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30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

FineLinen

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I'm sorry brother, but you are reading your own desires into scripture.
I have been resting my weary being on the Father of all fathers now for 63 years. I know He can be trusted to be & do what a wonderful Father is & does.

If you behold this glorious One as the God of unending torment you must continue to enjoy Him in that nasty horizon!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."




 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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The anathemas of Justinian are not part of the original council and do not count. Modern scholarship has found them to be of spurious origin and discounts them entirely.

You really need to read up on this council and just how wickedly Justinian acted in convening it and acting more like a pagan king than a Christian brother in what he did.


Orthodox Saints for July


July 25

• Commemoration of the holy 165 Fathers of the Fifth Ecumenical Council (553 A.D.)


This council was held in Constantinople during the reign of Justinian the Great. The council Condemned the various forms of monophysitism, the heretical writings of Theodore of Mopsuestia and Theodoret, And The Writings Of Origen (particularly on universal salvation).




NPNF2-14 The Capitula of the Council.

• The Capitula of the Council

11.

"IF Anyone Does Not Anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: Let Him Be Anathema. "

.
 
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Light of the East

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The Fifth Ecumenical Council, or Constantinople II, has become the source of much contention in recent years due to the increasing investigation of all that took place in this council. From the website, Papal Encyclicals Online, * we find the following information regarding this council:


The council did not debate ecclesiastical discipline nor did it issue disciplinary canons. Our edition does not include the text of the anathemas against Origen since recent studies have shown that these anathemas cannot be attributed to this council.

In a word, they are BOGUS!!

* Second Council of Constantinople – 553 A.D. - Papal Encyclicals
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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The Fifth Ecumenical Council, or Constantinople II, has become the source of much contention in recent years due to the increasing investigation of all that took place in this council. From the website, Papal Encyclicals Online, * we find the following information regarding this council:


The council did not debate ecclesiastical discipline nor did it issue disciplinary canons. Our edition does not include the text of the anathemas against Origen since recent studies have shown that these anathemas cannot be attributed to this council.

In a word, they are BOGUS!!

* Second Council of Constantinople – 553 A.D. - Papal Encyclicals

Here's a Catholic Source for you :

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Constantinople (A.D. 553)

.
 
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Light of the East

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Orthodox Saints for July


July 25

• Commemoration of the holy 165 Fathers of the Fifth Ecumenical Council (553 A.D.)


This council was held in Constantinople during the reign of Justinian the Great. The council Condemned the various forms of monophysitism, the heretical writings of Theodore of Mopsuestia and Theodoret, And The Writings Of Origen (particularly on universal salvation).




NPNF2-14 The Capitula of the Council.

• The Capitula of the Council

11.

"IF Anyone Does Not Anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: Let Him Be Anathema. "

.

You really need to do some historical study on this issue. Have you read the works of Origen? He had some rather strange theologumen, such as the resurrected bodies existing as spheres, that we pre-existed before being born, etc. His idea of Apokatastasis was as follows:

Canon One of Justinians's additions to the council:

IF anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema.


This first canon is the one that is most popularly quoted against Apokatastasis, yet it has nothing to do with it IF you read the canon properly. Premise: there is a pre-existence of souls. 2nd premise: there is a “monstrous restoration” which follows from the idea that souls pre-existed before being created here on earth.

This is not a teaching which is in any way part of Apokatastasis. This is a bizarre theologumenon, that is, this is Origen’s private opinion on a matter. You will not find this idea in any of the writings of the Early Fathers who taught Apokatastasis. Which leads to another point.

For the first five hundred years of the Church, Apokatastasis was taught alongside two other teachings - Eternal Torment, taught in the West, and Annihilation - without a single breath of the word “heresy” ever being uttered. Indeed, if it were the heresy that modern day hellists claim it to be, there would have been a council a loooooooong time before Constantinople II. It was simply not an issue. In the Middle East in the first five centuries of the Church, three of five theological schools in existence taught Apokatastasis. They did not cease until Emperor Justinian closed them down because he despised the teaching.

What the hellists are trying to do is called “guilt by association.” It is the idea that because Origen had strange ideas that were bizarre and contradicted orthodox Christianity, and because he mentioned Apokatastasis in one of those ideas ( i.e. the restoration of all souls to a pre-existent state), therefore Apokatastasis must be wrong also. Well, let’s look at the rest of this idea. Origen was a Trinitarian, so obviously the teaching of the Trinity must be wrong, since he was a theological whack-job. If Origen accepted the Nicene Creed as truth, then could it be that the Creed is wrong? If a gentleman by the name of Bob Smith robs a bank, is every Bob Smith a bank robber? Do you see how that works? This is guilt by association, and it is a wrong-headed way to approach this argument.

This canon, along with 14 others, according to Papal Encyclicals Online, are spurious in nature and not counted as part of the original. They have as much theological weight as the Robber's Council.
 
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Light of the East

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I quoted you a Catholic source which denies the legitimacy of the 15 additional canons of Justinian.

BTW - Perhaps you could tell me why Constantinople II and the councils that followed refused to anathematize Gregory the Great, St. Isaac the Syrian, St. Gregory of Nyssa, and other who had openly taught Apokatastasis. You know good and darn well that no council had any problem with going back and issuing post-mortum anathemas against heretical writings and those who promoted them, yet they are absolutely MUM about these men when naming names.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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I quoted you a Catholic source which denies the legitimacy of the 15 additional canons of Justinian.

BTW - Perhaps you could tell me why Constantinople II and the councils that followed refused to anathematize Gregory the Great, St. Isaac the Syrian, St. Gregory of Nyssa, and other who had openly taught Apokatastasis. You know good and darn well that no council had any problem with going back and issuing post-mortum anathemas against heretical writings and those who promoted them, yet they are absolutely MUM about these men when naming names.

Universalism Is Heresy.

.
 
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Light of the East

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From the website: The Fifteen Anathemas Against Origen.

The Ten Anathemas against Origen of 543 were written ten years before the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

This in itself should be alarming. Emperor Justinian was not a bishop, did not have the theological promise of the guidance of the Holy Spirit which was given by Christ to the Apostles in John's Gospel, and show a distinct dislike of Origen for political reasons. Not the least of these reasons is that Justinian wanted to unite a warring and fractious Roman Empire, along with retaking lands lost to the pagans in order to restore the glory of Rome. Such sympathies cannot be aligned in any sense with coming to theological truth. It is, rather, using religion to further one's earthly goals, much the same as the Roman popes did after the Schism of 1054 AD and the Papal Reformation. Justinian was consumed with a desire for power and authority so that the empire could be restored.

They consist of a letter with appended anathemas written by the Emperor Justinian to the Patriarch Menas. Justinian quotes from Origen’s De Principiis in order to expose Origen’s errors in detail, and he concludes with ten anathemas summarizing the condemned doctrines. The errors condemned in the Ten Anathemas include the following: the preexistence and fall of souls through satiety (κόρος) of divine contemplation, and their chastisement through descent into bodies (Anathema 1); the preexistence of Christ’s soul (2); the uniting of Christ’s body with both his preexistent soul and the divine Word (3); that Christ assumed the form of all the heavenly powers (4); that in the world to come Christ will also be crucified for the demons (7); that the resurrected body will be spherical and immaterial (5); that the celestial bodies (sun, moon, stars, and firmament) are ensouled, reasoning beings (6); that the power of God is limited or that creation is eternal (8); and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) of demons and evil human beings will put an end to temporal punishment (9).

Notice how the Apokatastasis of Origen is different from that of St. Gregory of Nyssa or St. Isaac of Syria. It is attached to the eight bizarre theologumen which Justinian rightly attacked. Now why would Justinian have a problem with God's mercy being wide enough to bring all to repentance eventually?

Here is part of the letter in which the Emperor commanded the patriarch to convene a synod to condemn the teachings of Origen. To it he appended the nine anathemas that were eventually confirmed by the 543 Synod of Constantinople.One main problem for Justinian was that he was concerned that it would make the subjects of the empire unmanageable. Here’s the passage:

"It will render men slothful, and discourage them from keeping the commandments of God. It will encourage them to depart from the narrow way, leading them by deception into ways that are wide and easy."


Weaponizing God

The Fifteen Anathemas of 553 are similar in form to the Ten Anathemas of 543: They, too, consist of a letter from the Emperor Justinian with attached condemnations. In this letter Justinian writes to the council fathers “concerning Origen and his sympathizers,” to warn them about the teachings of certain monks of Jerusalem whom he describes as devotees not only of Origen, but also of Pythagoras and Plotinus. Associated with his letter are fifteen anathemas which until recently were commonly appended to the fourteen canons of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, though modern academics assert that these fifteen additional anathemas were not part of the original conciliar decrees.

Hitler in Constantinople

So Justinian wrote 15 anathemas against Origen and the Origenists (a group of monks who were causing him no small amount of headaches with their teachings) BEFORE THE COUNCIL????? That alone should have the warning bells and sirens screaming! Justinian overstepped his proper bounds, being neither a bishop nor any form of apostolic successor of the Apostles. Modern scholarship has raised such serious questions regarding these "canons" that they refuse to acknowledge them any more.

Yet I am going to be fighting with the Orthodox on this till my dying day because just like Roman Catholics, beliefs come first and when facts and history show differently, well, BELIEFS STILL COME FIRST!
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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NPNF2-14 The Capitula of the Council.


• The Capitula of the Council


11.

"IF Anyone Does Not Anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: Let Him Be Anathema. "

.
 
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BNR32FAN

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This is a pretty standard answer, but it lacks addressing the main issue, that is, how God can be sovereign and still bring all to repentance so that all are saved.

I have an answer for you, if you would care to read it:

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

He doesn’t bring all to repentance. Your under the impression that God gets everything He wants and that is certainly not true. God didn’t want to destroy mankind in the flood but it was necessary to carry out His plan. God wanted man to repent and obey but they didn’t. God wants everyone to obey but we don’t. If God always got everything He wanted then Christ would’ve never had to die on the cross, satan and his demons would’ve never fallen from heaven, Adam & Eve would’ve never ate the forbidden fruit, and we’d all still be living in the garden of Eden. Man has CONSTANTLY disappointed God literally since creation. From the very first man & woman right down to the very last with only one exception which is Jesus Christ. The Bible is packed full of God’s disappointments from beginning to end.
 
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BNR32FAN

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This is a pretty standard answer, but it lacks addressing the main issue, that is, how God can be sovereign and still bring all to repentance so that all are saved.

I have an answer for you, if you would care to read it:

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

The problem I see with this explanation is that it assumes that people will repent in the afterlife and that if God had condemned these souls to eternal punishment that it would be unjust. If God had deemed for the punishment to be eternal then it could not possibly be unjust. God being omniscient and omnipresent would have just reasoning for condemning these souls for all eternity that we cannot foresee. So if God has deemed that some will perish for all eternity then I have to trust that He has a good reason for it because I know that He is just.
 
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nolidad

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Give me a break! ! ! !

The Father of all fathers, whose Name is Abba, does no such thing!

Not even Charles Bronson can make your position right before God!

Not just "a restitution" !

The Restitution of the God of Glory, whose purpose within Himself, shall be fulfilled in absolute detail.

Every last digit !

Yes it will! It is just that you are like :

https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-con...tone-675b5ee2-f229-4a5b-87e1-690ed6987a43.jpg

Clueless as to Gods plan!
 
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FineLinen

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Clueless as to Gods plan!

The Plan of all plans is before your poor blind eyes & deaf ears.

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
 
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Light of the East

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He doesn’t bring all to repentance. Your under the impression that God gets everything He wants and that is certainly not true. God didn’t want to destroy mankind in the flood but it was necessary to carry out His plan. God wanted man to repent and obey but they didn’t. God wants everyone to obey but we don’t. If God always got everything He wanted then Christ would’ve never had to die on the cross, satan and his demons would’ve never fallen from heaven, Adam & Eve would’ve never ate the forbidden fruit, and we’d all still be living in the garden of Eden. Man has CONSTANTLY disappointed God literally since creation. From the very first man & woman right down to the very last with only one exception which is Jesus Christ. The Bible is packed full of God’s disappointments from beginning to end.

You do realize you just made a heretical statement, according to several various catechisms currently in use, right?
 
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Gup20

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I have been resting my weary being on the Father of all fathers now for 63 years. I know He can be trusted to be & do what a wonderful Father is & does.

If you behold this glorious One as the God of unending torment you must continue to enjoy Him in that nasty horizon!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
[Gen 3:14-19 NASB] 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel." 16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you." 17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."​

God curses the animals, the people, the ground - all of creation - because of Adam's sin. This is Adam's judgement. What did the animals do? What sin did the ground perform? Adam's judgement was universal. It was a valid and just judgement so long as no sinless people would ever be found. But then Jesus came and live a sinless life, and so Adam's judgement must be repealed.

[Rev 5:4-5 NASB] 4 Then I [began] to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; 5 and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals."

[1Co 15:21-22, 26 NASB] 21 For since by a man [came] death, by a man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. ... 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

[Rom 5:16, 18 NASB] 16 The gift is not like [that which came] through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment [arose] from one [transgression] resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift [arose] from many transgressions resulting in justification. ... 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Notice Romans 5:16. It says the gift is NOT like the transgression. On the one had, one man sinned rusulting in condemnation. On the other hand, the free gift arose from many transgressions. It occured to me that, to undo death for ALL of mankind who are under Adam's death, you would only have to forgive 1 sin. But what does this say? The gift of grace doesn't cover the one sin, it covers many sins. In other words, Jesus' sacrifice covers the SECOND judgment, not the first.

But when it says in Adam all die, but in Christ, all will be made alive, it is talking about the resurrection. The resurrection is an undoing of Adam's judgment. Since Christ's work on the cross doesn't cover the first judgement, but the second it must mean that Adam's universal judgement is repealed in lieu of individual judgements.

Jesus will judge the church:

[Mat 25:31-34 NASB] 31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.​

Then God will judge the world in the great white throne judgement - an individual judgement. In this judgement, the earth and the animals are not judged.

[Rev 20:11-15 NASB] 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one [of them] according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
We know that the animals and earth will be restored.

[Isa 65:25 NASB] 25 "The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.

[Rom 8:18-23 NASB] 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.​

The resurrection of man, the redemption of the animals, the ground, and all of creation can all be accomplished by a repeal of Adam's judgement. We know from 1 Corinthians 15:26 that Adam's judgement will be abolished. This does not negate nor preclude the possibility of a second, individual judgement to follow. Universalists conflate the repeal of Adam's corporate judgement with the redemption of Christ's second judgment.
 
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Light of the East

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The problem I see with this explanation is that it assumes that people will repent in the afterlife and that if God had condemned these souls to eternal punishment that it would be unjust. If God had deemed for the punishment to be eternal then it could not possibly be unjust. God being omniscient and omnipresent would have just reasoning for condemning these souls for all eternity that we cannot foresee. So if God has deemed that some will perish for all eternity then I have to trust that He has a good reason for it because I know that He is just.

What proof do you have that souls are incapable of repenting in the next life?

Yes, but God did not deem punishment to be eternal. Scripture does not support this. Unless, of course, you use worthless translations of the Greek which came from Augustine's errors with the Greek that he admitted he did not understand.
 
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Light of the East

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Not even Charles Bronson can make your position right before God!



Yes it will! It is just that you are like :

https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-con...tone-675b5ee2-f229-4a5b-87e1-690ed6987a43.jpg

Clueless as to Gods plan!

So let's see. God, who is love - that is, ONTOLOGICALLY that is what He is - out of His own will and with no external conditions or beings forcing Him to do otherwise, creates beings whom He foreknows (being omniscient) will fall into sin, separate themselves from him, and pass this separation on to all generations yet to come. He foreknows that because of this, these beings shall suffer eternally in unspeakable torments, yet He goes right ahead and creates all this. You then must say that it is His will not that all be saved, as 1 Timothy 2:4 says, but rather that most all be damned and suffer forever, for action presupposes will. That is, we take certain actions which are consistent with that which we have willed.

If I create a piece of stained glass to hang in my window, then it was my will not only to create it, but to create it in a certain pattern, with certain colors, and with a certain shape. All actions are an expression of will. Therefore, you must say that God's will was, as the heretical Calvinists state, to create mankind with the express purpose of damning the majority of them to suffer forever.

And this is love how?

Your turn.
 
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FineLinen

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I have been resting my weary being on the Father of all fathers now for 63 years. I know He can be trusted to be & do what a wonderful Father is & does.

If you behold this glorious One as the God of unending torment you must continue to enjoy Him in that nasty horizon!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."




I will again repeat what I have posted with the following added...

I could sooner be a Turk, a Deist, yes an athiest, than I could believe the unending torture dogma of those who behold the Father of all fathers as an almighty tyrant.
 
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Jord Simcha

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I won’t have to explain anything because He already knows why I believe in eternal punishment.
Okay. You may have to give an account of it though.
 
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FineLinen

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What proof do you have that souls are incapable of repenting in the next life?

Yes, but God did not deem punishment to be eternal. Scripture does not support this. Unless, of course, you use worthless translations of the Greek which came from Augustine's errors with the Greek that he admitted he did not understand.

He has absolutely none.

He, like others on these threads, is a firm devotee of the God of limited.

The Lords mercy endures forever (with no expiratory date).

Yup, there comes a time when forever comes to an end.

I the Lord loves you, but you must respond asap.

After that, too bad so sad, away with you.
 
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