I just usually take a mathematical-style approach to things.

Did you see the divine layout of the books of the OT?

Post 349

 

[Yttrium]

Did you see the divine layout of the books of the OT?

Post 349

Yeah, makes ya wonder if the Catholics planned it that way. But you can come up with numerical patterns in just about anything if you work at it.

 

[Strathos]

If you believe in angels and evolution, explain how they came about.

If you don't believe in angels, explain why you're in the minority.

Angels are spirits. Spirits don't have DNA or reproduce, and thus don't evolve.

 

[AV1611VET]

Angels are spirits. Spirits don't have DNA or reproduce, and thus don't evolve.

So God created them unabridged right from the get-go?

Could He have done the same with mankind?

 

[Hans Blaster]

LOL! You got me. OK, Here's one for you: If you believe in angels and the kinetic theory of gases, explain how they came about.

We have no evidence that he (AV) does.

 

[public hermit]

If you believe in angels and evolution, explain how they came about.

If you don't believe in angels, explain why you're in the minority.

I do find the theory of evolution compelling. I believe in angels. I believe angels are created ex nihilo. Pace Aquinas, unlike material beings, angels are not beings of hylomorphic composition, i.e. compound of matter and form. Moreover, angels are not differentiated by kind. Each angel is its own species, i.e. no possibility of common ancestry. Therefore, evolution as it pertains to material beings need not apply to angels.

For reference
https://www.jesus-passion.com/angels.htm

 

[Hans Blaster]

Perhaps you just need to, as they say, let go and let God?

Do people say that?

I don't recall hearing that. But, different cultural experiences...

 

[AV1611VET]

Do people say that?

I don't recall hearing that. But, different cultural experiences...

QV please: Let Go and Let God