WELS, LCMS, and respecting older members

[kdm1984]

I'm a 35 (soon to be 36) year old woman who is currently confirmed and attending an LCMS church. My family were members of WELS in the early 1990s growing up, and I always have fond memories of those days. I think my family took a turn for the worse when they left, and so I've hoped for more conservative ways, especially as I've gotten older and seen the efficacy of firm lines drawn in the sand.

With that in mind, while I've had good experiences at the local LCMS church I go to (which seems to be one of the more truly conservative LCMS churches), I'm more concerned about some of the behavior and beliefs I'm seeing from the younger generation of LCMS members, especially online in places like "chats." "Pastors" are allowing youth to run wild, swear at older members in their "online chats," and nothing is done about it -- in fact, the behavior of the youth is rationalized and defended! Those of us in our upper thirties and older are told not to invoke our age and experience in discussions on deep topics because it "provokes" younger members, who are then allowed to cuss us out, say they don't give an [expletive] about what we say, and we're even told to "shut up." I don't see 1 Timothy 5 being applied properly in such a situation.

I understand the primary doctrinal differences between WELS and LCMS, and I'd be more than happy to accept and subscribe to these -- I don't care if I'm allowed to vote, so long as I receive more respect from younger members, in a more conservative setting. I believe in firm demarcations between older and younger members, and that 1 Timothy 5 should be upheld. Seeing "pastors" rationalize disrespectful behavior from youth, is not something I expect from conservative branches of Christianity.

So are younger members expected to respect older ones within WELS? Are these 1 Timothy 5 mandates and principles upheld consistently by pastoral authorities? Will I see more conservative and orderly behavior here than I have in some more liberal LCMS circles?

Thanks for helping me with any of these questions!

 

[LizaMarie]

Hello, I was raised and confirmed in LCMS-Now attend a WELS Church. Taught Sunday School, VBS and my kids attended our Lutheran pre-K through 8 School. NO it wouldn't be tolerated in my church or school but:
Honestly I can't see that kind of behavior being tolerated in ANY Church of any denomination, what you reported I find shocking, honestly. I think I would speak to the Pastor or Church council and failing that, yes I would look for another church.

 

[kdm1984]

Thanks. I do have a local WELS, and I've reached out to them via e-mail. I've also asked the local LCMS church for input on what happened.

That said, I've since learned more information about the evasive "pastor" who runs the chat, and he's considerably younger than me. I do think there's a bit of bias toward defending behavior of those in his age group, behavior that is shocking to those who are older, and which would not be tolerated in such circles. Generation gaps are real, and the kind of behavior he finds acceptable, is not acceptable to most older Millennials, Gen X, and other more mature groups.

 

[LizaMarie]

Yes I would seriously doubt this is representative of most LCMS churches or any church.

 

[tampasteve]

It honestly sounds like an issue that could happen anywhere, but should not happen in any Christian church. Upper staff need to take responsibility and handle the situation with this man.

 

[Athanasius377]

Thanks. I do have a local WELS, and I've reached out to them via e-mail. I've also asked the local LCMS church for input on what happened.

That said, I've since learned more information about the evasive "pastor" who runs the chat, and he's considerably younger than me. I do think there's a bit of bias toward defending behavior of those in his age group, behavior that is shocking to those who are older, and which would not be tolerated in such circles. Generation gaps are real, and the kind of behavior he finds acceptable, is not acceptable to most older Millennials, Gen X, and other more mature groups.

I would report the issue to the Elders and the Sr Pastor and see if that clears things up. If not don't be afraid to go to the district level because someone needs to know what is happening. That said, if it doesn't get resolved at the parish level I too would find another church.

 

[tampasteve]

I would report the issue to the Elders and the Sr Pastor and see if that clears things up. If not don't be afraid to go to the district level because someone needs to know what is happening. That said, if it doesn't get resolved at the parish level I too would find another church.

This, 100%.

 

[kdm1984]

Thanks.

I went to the local church to get input on what happened, esp since I cannot verify the pastoral credentials of the person who ran the chat. However, even regardless of establishing the credentials of the person who ran the chat, I learned that the Sr pastor and Assoc pastor aren't even in agreement on what happened. The Sr pastor sees my side of it 100%, while the Assoc sees the side of the person who ran the chat.

I've been in contact with WELS as well. They are actually in agreement with their perspective, and see it with the "old school" eyes in which I was taught by my own formerly WELS-affiliated mother.

This is the turning point for me in establishing that I really should have gone to WELS. As I went further into the LCMS, especially in recent months, I've found lots of disagreement and little compromise on issues like this, and others, including even doctrine. I'm honestly beyond frustrated at this point. There's too much inconsistency applied.

However, I did, in fact, find a WELS church in my city. I was baptized when young at WELS. Clearly I should have made the jump back a couple of years ago instead of thinking LCMS would be a fair compromise (I wasn't even sure if the WELS church in my city was still operating; I should've checked more carefully). I especially have had lots of difficulty seeing eye-to-eye with the younger LCMS members. It's been a disaster, and this was the last straw.

I'm off to WELS this Sunday and will inquire about the next steps. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[LizaMarie]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I think you will like the WELS. The only issue I have is the women voting issue but ehhh that's not that big of a deal for me.

 

[FaithT]

I'm a 35 (soon to be 36) year old woman who is currently confirmed and attending an LCMS church. My family were members of WELS in the early 1990s growing up, and I always have fond memories of those days. I think my family took a turn for the worse when they left, and so I've hoped for more conservative ways, especially as I've gotten older and seen the efficacy of firm lines drawn in the sand.

With that in mind, while I've had good experiences at the local LCMS church I go to (which seems to be one of the more truly conservative LCMS churches), I'm more concerned about some of the behavior and beliefs I'm seeing from the younger generation of LCMS members, especially online in places like "chats." "Pastors" are allowing youth to run wild, swear at older members in their "online chats," and nothing is done about it -- in fact, the behavior of the youth is rationalized and defended! Those of us in our upper thirties and older are told not to invoke our age and experience in discussions on deep topics because it "provokes" younger members, who are then allowed to cuss us out, say they don't give an [expletive] about what we say, and we're even told to "shut up." I don't see 1 Timothy 5 being applied properly in such a situation.

I understand the primary doctrinal differences between WELS and LCMS, and I'd be more than happy to accept and subscribe to these -- I don't care if I'm allowed to vote, so long as I receive more respect from younger members, in a more conservative setting. I believe in firm demarcations between older and younger members, and that 1 Timothy 5 should be upheld. Seeing "pastors" rationalize disrespectful behavior from youth, is not something I expect from conservative branches of Christianity.

So are younger members expected to respect older ones within WELS? Are these 1 Timothy 5 mandates and principles upheld consistently by pastoral authorities? Will I see more conservative and orderly behavior here than I have in some more liberal LCMS circles?

Thanks for helping me with any of these questions!

I’m 59 and recently joined the LCMS, coming from Catholicism. I’ve had no online interaction with our teens except once there was something put up online where we could communicate but somebody, teenage or older, ruined that by bashing my church. My pastor got right on it by deleting the conversation.
I don’t think we have a WELS in my area.

 

[Athanasius377]

Thanks.

I went to the local church to get input on what happened, esp since I cannot verify the pastoral credentials of the person who ran the chat. However, even regardless of establishing the credentials of the person who ran the chat, I learned that the Sr pastor and Assoc pastor aren't even in agreement on what happened. The Sr pastor sees my side of it 100%, while the Assoc sees the side of the person who ran the chat.

I've been in contact with WELS as well. They are actually in agreement with their perspective, and see it with the "old school" eyes in which I was taught by my own formerly WELS-affiliated mother.

This is the turning point for me in establishing that I really should have gone to WELS. As I went further into the LCMS, especially in recent months, I've found lots of disagreement and little compromise on issues like this, and others, including even doctrine. I'm honestly beyond frustrated at this point. There's too much inconsistency applied.

However, I did, in fact, find a WELS church in my city. I was baptized when young at WELS. Clearly I should have made the jump back a couple of years ago instead of thinking LCMS would be a fair compromise (I wasn't even sure if the WELS church in my city was still operating; I should've checked more carefully). I especially have had lots of difficulty seeing eye-to-eye with the younger LCMS members. It's been a disaster, and this was the last straw.

I'm off to WELS this Sunday and will inquire about the next steps. Thanks everyone for the input.

Did the Sr Pastor at least shut down the chat or at least place some folks under discipline?

 

[kdm1984]

All I know is the chat was looked into. But there were very different perspectives about what went on. With that kind of inability to agree, and with some of the things I've seen lately from LCMS communities online, I made a firm decision to move onto WELS.

 

[Athanasius377]

All I know is the chat was looked into. But there were very different perspectives about what went on. With that kind of inability to agree, and with some of the things I've seen lately from LCMS communities online, I made a firm decision to move onto WELS.

I don't blame you then. I know our Pastor wouldn't stand for that kind of behavior. And neither would the elders nor the laity. I hope the WELS body you are part of now is much better.

Question, If I block out your personal info can I use your OP as a case when I meet with our Sr Pastor over online behavior?

 

[kdm1984]

Yes, that would be fine.

 

[Silverback]

I'm a 35 (soon to be 36) year old woman who is currently confirmed and attending an LCMS church. My family were members of WELS in the early 1990s growing up, and I always have fond memories of those days. I think my family took a turn for the worse when they left, and so I've hoped for more conservative ways, especially as I've gotten older and seen the efficacy of firm lines drawn in the sand.

With that in mind, while I've had good experiences at the local LCMS church I go to (which seems to be one of the more truly conservative LCMS churches), I'm more concerned about some of the behavior and beliefs I'm seeing from the younger generation of LCMS members, especially online in places like "chats." "Pastors" are allowing youth to run wild, swear at older members in their "online chats," and nothing is done about it -- in fact, the behavior of the youth is rationalized and defended! Those of us in our upper thirties and older are told not to invoke our age and experience in discussions on deep topics because it "provokes" younger members, who are then allowed to cuss us out, say they don't give an [expletive] about what we say, and we're even told to "shut up." I don't see 1 Timothy 5 being applied properly in such a situation.

I understand the primary doctrinal differences between WELS and LCMS, and I'd be more than happy to accept and subscribe to these -- I don't care if I'm allowed to vote, so long as I receive more respect from younger members, in a more conservative setting. I believe in firm demarcations between older and younger members, and that 1 Timothy 5 should be upheld. Seeing "pastors" rationalize disrespectful behavior from youth, is not something I expect from conservative branches of Christianity.

So are younger members expected to respect older ones within WELS? Are these 1 Timothy 5 mandates and principles upheld consistently by pastoral authorities? Will I see more conservative and orderly behavior here than I have in some more liberal LCMS circles?

Thanks for helping me with any of these questions!

IMHO, their parents should be told about it by an Elder in the congregation. If they are of adult age, then an Elder needs to speak to them. If their bad behavior does not stop, then they should face church discipline.