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If i keep sinning am i not saved ?

GenemZ

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In this sea of bickering and telling each other they are wrong you showed up and said what needed to be said thank you for this God had you write this for me im going to go read my Bible right now God bless you ! And have a great day.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

After all, we are we not bothers and sisters in Christ? We are the household of God.

When we are not walking in the Spirit we will walk as we would be as an unbeliever.... Though, as a "religious" unbeliever - quoting Scripture and sowing discord as they wish to gain ascendancy in their game of king of the mountain.

Paul had to deal with the same kind of problem...

18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church,
there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No
doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you
have God’s approval." 1 Cor 11:18-19​


Only some of the saved are going to have God's approval. That means? Many walk in a manner not of God's approval. Its going to be wood, hay, and stubble... Or? Gold, silver and precious stones.


11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold,
silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for
what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with
fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what
has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned
up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved
—even though
only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Cor 3:11-15​


Many will be facing shame when the Lord evaluates us in our resurrection bodies. For many refused to follow God's will, and did it their own way - wood, hay, and straw.


grace and peace.....
 
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GenemZ

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Many good insights are presented in these posts, but nobody has mentioned clinical depression yet. When one's health fails and his money all gone; depression becomes common among believers and will cause you to make some very bad choices. Even with those choices, God's hand is not shortened, Stay prayed up, change is coming.

All money is gone is no excuse...

If God leads you into the Truth there is the way out.

One example:


R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary
contributions. There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested.
When gratitude for the Word of God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of
contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home


There have been testimonies of those considering suicide who found this ministry. There are other ministries, too. Through prayer and seeking to understand God's Word for this generation answers will not be refused.

Clinging to false doctrine puts a huge lock on the prison of depression, while inviting others to join you in your cell.
 
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Beanieboy

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Can we discuss the elephant in the room?

When I see posts like this, I believe what is unspoken is: The post asks if I keep sinning, ie am glbt, ie "living a glbt lifestyle", am I saved. The heterosexual person then makes that the focus, ratger than their own sin.

cf no longer longer allows discussion about homosexuality, with the reason hat not opposing it promotes it. I agree to disagree.

But here are my problems:
Sin is not acting in love toward your neighbor.
Stealing doesn't respect your neighbors property.
Killing doesn't respect your neighbor's life.
Gossip is badmouthing your neighbor without the opportunity to defend themselves.

If you quote Leviticus, putting gay people in the Old Covenant while you say you are in the New, is that loving your neighbor?
If someone says that he wishes he could kill all the gay people, is that loving?
Is abusing the bible to justify it following God? .
The bible says people who divorce and remarry are living in adultery. Do you accuse them also of willfully sinning?
is is using the bible truthfullt to say Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for homosexuality soecifically when most scholars believe it was the intended rape (to dearf) of the angels? Is it truthful to not ask why they didn't want Lot?
Is it loving to your neighbor who is lgbtq to tell them that God hates them (abomination) and commands their death? If it lead to a person becoming suicidal, are you held responsible?
Does your church have a strict policy of all unmarried members to not be sexually active? Or does it just focus on gay people?
Is it truthful to say Pride is celebrating sin, when it is a celebration of gaining equal rights under the law?

Is the focus of these posts loving and edifying if their point is to claim you sinning was accidental, unintentional, by claiming someone else does it intentionally, and therefore, doesn't count?
Why was the Pharisee who bragged to God about how he kept on the commandments, and so glad he wasn't like the tac collector, not honored by God?
 
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yellowMan

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Not true. You are taking Hebrews 12:14 out of context.



The words of Jesus that say, “sin no more” are just as equally true as his words to the Pharisees to cast a stone if they are without sin.

We all have sinned at one point in our lives. Believers who are faithful to the Lord have sinned against the Lord as a part of their past life before they came to Christ. So they obviously are not without sin, but they can “sin no more” (in regards to grievous sin, which are sins that the Bible clearly condemns with warnings of hellfire and condemnation) in their present tense walk with God (after being saved by God's grace).

Now, I have no problem believing both truths expressed in John 8. But you have to ignore the words of Jesus that say, “sin no more” in order to make your belief work. I don't have such a problem. I just read and believe all of what Jesus has said and I do not seek to change His words or de-emphasize them in any way. All of what He said was true. So no. You are taking Scripture out of context to make your belief work here, dear sir.



To the OP:

Have you actually thought about Jesus words "sin no more" when he said that to a few people during his earthly ministry? Is it possible to "sin no more" while we are on earth? No it is not, that is quite obvious. So then what did Jesus mean? Well since we can't stop sinning completely (while we have earthly bodies), then we should probably do the next best thing which would be to avoid sin as best we can (with the Holy Spirit's help of course).

Read Romans 7 about ten times. Paul's(greatest Christian of all time) hates the fact that he continues to sin. Actually read Romans 5-8 for more details.
 
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Dansiph

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The love Jesus preaches is acting in love.
That is how you love even strangers. For me, it would be the manner you speak to me.
I get you it's just not something I say to people often is what I meant. Felt a bit odd. I love people of course though.

I try to speak to people nicely but on here I get agitated more easily. I can lose my cool sometimes. There's no excuse really.
 
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Freed Man

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Not true. You are taking Hebrews 12:14 out of context.

First, the verse itself does not support a “Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief” on this verse (or a belief that says we are holy by believing in Jesus and his holiness alone and not in what we do).

Let's read the verse:

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:”
(Hebrews 12:14).

The verse says:

(a) Follow peace with all men, and:
(b) Follow holiness​

Without which no man shall see the Lord.

Okay. So even if you wanted the word “holiness” in this verse to refer to “believing in the holiness of Jesus and not what I do or despite my sin” the words “follow after peace with all men” is still in the verse and is a problem for your belief to resolve. In other words, if a believer is not “following after peace with all men,” then they will not see the Lord. “Follow after peace with all men,” suggests something I have to do. For sometimes we have to reconcile with men sometimes in order to make peace with them. We have to love our enemies (by our loving actions) in order to maintain peace between us and them. If not, then no man shall see the Lord.

Second, the whole chapter is talking about sin vs. doing good. It's not talking about just trusting in the holiness of Jesus while we do not have to lift a finger for God or by our sinning. No such context exists in Hebrews 12 that would support this erroneous viewpoint. Surely if you read the chapter recently, you should be aware of this. But you have to isolate verses out of their context to make them work.



Three problems here:

Problem #1. You are wrongfully assuming that the will of the Father is for us to believe in Him alone (When in reality it is the will of the Father to both believe and to cooperate with God in the Sanctification Process).

Problem #2. You automatically wrongfully assume that the Father's will is all who the Father gives to Jesus that He will lose nothing (even if they sin).

Problem #3. You are unaware of select words that appear in John 6 that should not exist if a “sin and still be saved belief” was true.​

While it is true that the will of the Father is to believe on Him (Jesus) of which the Father sent (John 6:29), this would imply not only believing in the person of Jesus for salvation but it would imply believing in doing what He told us to do, as well. For if we disobey Jesus, we really do not trust in Him or believe in Him.

Also, what is another aspect of the will of the Father?

It is Sanctification.

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

The Father is God in this verse. So the context of Sanctification in this verse is living holy because it refers to how a believer is to abstain from fornication. So our Sanctification is the will of God the Father, and not just a belief alone in Jesus that is devoid of any loyalty to Him. For even the demons believe and tremble.

John 6:37-40 says,

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."​

First, what does Jesus mean by,

“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”

Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.

Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,

"I WILL lose nothing."

However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,

"I SHOULD lose nothing."

John 6:39 (KJV) says,

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40

"MAY have everlasting life".

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?

Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.

John 17:12 says:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."​

Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.​

And OSAS terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.​

Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?


Old Source Link Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/
(Note: Website no longer active)



What verse or passage tells you that?



Actually, the verse that says where Jesus cleanses us from all sin is 1 John 1:7; But I doubt you believe what it says because it runs contrary to your belief. 1 John 1:7 says:

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7).

So while we do need to receive Jesus as a part of our Initial Salvation, we also have to walk in the light as He is in the light, too.
For by walking in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

What is walking in the light mean?

According to 1 John 2:9-11, it is essentially saying (using indirect words) that walking in the light = loving your brother.

In other words, we have to love our brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin. More proof?

1 John 3:15 says, “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

1 John 3:10 says, “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

Boom. Your world view should be tumbling down like a ton of bricks right now if you truly believe these verses plainly.



The words of Jesus that say, “sin no more” are just as equally true as his words to the Pharisees to cast a stone if they are without sin.

We all have sinned at one point in our lives. Believers who are faithful to the Lord have sinned against the Lord as a part of their past life before they came to Christ. So they obviously are not without sin, but they can “sin no more” (in regards to grievous sin, which are sins that the Bible clearly condemns with warnings of hellfire and condemnation) in their present tense walk with God (after being saved by God's grace).

Now, I have no problem believing both truths expressed in John 8. But you have to ignore the words of Jesus that say, “sin no more” in order to make your belief work. I don't have such a problem. I just read and believe all of what Jesus has said and I do not seek to change His words or de-emphasize them in any way. All of what He said was true. So no. You are taking Scripture out of context to make your belief work here, dear sir.

Thank-you for all that explanation of why you think we can lose our Salvation. And I just wanted to clarify that point, that the basics of what we are talking about is whether we can lose our Salvation or we are saved forever. I won't get into detail of every point that you made but I would like to start by saying that the counsel the bible gives us on what to do and how to live our lives after we are saved is different than what the bible says about how to be saved. But just because Jesus requires us to do a lot of things in the course of our service for Him does not mean that those things are a requirement to get saved or to stay saved. Here are some verses that tell us how to be saved. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt Be saved, and thy house.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10
For by Grace are ye saved through Faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

There is nothing in any of these verses that deal directly with Salvation and how to be saved that says or even implies that you have to obey a whole regimen of rules and regulations in order to be saved or to stay saved. In fact, just the opposite: "Not of works." There are things and commandments that Jesus commands us to do in our service for Him. But that doesn't mean that if we make a mistake and disobey sometimes or commit some sin that we're going to lose our Salvation.

There's no such thing as a sin and still be saved type of belief. You're saved because you repent of your sins and accept Jesus attonement and blood Sacrifice for your sins and, therefore, Jesus cleanses you from all sin. After you are saved you're not a sinner any more and cannot sin because you are born of God. IJohn 3:9.But then you quote the beginning of the verse, "If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ God's son cleanses us from all sin". As if "Walking in the Light" is some kind of works that we're supposed to accomplish before we can get saved. Who is the Light of the world? Jesus. We walk in the Light by believing in Jesus, the Light of the world. Only Jesus saves us. To say that we have to obey a whole slew of commandments before we can be saved is to say that we have to earn and work for our Salvation and that we can save ourselves by having good works. That's a false doctrine and unscriptural.
 
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Freed Man

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Let's read the verse:

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:”
(Hebrews 12:14).

The verse says:

(a) Follow peace with all men, and:
(b) Follow holiness
Without which no man shall see the Lord.

Holiness in this context means to believe in Jesus. You become Holy by believing in Jesus, not by obeying a whole slew of commandments.
 
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Dansiph

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I'm not trying to be snide but I am worried at the amount of people saying you can lose your salvation. More worrying is that people who believe this don't think they've lost their salvation. My belief is that if we could lose our salvation we would in about five minutes. Please read this link I posted earlier, this is what you'd have to do to lose your salvation:

How a Christian can Lose Salvation: 14 Step Plan
 
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Dansiph

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Freed Man

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Problem #1. You are wrongfully assuming that the will of the Father is for us to believe in Him alone (When in reality it is the will of the Father to both believe and to cooperate with God in the Sanctification Process).

Problem #2. You automatically wrongfully assume that the Father's will is all who the Father gives to Jesus that He will lose nothing (even if they sin).

Problem #3. You are unaware of select words that appear in John 6 that should not exist if a “sin and still be saved belief” was true.
While it is true that the will of the Father is to believe on Him (Jesus) of which the Father sent (John 6:29), this would imply not only believing in the person of Jesus for salvation but it would imply believing in doing what He told us to do, as well. For if we disobey Jesus, we really do not trust in Him or believe in Him.

Also, what is another aspect of the will of the Father?

It is Sanctification.

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).
The Father is God in this verse. So the context of Sanctification in this verse is living holy because it refers to how a believer is to abstain from fornication. So our Sanctification is the will of God the Father, and not just a belief alone in Jesus that is devoid of any loyalty to Him. For even the demons believe and tremble.
It is not wrong to assume that the Father's will is to believe in Jesus and that by believing in Jesus He will raise us up at the last day. It is wrong to assume otherwise because the verse says the Father's will is to believe in Jesus so He can resurrect us at the last day so we can live with the Father forever. Jesus will lose none of us who believe in Him because that's what it says. I don't know what select words you're talking about in John 6 that shouldn't be there if the once saved always saved doctrine were true. I don't have a "sin and still be saved belief". I believe we have to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus so He can wash us from our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I don't believe we can be saved by our works, cause that's what the bible says.

Yes. If we love Jesus we will obey Him. So, what are Jesus' commandments? It's not a long list that will take a few hours to read. John explains it in his first epistle. "For this is the Love of God, that we should keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grievous." IJohn 5:3

"And this commandment have we from Him, that he who loveth God love his brother also. IJohn 4:21

This next verse sums it up: "And this is His commandment that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and Love one another as He gave us commandment. IJohn 3:23.

And, as Jesus said, "A new commandment I give unto you that ye love another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love one toward another." John 13:35-35 "This is my commandment that ye love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

It's important here to affirm what it means to Love one another as Jesus loved us. Love is forgiveness. We love Him because He first loved us. How? by dieing for us and taking our punishment for us so that we wouldn't have to be punished for our sins. In other words, forgiving us for our sins. After all, since we're all sinners and undeserving of God's glory and perfection in Heaven then that means that the only way to be saved is to be forgiven for our sins and have righteousness automatically imputed up us by Faith. It's not a case of having a "sin but still be saved belief". It's a case of having all your sins erased and washed clean by the blood of Jesus. So we are saved, not by working hard at it, or being obedient enough to deserve it, but by being forgiven for our sins. In the same way, we're supposed to have a loving forgiving attitude towards each other. The problem with some people, you for example, who believe we have to have good works in order to be saved is that your very attitude is one of an unloving, judgmental, condemning attitude towards others who you see are not walking as you feel a Christian should. That judgmental attitude is one of the worst sins of all. "Judge not and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned, forgive and ye shall be forgiven." Mathew 7:1 But I'm sure you don't see it cause you're blinded by your self-righteous.
 
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God is good777

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Read the Gospel for yourself, and don’t get swept away by other people’s teaching. Ask God to show you what Salvation means and He will show you in His Word. I’ve asked God many questions regarding His way and teachings I don’t understand - and He answered. Seek His face (Gospel) for this wisdom.

I also got severely swept up in people’s doctrines instead of investigating the Truth for myself and I got absolutely no where. Just a bunch of confusion and that is not from God. It wasn’t until later on in my life that after I fully surrendered my life to Jesus Christ (I thought I had before but I hadn’t. I had one foot in the world while the other was in His world. We need to be rooted fully in Him so we are lead by His Spirit), that He made known to me His wisdom in His Word. :yellowheart:
I believe I have put all my faith in Jesus and am not leaning on the world's understanding but what if im like you were and im not actually will one say Jesus help me to completely if im not yet even tho i believe I am ? Im sorry if my question is confusing im just wondering.
 
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Freed Man

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John 6:37-40 says,

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
First, what does Jesus mean by,

“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”
Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.

Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,

"I WILL lose nothing."
However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,

"I SHOULD lose nothing."
John 6:39 (KJV) says,

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40

"MAY have everlasting life".
John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?

Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.

John 17:12 says:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.
And OSAS terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.
Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?
Here, your really grasping at straws, because you're trying to use and/or change the definition of words to justify you're viewpoint. It seems like your trying to say that because it says "may have everlasting life" that Jesus is saying that God may or may not give a person eternal life by believing in Jesus. Are you saying If a person believes in Jesus he will have eternal life if he deserves it but he won't have everlasting life if he doesn't? That's the part that's unscriptural because nobody deserves it. We're all undeserving sinners, which is why forgiveness for our sins is what it's all about. In the right context these verses mean that God's will is for everybody who believes in Jesus to have everlasting life and be raised up at the last day. To say that some people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life and others who also believe in Jesus won't have eternal life is a misinterpretation of these passages, to say the least.

In John 17:12 where it says "none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." remember Jesus called Judas, the son of perdition, meaning the son of the devil. And, as He said in John 6" Have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil? He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. For he it was that should betray Him, being one of the 12." The point being that Judas was never a true disciple from the beginning. Jesus only chose him and kept him in order to fulfill the scriptures. It's not a case of being saved and then losing his Salvation. It's a case of never being saved in the first place. John talks of this kind of people in his epistle. "They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us; they would no doubt have continued with us. but they went out; that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." IJohn 2:19 So, they were lost because they weren't true saved Christians in the first place. So, again, not a case of being saved and losing Salvation. It's a case of not being saved in the first place.

So, to me, OSAS still makes plenty of sense. We're not talking about marbles. Judas wasn't one of the saved whom God gave to Jesus. Judas was a child of the devil who had to hang around in order that the scripture could be fulfilled. And as it says in another place, God even creates the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16:4
 
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Beanieboy

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Can we discuss the elephant in the room?

When I see posts like this, I believe what is unspoken is: The post asks if I keep sinning, ie am glbt, ie "living a glbt lifestyle", am I saved. The heterosexual person then makes that the focus, ratger than their own sin.

cf no longer longer allows discussion about homosexuality, with the reason hat not opposing it promotes it. I agree to disagree.

But here are my problems:
Sin is not acting in love toward your neighbor.
Stealing doesn't respect your neighbors property.
Killing doesn't respect your neighbor's life.
Gossip is badmouthing your neighbor without the opportunity to defend themselves.

If you quote Leviticus, putting gay people in the Old Covenant while you say you are in the New, is that loving your neighbor?
If someone says that he wishes he could kill all the gay people, is that loving?
Is abusing the bible to justify it following God? .
The bible says people who divorce and remarry are living in adultery. Do you accuse them also of willfully sinning?
I don't know him personally but I believe he's my Brother in Christ.

The Bible does mention hate? Especially in the Imprecatory Psalms and Ecclesiastes.

You are free to willingly follow him. I would suggest praying for discernment,
but, regardless of him, how would you stand before Jesus, who says, "I told yiy to love your neighbor as yourself", and say in response? Would you be able to justify hate? When he reminds you that all men would know you were his disciples by the love you show one another, could you then justify hatred?

Food for thought.
 
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GenemZ

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Can we discuss the elephant in the room?

When I see posts like this, I believe what is unspoken is: The post asks if I keep sinning, ie am glbt, ie "living a glbt lifestyle", am I saved. The heterosexual person then makes that the focus, ratger than their own sin.

cf no longer longer allows discussion about homosexuality, with the reason hat not opposing it promotes it. I agree to disagree.

But here are my problems:
Sin is not acting in love toward your neighbor.
Stealing doesn't respect your neighbors property.
Killing doesn't respect your neighbor's life.
Gossip is badmouthing your neighbor without the opportunity to defend themselves.

If you quote Leviticus, putting gay people in the Old Covenant while you say you are in the New, is that loving your neighbor?
If someone says that he wishes he could kill all the gay people, is that loving?
Is abusing the bible to justify it following God? .
The bible says people who divorce and remarry are living in adultery. Do you accuse them also of willfully sinning?
is is using the bible truthfullt to say Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for homosexuality soecifically when most scholars believe it was the intended rape (to dearf) of the angels? Is it truthful to not ask why they didn't want Lot?
Is it loving to your neighbor who is lgbtq to tell them that God hates them (abomination) and commands their death? If it lead to a person becoming suicidal, are you held responsible?
Does your church have a strict policy of all unmarried members to not be sexually active? Or does it just focus on gay people?
Is it truthful to say Pride is celebrating sin, when it is a celebration of gaining equal rights under the law?

Is the focus of these posts loving and edifying if their point is to claim you sinning was accidental, unintentional, by claiming someone else does it intentionally, and therefore, doesn't count?
Why was the Pharisee who bragged to God about how he kept on the commandments, and so glad he wasn't like the tac collector, not honored by God?


The OT Law did two things. It DEFINED sins. And, mandated the consequences for those sins as called for.

We do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. What the Law called sin, is still sin.

As far as homosexuality? Under the Law in Israel they were to be executed. No longer so under grace for the whole world.

Yet? Paul said that being an active homosexual in God's eyes still warrants the mandates of the Law, though today its not to be carried out.

32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those
who
do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things, but approve and applaud others who practice them." Rom 1:32


That's like the liberal lying media and education system we have propagandizing us today!

"they not only continue to do these very things, but approve and applaud others who practice them." "
 
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Dansiph

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Can we discuss the elephant in the room?

When I see posts like this, I believe what is unspoken is: The post asks if I keep sinning, ie am glbt, ie "living a glbt lifestyle", am I saved. The heterosexual person then makes that the focus, ratger than their own sin.

cf no longer longer allows discussion about homosexuality, with the reason hat not opposing it promotes it. I agree to disagree.

But here are my problems:
Sin is not acting in love toward your neighbor.
Stealing doesn't respect your neighbors property.
Killing doesn't respect your neighbor's life.
Gossip is badmouthing your neighbor without the opportunity to defend themselves.

If you quote Leviticus, putting gay people in the Old Covenant while you say you are in the New, is that loving your neighbor?
If someone says that he wishes he could kill all the gay people, is that loving?
Is abusing the bible to justify it following God? .
The bible says people who divorce and remarry are living in adultery. Do you accuse them also of willfully sinning?


You are free to willingly follow him. I would suggest praying for discernment,
but, regardless of him, how would you stand before Jesus, who says, "I told yiy to love your neighbor as yourself", and say in response? Would you be able to justify hate? When he reminds you that all men would know you were his disciples by the love you show one another, could you then justify hatred?

Food for thought.
I wouldn't say I follow Pastor Anderson, this will sound cliche but I try to follow God. I have watched a lot of his sermons but not so much for a while. I branched out and found I liked a more God-centred message mainly as opposed to sin focused. Both are important though.

The thing with love is, when I read about God in the Bible he's a merciful, loving God but he also has wrath and anger. Jesus in the Bible is stern a lot of the time. I don't get the idea that everything's about love from the Bible.

Then you've got who are we to love? You can argue all people and I don't really have an argument against it. It's a valid interpretation to me. However as I have said the Bible does talk about hate. Psalm 139 spefically states "I hate them" talking about God's enemies. The confusing thing I recently realised is.

It says:

Psalms 139:21-22 KJV
(21) Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
(22) I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

So some people argue yes we are to hate enemies of God. But this mentions that they are also David's enemies "mine enemies". I am not saying there's a contradiction but if they're our enemies then should we not love them however this verse says "I hate them".
 
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I believe I have put all my faith in Jesus and am not leaning on the world's understanding but what if im like you were and im not actually will one say Jesus help me to completely if im not yet even tho i believe I am ? Im sorry if my question is confusing im just wondering.

Most are going to encourage you that you can sin and still be saved on some level all because you have a belief alone on Jesus. Don't listen to them. Even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). Yes, we can be forgiven of our sin if we happen to stumble on occasion by confessing our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9), but we should not have the mindset that we will always sin as a way of life or as a matter of fact. The Bible teaches that we can overcome grievous sin. Just read Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, John 5:14, John 8:11, 1 Corinthians 10:13, Psalms 119:11, Romans 6:6-8, Romans 6:12, Romans 6:14, etc.).

Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

In other words, we cannot justify grievous sin, but we must battle against grievous sin and seek to overcome it.
 
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When I see posts like this, I believe what is unspoken is: The post asks if I keep sinning, ie am glbt, ie "living a glbt lifestyle", am I saved. The heterosexual person then makes that the focus, ratger than their own sin.

cf no longer longer allows discussion about homosexuality, with the reason hat not opposing it promotes it. I agree to disagree.

But here are my problems:
Sin is not acting in love toward your neighbor.
Stealing doesn't respect your neighbors property.
Killing doesn't respect your neighbor's life.
Gossip is badmouthing your neighbor without the opportunity to defend themselves.

If you quote Leviticus, putting gay people in the Old Covenant while you say you are in the New, is that loving your neighbor?
If someone says that he wishes he could kill all the gay people, is that loving?
Is abusing the bible to justify it following God? .
The bible says people who divorce and remarry are living in adultery. Do you accuse them also of willfully sinning?
"Whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 2:21 Anybody and everybody can be saved regardless of their sin or their degree of sin. All they have to do is call upon the name of the Lord, (Jesus) and repent of their sins and Jesus will receive them with open arms. What sins each of us may or may not be guilty of is actually irrelevant. It's that little word "repent" that people are afraid of. But it's important to tell people that they are sinners so they can get saved. People have to acknowledge that they are sinners before they can be saved.

Jesus said in one place, "The world cannot hate you but me it hates because I testify of it that the works thereof are evil." So Jesus did come to tell the world that everybody is an evil sinner, but not for the purpose of condemning them for those sins. As he said in John 3:17 "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him should be saved."

"Greater Love hath no man than this, that a man lay down His life for His friends." John 15:13 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
God lovingly sent Jesus into the world to die for our sins and take our punishment upon Himself. And Jesus willingly and Lovingly gave His life to save us. Therefore, the person who preaches Jesus can never really be a judgmental hypocrite because in preaching Jesus he is not condemning people for their sins he is telling people how to be saved from their sins. It is Love to preach Jesus even if the people you are preaching to are offended by it.

So, why do so many people reject Jesus even though they know and have been told, as I am telling you right now, that it will make the difference between burning in Hell or living in a Heavenly paradise? Well, Jesus answers that question for us: "This is the condemnation, that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light lest His deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth Truth cometh to the Light that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God." JOHN 3:18-20. So, it's because they don't want to have to repent of their sins. They don't want the Light of the world, Jesus, to expose them for the evil sinners they actually are instead of the righteous people they try to make themselves out to be.

What sins each of us may or may not be guilty of does not determine our place in Heaven. Peoples acceptance of Jesus is what determines they're saved have a place in heaven, and peoples rejection of Jesus is what determines that they will be condemned to be punished for their own sins. Because they didn't accept Jesus' atonement for their sins.
 
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