Why was the cross necessary?

[Scott Husted]

YOu are not that ignorant or naive.

We are all apostolos in that we are all sent!

But only 14 ever held the office of Apostolos as master builders of teh church and you nor I are one of them! But I think you knew that and are just being contentious,

My purpose is never to be contentious ... there is no profit in it, even if Paul did settle for it.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul referred to knowledge that he could not put into words which obviously included the only words he had to go on to begin with.

There is so much more that people pass by simply because they refuse to pick up their own cross in relationship to their own mind.

 

[pescador]

My purpose is never to be contentious ... there is no profit in it, even if Paul did settle for it.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul referred to knowledge that he could not put into words which obviously included the only words he had to go on to begin with.

There is so much more that people pass by simply because they refuse to pick up their own cross in relationship to their own mind.

Translation... 2 Peter 3:15-16, "And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures."

There is nothing that says that Paul "referred to knowledge that he could not put into words", only that some of what he wrote are hard to understand.

 

[Scott Husted]

Translation... 2 Peter 3:15-16, "And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures."

There is nothing that says that Paul "referred to knowledge that he could not put into words", only that some of what he wrote are hard to understand.

Wasn't meaning that verse ... that was in response to Paul always speaking in a way that people understood him.

The other was about 2 Corinthians 12:4

 

[honey badger]

Well I have learned that after over 45 years of walking with the Lord, I know of no hidden mystical meanings hiding behind the plain teachings of Scripture.

Hundreds have done this, all claiming special revelation, all claiming a walk with god and all disagreeing with one another!

The mysteries of teh kingdom are found in the parables, unless you wish to add your meanings to teh scores of others who claim special knowledge.

By the way have you sold everything you own, given it to the poor and are folowing Jesus?

The words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.

i am not giving my own measure to Gods word, which is to say i do not lean on my own understanding/interpretation of them, for me i had very little to unlearn/overcome/sell regarding all the false doctrines men have come up with by their own reasoning/measurement of the scriptures, but none the less i still had/have to keep my women still and not let her usurp authority over my spirit in order to see the revelation of the mystery, which has been kept secret since the world began ....

 

[pescador]

The words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.

i am not giving my own measure to Gods word, which is to say i do not lean on my own understanding/interpretation of them, for me i had very little to unlearn/overcome/sell regarding all the false doctrines men have come up with by their own reasoning/measurement of the scriptures, but none the less i still had/have to keep my women still and not let her usurp authority over my spirit in order to see the revelation of the mystery, which has been kept secret since the world began ....

Having been married for over 50 years I'm saddened that you think it's necessary to "keep my women [plural?] still and not let her usurp authority over my spirit". That is not God's will but your own. Apparently (sadly!) you do "lean on my own understanding/interpretation of them". May God have mercy on you.

 

[honey badger]

Having been married for over 50 years I'm saddened that you think it's necessary to "keep my women [plural?] still and not let her usurp authority over my spirit". That is not God's will but your own. Apparently (sadly!) you do "lean on my own understanding/interpretation of them". May God have mercy on you.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

the women is a representation of our soul ....

 

[nolidad]

Yet the church prefers we follow it's doctrines.

Which church are you speaking of? If we are following Christ then we must give all diligence to inspect what doctrines are being taught and reject the ones that are not found in Gods INspired Word!

Every single church and sect is imperfect. But we must weigh how far a church has removed itself from SCripture as one determiner if we can fellowship there.

Especially when the gentile church needed one of it's own to follow rather than the other way around.

Well Paul was
THE Apostle to the gentiles and He was very very Jewish. But I am convinced you are thinking something further down the line than the Apostolic age.

 

[nolidad]

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

the women is a representation of our soul ....

Back in the 60's I would be asking you what you were on for you are talking very very psychedelic here.

 

[nolidad]

My purpose is never to be contentious ... there is no profit in it, even if Paul did settle for it.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul referred to knowledge that he could not put into words which obviously included the only words he had to go on to begin with.

There is so much more that people pass by simply because they refuse to pick up their own cross in relationship to their own mind.

And once again all your mystic mumbo jumbo language profits not one soul here but yourself!

1 Corinthians 13
King James Version
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Charity would compel you to speak in a way the people her can understand, unless you are intentionally wishing to be cryptic.

 

[honey badger]

Back in the 60's I would be asking you what you were on for you are talking very very psychedelic here.

For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit, life and peace,because the mind of the flesh is hostility toward God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, for not even can it be.

 

[nolidad]

The words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.

i am not giving my own measure to Gods word, which is to say i do not lean on my own understanding/interpretation of them, for me i had very little to unlearn/overcome/sell regarding all the false doctrines men have come up with by their own reasoning/measurement of the scriptures, but none the less i still had/have to keep my women still and not let her usurp authority over my spirit in order to see the revelation of the mystery, which has been kept secret since the world began ....

Then let me ask you this.

Why is your revelation of the mystery more accurate than say
1. Jim Jones.
2. David Koresh
3. Sun Yung Moon
4. Charles Taze Russel.
5. Jospeh Smith
6. Brigham Young
7. Father Divine
8. Mary Baker Eddy.
9. Ellen G. White
10. Sanat Kumbala

Amongst hundreds of others that have spouted the same thing you just did????

Why are you right and they all wrong?

And what parts am I wrong in? So far all you have done is talk like a Christian version of Mahareeshi Mahesh Yogi!

For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit, life and peace,because the mind of the flesh is hostility toward God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, for not even can it be.

Yes that is correct! But what has that got to do with the pricew of milk or anything on this thread we are talking about??????

 

[honey badger]

Then let me ask you this.

Why is your revelation of the mystery more accurate than say
1. Jim Jones.
2. David Koresh
3. Sun Yung Moon
4. Charles Taze Russel.
5. Jospeh Smith
6. Brigham Young
7. Father Divine
8. Mary Baker Eddy.
9. Ellen G. White
10. Sanat Kumbala

Amongst hundreds of others that have spouted the same thing you just did????

Why are you right and they all wrong?

And what parts am I wrong in? So far all you have done is talk like a Christian version of Mahareeshi Mahesh Yogi!



Yes that is correct! But what has that got to do with the pricew of milk or anything on this thread we are talking about??????

because the books have become a singular cohesive narrative to me, each part speaking to the whole

 

[timothyu]

Which church are you speaking of?

All in general. Rules are for members and set each church apart.

 

[timothyu]

THE Apostle to the gentiles and He was very very Jewish.

They didn't see him as that and they kinda thought by his words he disagreed with Peter on things, so one could assume he was pro gentile to them. Did anyone ever figure out if instead of stoning the followers as Saul, he ,diverted them away from the Temple to a new religion to keep the Temple 'pure', because basically down the line that is what happened even if it was not Paul's intention.?

 

[Hmm]

if the Jews had done their job and saw to these punishments there would have been no one left in the Promised Land.

That conjured up an image of the entire country being imprisoned for crimes like repeated speeding with only one prison guard left on the outside!

the sinner is not willing to go through the atonement process of being disciplined (crucified with Christ) often explaining it away as something God required for Himself, then does that sinner really want forgiveness?

I would be interested to know how you would describe what being crucified with Christ means, and what do we need to do on our part? Is it a turning away from our previous life and making a commitment to make Him the new centre or something more than this?

Your example of the fair and just discipline applied to the boy by making him restore the vase he broke with his loving father did help me see, or glimpse, how that would help build a good relationship between them.

Your correspondence with your friends in China sounds very interesting. It must mean a great deal to them to have someone to talk to about these matters. I'll pray they stay safe.

 

[bling]

That conjured up an image of the entire country being imprisoned for crimes like repeated speeding with only one prison guard left on the outside!

Most if not all need to be stoned, but that is lots of work for one good guard.

I would be interested to know how you would describe what being crucified with Christ means, and what do we need to do on our part? Is it a turning away from our previous life and making a commitment to make Him the new centre or something more than this?

Your example of the fair and just discipline applied to the boy by making him restore the vase he broke with his loving father did help me see, or glimpse, how that would help build a good relationship between them.

Your correspondence with your friends in China sounds very interesting. It must mean a great deal to them to have someone to talk to about these matters. I'll pray they stay safe.

Think about how God felt while Christ was on the cross. He could stop it at any time, so there is an added pain going on for Him. Our crucifixion “with Christ” is like watching our child being cruelly tortured and murdered for a crime we committed.

Remember that intense pray of Christ’s in the Garden? All we have of that pray is what we do need to know and that is Christ, personally, did not want to go through the crucifixion and asked if there was any other way to get out of it. God out of empathy for Christ would have, personally, felt the same way. Just think, if you had been able to fulfill your earthly objective without sinning, Christ would have not had to go to the cross for you, but would you have also established another way? Could God have looked down the corridor of time seen you sinless fulfilling your earthly objective establishing another way. You personally could have kept Christ from going to the cross, so you personally and individually are responsible for Christ going to the cross. How do you feel about that?

When you think about Christ crucified there will be a death blow to your heart Acts 2:37 the very worst feeling you can experience and live. There is at the same time the greatest Love possible being experienced which allows you to remain standing. We have the privilege and honor of going through this same experience as we take communion (each week?). It puts a new perspective on our sins and Christ’s and God’s Love.

Thank you, for you praying for the young men and some of their wives and families in China. I could also use prays to say the right thing, when you do not hear back for a week you do not know if what you said was taken right. My family helps me and it is good to have two Chinese Daughter-in-laws.

 

[Scott Husted]

And once again all your mystic mumbo jumbo language profits not one soul here but yourself!

1 Corinthians 13
King James Version
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Charity would compel you to speak in a way the people her can understand, unless you are intentionally wishing to be cryptic.

Actually their pretty straight forward answers to your reply ... with some encouragement that there is much more for people to experience, if one is willing.

Curious you quote Paul but don't seem to accept Peter's evaluation of some of the things Paul wrote ... or do you?


The question "Why was it necessary?" Is a needful question when the book states that you can reason with God and become clean by it ... but if that's to big for you to swallow by all means spit it out, it really doesn't matter to me.

 

[nolidad]

Actually their pretty straight forward answers to your reply ... with some encouragement that there is much more for people to experience, if one is willing.

Curious you quote Paul but don't seem to accept Peter's evaluation of some of the things Paul wrote ... or do you?


The question "Why was it necessary?" Is a needful question when the book states that you can reason with God and become clean by it ... but if that's to big for you to swallow by all means spit it out, it really doesn't matter to me.

As long as your reasonings do not contradict the revealed will of God called the Bible! the reason why Peter said Pauls words were hard to be understood is not because there is some sub-mystical meaning underneath the clear texts of the words written, but simply because Jesus + 0 is hard for the natural mind to accept!

 

[nolidad]

because the books have become a singular cohesive narrative to me, each part speaking to the whole

As they have with most believers and allegedly the cults and the men and women I listed. What makes your mystical interpretations any more right than the people I listed? They declare the Bible isa singular cohesive narrative as well. But their mystical interpretations are different than yours. So why are you right and they wrong????

 

[nolidad]

All in general. Rules are for members and set each church apart.

Well my church has rules for organization, membership and stuff like that, but the rules we have for conducting ourself as a local assembly of believers are all biblically based.