30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

[FineLinen]

The rich young ruler didn't. Some of Jesus' disciples started to follow then turned away, John 6:66.
Jesus even warned about such things; "no one who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is fit for service in the Kingdom of God", Luke 9:62.
He also said that no one starts something without making sure that they are able to finish the task, Luke 14:28-33.

Jesus always gave the invitation, "come". He didn't force people and he didn't tell any who turned away "never mind, you'll be saved one day."

The Lord Jesus Christ does indeed not force anybody to come. What He does is draw/dragoff/ impel all mankind to come by the power of helkō.

You will find the word mathētḗs has a broad meaning as one who is a learner. Many of the Masters learners were pupils who followed His teaching. Many were among the Jews who favoured Him & joined the party, becoming adherents of the Lord of glory.

To the departure of many, the Master declares "will you also go?"

True disciples have one answer.

Where will we go, You alone have the words of aionios zoe.

 

[Strong in Him]

If not all receive the free gift how will they experience great joy because of it?

They won't.

I think both desires (free will + all be saved) are compatible.

I don't see how.
If someone rejects God and continues to reject God, how will they be saved? In Scripture, people are urged to "accept the message now, before it is too late", Luke 12:20-21; Luke 13:3; Acts of the Apostles 2:40; Hebrews 9:27. What would be the point of preaching repentance before death if everyone had a second chance after it?

5. Is translated in other translations as "He does whatsoever He pleases". If hell is real, it must please Him to send people there.

No; he simply honours the choice that people have made during their lives.
If someone hears the Gospel decides to reject it and throughout the rest of their lives they continue to reject it, saying that they don't want to know God; when they die, they have made the choice to live for eternity without him. How would it be loving, at that point, to say "no; you hated and rejected me, but now you have to live for eternity with me"? That would be hell for them, and not possible unless they repented and received eternal life at that point.
But all the Scriptures indicate that we are to believe and have faith in God before we die.

If not all will believe, He won't be Saviour of all. simple as that.

He is Saviour for all; his death is for everyone. But not everyone will realise it.
Some will choose to say "he's not my Saviour; I can do it my way". It doesn't alter the fact that Jesus died for them and is the only way to God.

Good point. But we don't know that he was really drawn to Jesus, but that he wanted eternal life.

The point is that he approached Jesus, wanted something that Jesus could give him and chose to walk away because the price was too high.

If not all will respond (truth be told I believe 90+% will not before their physical death) the free gift doesn't come unto all men.

It is FOR all; some choose not to accept it.

Incidentally, when I talk about "rejecting God" I believe that only he knows who has truly, deliberately, rejected him. Some may appear to reject him but are, in fact, rejecting the church - or they may reject the idea that they have, or someone has given them, about God. It's not for us to judge.

Not how I interpret it. I see that all (living) things will be gathered together in Christ.
To me, it is a prophecy.

It may be, but equally it may not.
Other Scriptures show that the latter is probably true.

True, they must accept Christ. Most will perish. What this means though is where we differ.
Because I don't think this perishing negates the reconciliation part. It must be a way of perishing/being destroyed with perspective to becoming reconciled, is my conclusion.

So we are agreed that unbelievers will perish - but you think it is only a temporary perishing? That they will somehow be rescued/come to faith before they are completely destroyed?

To be testified in due time whenever that may be. could be milennia from now

Yes, it could be; how does that change anything?

Remember that God's purpose can't be thwarted? If the purpose of Jesus is to save the world, and God's plan can not be thwarted (also not by free will), then it must follow that the world will be saved.

Jesus came to die and make it possible for mankind to be reconciled to God.
He has done that.
The wages of sin IS death - but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus.
God does want all to believe in him, John 6:29, John 6:40. What father wouldn't want his children to know, and feel secure in, his love? But he doesn't force anyone.
Like I said, he told Adam what he could do - eat from any tree in the garden except one - but left it to Adam to obey, or not. He didn't make Adam a puppet, give him an electric shock if he touched the fruit or forcibly yank him away if he went anywhere near the tree. Adam knew God for himself. It wasn't that he heard about him second or third hand and decided that he didn't sound very nice; he had been created by God and given the task of naming all the animals. He had also heard God speak, and knew perfectly well what he wanted. But he chose to disobey, and God let him. God had chosen to let Adam choose - and he didn't give up on Adam, nor on mankind, when the wrong choice was made.

I have hope that all will be saved. God says hope does not disappoint.

It depends what the hope is and what it is in.
Many hope to win the lottery, hope that evil dictators will be punished, that crime will disappear, that riots, muggings, stabbings etc will cease, and thousands hope that their own good deeds will get them to heaven. It won't happen for everyone, and may not happen at all.

How can that be, when everyone who believes and confesses shall be saved?

The sad fact is that not everyone will believe and confess.

They may do after death, when they can see him - but anyone can have faith in God when they can see God right in front of them. Scripture says that we live by faith and not by sight, 2 Corinthians 5:7, and Jesus said to Thomas, "you believe because you have seen me; blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe", John 20:29.

Personally, I was very frustrated when evangelizing when I still believed in hell. Now I am indeed more relaxed about it.

I don't see how anyone can evangelise without a belief in hell - otherwise the Good News becomes, "you may live exactly how you wish; you will be reconciled to God one day anyway."

 

[FineLinen]

Apollumi =

On the following pages you will see the many ways the word "apollumi" is used in the New Testament. You will see that sometimes it is translated "lost" such as in the "lost" sheep, when the sheep was alive. In other places, the same word, "apollumi," is translated "perish" or "destroyed" and the implication in these last two instances is that the individual is dead.

The "Destruction" of the Wicked

 

[Strong in Him]

The Lord Jesus Christ does indeed not force anybody to come. What He does is draw/dragoff/ impel all mankind to come by the power of helkō.

So he doesn't force but "impels"?
He doesn't physically drag people, he just sends his Spirit to "make them an offer they can't refuse"?
Scripture says "whoever believes will not perish", John 3:16. When the rich man died he was in torment and didn't want others to be in that place of torment, Luke 16:22-31. Jesus said in his parable that the goats would go away to eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46, but the righteous to eternal life. He told people that unless they repented they would perish, Luke 13:3.
All through the NT there is a choice; believe in Jesus and receive eternal life, or reject him and don't.
As a poster says, "Know Jesus, know life; no Jesus, no life."

 

[FineLinen]

The punishment here is the lake of fire which is also described as the second death (Revelation 21:7-8). It is the punishment of fire that brings the second death and it's results are eternal in that once your dead your dead forever and that is the punishment.

A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies.

 

[FineLinen]

So he doesn't force but "impels"?
He doesn't physically drag people, he just sends his Spirit to "make them an offer they can't refuse"?

Welcome to the power of helkō!

 

[Jord Simcha]

They won't.

Luke 2:10 says otherwise.

I don't see how.
If someone rejects God and continues to reject God, how will they be saved? In Scripture, people are urged to "accept the message now, before it is too late", Luke 12:20-21; Luke 13:3; Acts of the Apostles 2:40; Hebrews 9:27. What would be the point of preaching repentance before death if everyone had a second chance after it?

Where does it say you can be too late?

Repentance still has meaning in light of universal reconciliation. To have faith is a blessing and it pleases God.

No; he simply honours the choice that people have made during their lives.
If someone hears the Gospel decides to reject it and throughout the rest of their lives they continue to reject it, saying that they don't want to know God; when they die, they have made the choice to live for eternity without him. How would it be loving, at that point, to say "no; you hated and rejected me, but now you have to live for eternity with me"? That would be hell for them, and not possible unless they repented and received eternal life at that point.
But all the Scriptures indicate that we are to believe and have faith in God before we die.

Nobody consciously rejects to live without God for eternity. That would be preposterous. Most reject God based on the false image of Him (namely a God that sends people to eternal hell).

To live with God eternally wouldn't be hell for anybody.

He is Saviour for all; his death is for everyone. But not everyone will realise it.
Some will choose to say "he's not my Saviour; I can do it my way". It doesn't alter the fact that Jesus died for them and is the only way to God.

God knows beforehand whether He will save all or not. To know beforehand that you're not saving everybody but still call yourself Saviour of the world and/or of all men would be insincere.

The point is that he approached Jesus, wanted something that Jesus could give him and chose to walk away because the price was too high.

Okay, but Jesus didn't warn him that he might burn in hell forever if he wouldn't follow Him now did He?

It is FOR all; some choose not to accept it.

Incidentally, when I talk about "rejecting God" I believe that only he knows who has truly, deliberately, rejected him. Some may appear to reject him but are, in fact, rejecting the church - or they may reject the idea that they have, or someone has given them, about God. It's not for us to judge.

I agree and would in fact say that most reject the church(es) not knowing that these churches are probably in the wrong.

It may be, but equally it may not.
Other Scriptures show that the latter is probably true.

And I believe it is supported by other scriptures.

So we are agreed that unbelievers will perish - but you think it is only a temporary perishing? That they will somehow be rescued/come to faith before they are completely destroyed?

Not necessarily a temporary perishing/destruction. People will be humbled, and that may be forever. Once humbled, they might receive God. Because to be humble is a blessing.

Yes, it could be; how does that change anything?

Well, I mean, due time can mean anything, including after death, even the second death.

Jesus came to die and make it possible for mankind to be reconciled to God.
He has done that.
The wages of sin IS death - but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus.
God does want all to believe in him, John 6:29, John 6:40. What father wouldn't want his children to know, and feel secure in, his love? But he doesn't force anyone.
Like I said, he told Adam what he could do - eat from any tree in the garden except one - but left it to Adam to obey, or not. He didn't make Adam a puppet, give him an electric shock if he touched the fruit or forcibly yank him away if he went anywhere near the tree. Adam knew God for himself. It wasn't that he heard about him second or third hand and decided that he didn't sound very nice; he had been created by God and given the task of naming all the animals. He had also heard God speak, and knew perfectly well what he wanted. But he chose to disobey, and God let him. God had chosen to let Adam choose - and he didn't give up on Adam, nor on mankind, when the wrong choice was made.

I don't see how this relates to the quoted part, which concludes God's plans can not be thwarted and that saving the world is exactly the plan.

It depends what the hope is and what it is in.
Many hope to win the lottery, hope that evil dictators will be punished, that crime will disappear, that riots, muggings, stabbings etc will cease, and thousands hope that their own good deeds will get them to heaven. It won't happen for everyone, and may not happen at all.

Unlike those different kinds of hope mine is based on scripture though, those aren't.

The sad fact is that not everyone will believe and confess.

They may do after death, when they can see him - but anyone can have faith in God when they can see God right in front of them. Scripture says that we live by faith and not by sight, 2 Corinthians 5:7, and Jesus said to Thomas, "you believe because you have seen me; blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe", John 20:29.

Interesting bit there said to Thomas don't you think? So it is possible to have seen and believe. It's right there, you posted it yourself.

I don't see how anyone can evangelise without a belief in hell - otherwise the Good News becomes, "you may live exactly how you wish; you will be reconciled to God one day anyway."

You might think so, but the saying goes you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I admit, this is a secular saying as far as I know but it still holds true for the Word of God as well, because it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance (Romans 2:4).

So even if you tell somebody they can do whatever they want they'll still be loved by God in the end and eventually will live forever in peace with God, if they believe you, they're likely to actually repent towards God because of his goodness. Simply put they'll start to love God a little bit more, or maybe a lot more. And this leads to better behaviour, I think.

Thanks for your elaborate reply. I appreciate it.

 

[Strong in Him]

Welcome to the power of helkō!

So you believe.

You still haven't answered my other post.

 

[Strong in Him]

Luke 2:10 says otherwise.

No it doesn't - FOR all people is not the same as, "guaranteed all people will believe"

Where does it say you can be too late?

Acts of the Apostles 2:40.
There would be no need for anyone to save themselves from this corrupt generation if they either had that chance after death, or if all were going to be saved anyway.
Hebrews 9:27 - we die, then there is judgement. 1 Corinthians 3:12-14 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 say the same thing.

Repentance still has meaning in light of universal reconciliation.

Like what?
What's the point of it if everyone will eventually be saved/reconciled to God anyway?

To have faith is a blessing and it pleases God.

But if God is going to reconcile everyone to himself one day, whether they have loved him or rejected him, what does it matter if we please him now?
What was the point of Paul being sent to preach to the Gentiles, being persecuted, stoned, flogged, put in prison etc etc, if all those Gentiles would one day be reconciled to God whether they had heard the Gospel or not? Why didn't he just opt for an easy life?

Most reject God based on the false image of Him (namely a God that sends people to eternal hell).

Yes, I agree with that.
Which is why we can't judge. WE might think they are rejecting God; in fact they might be rejecting the God they see in us or the church or a false image they have of God. Only he knows.
But Scripture is still clear - we are to preach the Gospel and faith in Jesus, even though some will not want to know. When Jesus sent out the 72 he said "if people don't receive you, shake the dust from your feet and move on"; not "they'll be saved anyway so don't worry about it."

To live with God eternally wouldn't be hell for anybody.

It would be if you knew that you had hated and rejected God and died in your sins with no hope of forgiveness.
But if someone believes that, they won't be with God anyway.

God knows beforehand whether He will save all or not. To know beforehand that you're not saving everybody but still call yourself Saviour of the world and/or of all men would be insincere.

To create all people in your image, knowing that you were not going to save most of them, would not be love.

Okay, but Jesus didn't warn him that he might burn in hell forever if he wouldn't follow Him now did He?

He was told what he had to do to receive eternal life; he didn't want to do it.
Jesus didn't say, "don't worry, keep your money and don't have eternal life; you'll get it after you die anyway", did he?

And I believe it is supported by other scriptures.

Well we'll agree to differ then.
Personally I can't see how the Gospel would be the same if someone believes as you do - the Good News would surely be "all will be saved by God, no matter what you believe or how you live here on earth". But that's between you and him.

Not necessarily a temporary perishing/destruction. People will be humbled, and that may be forever. Once humbled, they might receive God. Because to be humble is a blessing.

"May", "might"; you mean you're not sure?

Well, I mean, due time can mean anything, including after death, even the second death.

Scripture says. "Repent and believe the Gospel because after death is judgement."

Interesting bit there said to Thomas don't you think? So it is possible to have seen and believe.

??
Of course people will believe when they can see - I never said otherwise.
Non believers will see God when they meet him after death and know that he is who Christians always said that he was. They will believe in him - but will know also that they never received forgiveness for their sins, that God is holy, that sin cannot enter his presence and that now it's too late for them.
That will be hell - knowing without doubt that God could have forgiven, saved, blessed and given eternal life, but that they now have to live with the knowledge and guilt of their sins, with no forgiveness.

To be continued.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

I found a great sermon related to this subject.

 

[Jord Simcha]

No it doesn't - FOR all people is not the same as, "guaranteed all people will believe"

To all people, great joy. If not all will be saved, I'll be sad. Won't you?
Or will you be too much in ecstacy about your own salvation?

If so, then I take it your salvation must not be so sure to you yet, or you wouldn't be so ecstatic about it any more at that point in time I'd think.

I mean, I totally expect it (eternal life), I look forward to it, expect a lot of it, et cetera, but if I be in heaven without all my family members who happen to be not Christian then where's my great joy that is prophesied?

Acts of the Apostles 2:40.
There would be no need for anyone to save themselves from this corrupt generation if they either had that chance after death, or if all were going to be saved anyway.
Hebrews 9:27 - we die, then there is judgement. 1 Corinthians 3:12-14 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 say the same thing.

Sure there is. I have saved myself if that's how you put it (been saved from) this (current) corrupt generation. I'm happy I was. I'm enlightened now (and probably sin less, which God desires). Even though I am alone in my faith (except through online services like this forum), I feel great, especially when I'm actively involved with Christianity, such as partaking in discussions as these.

Like what?
What's the point of it if everyone will eventually be saved/reconciled to God anyway?

Do you not appreciate your faith (apart from that it saves)?

I do. A lot.

But if God is going to reconcile everyone to himself one day, whether they have loved him or rejected him, what does it matter if we please him now?

Do you not want to please God, apart from doing what's necessary to get saved?

I like pleasing God. It makes me feel good. I believe that is the work of the Holy Spirit in me.
Also, out of love one wants to please another, whether that is or isn't a human being.

What was the point of Paul being sent to preach to the Gentiles, being persecuted, stoned, flogged, put in prison etc etc, if all those Gentiles would one day be reconciled to God whether they had heard the Gospel or not? Why didn't he just opt for an easy life?

He could have, but he felt guilty. It is believed by a lot of people that he worked the hardest out of all the apostles. He still wasn't very pleased with himself though, according to what he has written.

Moreso than his guilt though he obeyed Jesus. It's what he was commanded to do.

Yes, I agree with that.
Which is why we can't judge. WE might think they are rejecting God; in fact they might be rejecting the God they see in us or the church or a false image they have of God. Only he knows.

Well, I believe we can judge (1 Corinthians 2:15), but obviously, God knows better, that's true.

But Scripture is still clear - we are to preach the Gospel and faith in Jesus, even though some will not want to know. When Jesus sent out the 72 he said "if people don't receive you, shake the dust from your feet and move on"; not "they'll be saved anyway so don't worry about it."

Well, moving on requires not to worry about it too much, I suppose.
Especially when it concerned loved ones for example. Move on. They'll be judged.
Stop throwing your pearls if they behave like pigs. You're wasting your time.

It would be if you knew that you had hated and rejected God and died in your sins with no hope of forgiveness.
But if someone believes that, they won't be with God anyway.

To create all people in your image, knowing that you were not going to save most of them, would not be love.

And God is love. 1 John 4:8

He was told what he had to do to receive eternal life; he didn't want to do it.
Jesus didn't say, "don't worry, keep your money and don't have eternal life; you'll get it after you die anyway", did he?

True. Jesus is demanding.

Well we'll agree to differ then.
Personally I can't see how the Gospel would be the same if someone believes as you do - the Good News would surely be "all will be saved by God, no matter what you believe or how you live here on earth". But that's between you and him.

Ha. Well, it isn't (the same). I'd argue it's much better. Feel good only.

When I was already saved but still believed the hell or heaven doctrine that wasn't the case, then it fluctuated. Still felt great at times (the peace of God that surpasses all understanding), but could also panic about hell. Those days are long gone.

"May", "might"; you mean you're not sure?

Well, how sure can we be of its eternal effect? I think it's eternal, but it may be temporary in the sense that they can recover back to being normal/average in their humility.

Scripture says. "Repent and believe the Gospel because after death is judgement."

Yes. And I am happy that I repented and believe because that makes the judgment a lot less confrontational I believe (though it probably still will be that and very humbling).

??
Of course people will believe when they can see - I never said otherwise.
Non believers will see God when they meet him after death and know that he is who Christians always said that he was. They will believe in him - but will know also that they never received forgiveness for their sins, that God is holy, that sin cannot enter his presence and that now it's too late for them.
That will be hell - knowing without doubt that God could have forgiven, saved, blessed and given eternal life, but that they now have to live with the knowledge and guilt of their sins, with no forgiveness.

To be continued.

That fear, yeah, that might be hell indeed.

I believe Revelation 22:17 is their last resort though.

 

[martymonster]

The problem most Christians have, is that they do not understand that there are first fruits and then the rest of the harvest. They assume that just because the vast majority of people won't be in the first resurrection, that they won't be saved at all. This simply isn't the case. In short, it's a failure to understand scripture.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes. You might say that preaching universalism takes a lot more confidence (faith) than preaching hell (just to be safe). An argument from fear therefore.

Preaching universalism doesn't lure people into a false sense of security, because if the arguments work, they will repent (the goodness of God leadeth to repentance).

Again, "hope maketh not ashamed", God's own words, therefore universalists can stand before God without shame for their doctrine.

What about the similarity to Genesis 3:4? I wouldn’t say that preaching salvation regardless of faith or obedience is preaching a gospel of faith. According to Matthew 7:21-27 I would say it’s preaching a gospel of lawlessness. Now I know that universalists encourage everyone to accept Christ in this life. I completely understand that but your still overlooking the possibility that you could be wrong and the eternal consequences that will result from being wrong. Like I said if I’m wrong no big deal but if your wrong there’s no turning back and people will pay the ULTIMATE PRICE. Nothing is more important than salvation and to risk that is absolutely ludicrous. I’d much rather take the safer route than risk it all only to find out the truth when it’s too late to repent. At least I can guarantee that no one will be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity for failing to believe in universalism.

 

[Jord Simcha]

What about the similarity to Genesis 3:4?

The only similarity I see is that you believe both are lies (from the devil).

God said they would die in that day, did they? If so, was it spiritual death?

I wouldn’t say that preaching salvation regardless of faith or obedience is preaching a gospel of faith. According to Matthew 7:21-27 I would say it’s preaching a gospel of lawlessness. Now I know that universalists encourage everyone to accept Christ in this life. I completely understand that but your still overlooking the possibility that you could be wrong and the eternal consequences that will result from being wrong. Like I said if I’m wrong no big deal but if your wrong there’s no turning back and people will pay the ULTIMATE PRICE.

You're right, no big deal as far as eternal consequences of life and death except you may have to defend yourself to Jesus face to face that you actually believed He would torture your unbelieving cousins for all of eternity and He might not like that.

And it is true if you are right about hell and my 73 year old mother is on the broad road of destruction then I should be in panic 24/7 because she would have to pay the ultimate price as you call it but I'm not in panic at all because of God's great promises. That's why I indicated it takes some courage to preach universalism because you can bet everybody who preaches it is aware of that, that you would have to stand before God knowing you lead people to hell if you were wrong.

Nothing is more important than salvation and to risk that is absolutely ludicrous. I’d much rather take the safer route than risk it all only to find out the truth when it’s too late to repent.

Yes it is ludicrous to risk it, still, I kind of did until I was 35 and it felt totally natural, and not despairing that often.

Taking the safer route is not coming from a position of strength. It implies lack of certainty.

At least I can guarantee that no one will be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity for failing to believe in universalism.

True that.

 

[Strong in Him]

To all people, great joy. If not all will be saved, I'll be sad. Won't you?

We are told that there is no sadness or tears in heaven, Revelation 21:4. So I doubt I'll be sitting there feeling heartbroken about those who aren't there.
We'll have to see.
Like I said, it's not for us to judge anyone, so we might be surprised to see someone we didn't think would be there.

Or will you be too much in ecstacy about your own salvation?

I expect I'll be too overjoyed at seeing Jesus and too busy serving him to worry about anyone who deliberately and consistently didn't want that. No one's going to be sitting there gloating; there's no sin in heaven.

If so, then I take it your salvation must not be so sure to you yet, or you wouldn't be so ecstatic about it any more at that point in time I'd think.

I am certain now that I have met Jesus and am saved - that won't stop me rejoicing when I actually see him face to face.

I mean, I totally expect it (eternal life), I look forward to it, expect a lot of it, et cetera, but if I be in heaven without all my family members who happen to be not Christian then where's my great joy that is prophesied?

Scripture doesn't say anything about how we will feel if we don't see others in heaven. It will all be different anyway; Christians who have been married for years won't be married in heaven, so who knows? Maybe earthly ties and relationships will no longer be there.
That doesn't mean we can't feel overjoyed to finally meet the Lord whom we've been serving for years.

Sure there is. I have saved myself if that's how you put it

No, I have never said that we save ourselves.
I've said that we say "yes" to, and become part of, the salvation that God has already provided.

Do you not appreciate your faith (apart from that it saves)?

I appreciate very much that God has saved me and given his Son for me. I appreciate very much that he has been incredibly patient with me, not giving up and leaving me when I was unable to understand and believe.

Do you not want to please God, apart from doing what's necessary to get saved?

Of course.

He could have, but he felt guilty.

Do you mean that he would have felt guilty if he hadn't preached as he was told to?
Why do you think the Lord called him, or calls anyone, to preach and evangelise if he knows that he will save everyone after death anyway - that all will eventually come to know him?

Moreso than his guilt though he obeyed Jesus. It's what he was commanded to do.

See above.
Why command someone to do something if you know that it is going to happen anyway? And if you are the Lord, and you are the One who is going to make that thing happen; even less reason. Unless God wanted Paul to be persecuted, opposed, stoned etc.

Well, I believe we can judge

Not about salvation, we can't. We don't know the true picture, someone's true motives/responses etc; only God knows.
And we can't tell God whether or not someone is worthy of salvation, because no one is.

Well, moving on requires not to worry about it too much, I suppose.
Especially when it concerned loved ones for example. Move on. They'll be judged.
Stop throwing your pearls if they behave like pigs. You're wasting your time.

Preaching the Gospel at all would be a waste of time, if God is going to accept everyone anyway, or give a second chance after death.

And God is love. 1 John 4:8

Which is why he doesn't act that way.

Ha. Well, it isn't (the same). I'd argue it's much better. Feel good only.

So it's a false Gospel.

Live your life as you please now; steal, lie, cheat, get drunk and declare that you hate God. It's fine by him; he'll save you anyway. Your life of selfishness and crime will still get you into heaven.
The Good News is that no one can be good enough/do enough to earn God's love and acceptance. Left to ourselves, we are sinners and deserve death. But God sent his own Son to pay the price for our sin, and if we believe in him, not only are we forgiven and made right with God, we can have EVERY spiritual blessing - peace, joy, assurance, security etc. The Good News is that though we rebelled against God, he still wants us to have all these things.

Yes. And I am happy that I repented and believe because that makes the judgment a lot less confrontational I believe (though it probably still will be that and very humbling).

We won't be judged for our sins - not if we are in Christ and believe that he has already taken the punishment for them.
We have to give an account of ourselves; how we have used our talents, and so on. If our "work" is on any foundation other than Jesus, it will be destroyed.
If a person has rejected Jesus and the only "work" they have is themselves - what will they have when that is destroyed?

 

[Jord Simcha]

We are told that there is no sadness or tears in heaven, Revelation 21:4. So I doubt I'll be sitting there feeling heartbroken about those who aren't there.
We'll have to see.
Like I said, it's not for us to judge anyone, so we might be surprised to see someone we didn't think would be there.

Yes, I doubt it too. Them being there makes so much more sense.

But right after I die, when I'll go to heaven, I doubt I will see anybody that I have met in real life before. I believe true born again Christians are very rare.

We disagree on that we can judge. "You will know them by their fruit."

I expect I'll be too overjoyed at seeing Jesus and too busy serving him to worry about anyone who deliberately and consistently didn't want that. No one's going to be sitting there gloating; there's no sin in heaven.

Serving Him how? There's nobody to convert.

I am certain now that I have met Jesus and am saved - that won't stop me rejoicing when I actually see him face to face.

Okay. Good for you. I would stop rejoicing if He didn't save all and got like 80% of mankind in hell.
He could go take a hike then.

Scripture doesn't say anything about how we will feel if we don't see others in heaven. It will all be different anyway; Christians who have been married for years won't be married in heaven, so who knows? Maybe earthly ties and relationships will no longer be there.
That doesn't mean we can't feel overjoyed to finally meet the Lord whom we've been serving for years.

It might not be called marriage anymore, but I doubt that God does away with the man-woman love relationships altogether.

Definitely would be against my wishes also, and if I'm not mistaken God has given me the desires of my heart. If it'd be so that I'd have to be single for all eternity, that would also undermine my love for God and life greatly. So kind of goes against Luke 2:10's great joy, and that Jesus won't make ashamed/disappoint (I'd be ashamed of/disappointed in Him if He separated all couples)

Do you mean that he would have felt guilty if he hadn't preached as he was told to?

Nah, I meant because he was the chiefest of all sinners and that he didn't deserve the grace he was given, according to himself.

Why do you think the Lord called him, or calls anyone, to preach and evangelise if he knows that he will save everyone after death anyway - that all will eventually come to know him?

The sooner the better (repentance), I suppose.

See above.
Why command someone to do something if you know that it is going to happen anyway? And if you are the Lord, and you are the One who is going to make that thing happen; even less reason. Unless God wanted Paul to be persecuted, opposed, stoned etc.

Yeah I don't know. It pleased God to save them that believe by the foolishness of preaching.

I don't think God intended for Paul to be persecuted like that but it did glorify God that he was willing to go through all that for God.

Not about salvation, we can't. We don't know the true picture, someone's true motives/responses etc; only God knows.

It's not that hard for me to see if somebody is my spiritual brother or not.

And we can't tell God whether or not someone is worthy of salvation, because no one is.

But we can recognize the ones that are saved.

Preaching the Gospel at all would be a waste of time, if God is going to accept everyone anyway, or give a second chance after death.

No, because the Gospel is great and glorious.

Which is why he doesn't act that way.

Exactly. He doesn't say I'm the Saviour of the world while knowing He isn't. He is.

So it's a false Gospel.

No, the 80% of mankind goes to hell-gospel is not a gospel.

Live your life as you please now; steal, lie, cheat, get drunk and declare that you hate God. It's fine by him; he'll save you anyway. Your life of selfishness and crime will still get you into heaven.

That would be an interesting way of evangelizing.

It might really make people think.. haha.

The Good News is that no one can be good enough/do enough to earn God's love and acceptance. Left to ourselves, we are sinners and deserve death. But God sent his own Son to pay the price for our sin, and if we believe in him, not only are we forgiven and made right with God, we can have EVERY spiritual blessing - peace, joy, assurance, security etc. The Good News is that though we rebelled against God, he still wants us to have all these things.

Amen.

We won't be judged for our sins - not if we are in Christ and believe that he has already taken the punishment for them.
We have to give an account of ourselves; how we have used our talents, and so on. If our "work" is on any foundation other than Jesus, it will be destroyed.
If a person has rejected Jesus and the only "work" they have is themselves - what will they have when that is destroyed?

They will have nothing. Nothing, not even the rejection of Jesus will they uphold!!! Which is nice.

 

[Gup20]

That is an amazing list of Scripture.

I would like to ask a couple of questions of you.

1. The second death is the Lake of Fire. Is this the end of death & hades?

Yes... the end of Adam's death. You see, when Adam was judged, it wasn't JUST Adam who was judged. There was a universal, corporate judgment. Adam, all humans, all animals, all matter (the ground)... the very universe itself was cursed with death for Adam's sin (not even for Eve's sin). This judgement was just because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. However, once Jesus came into the world as a son of man, and lived a perfect, sinless life, and was declared by The Law of Moses to be sinless, that universal judgement was no longer just. Therefore, Adam's judgement of universal death has to be repealed. This necessitates a resurrection of all who died under that judgement. Once this is done, then all face the individual judgement. Some will have eternal life, and some will have eternal torment based on the individual and whether or not they had faith in Jesus Christ. Our faith doesn't save us from Adam's judgement... that will be repealed, so no one will need saving from it. Our faith saves us from Jesus' judgement - the second, individual judgement.

2. Is the Lake of Fire, hades or the other 3 words, words for hell?

I don't believe so, no. It says Adam's death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire... so one could argue that the Hells are combined into one at the end.

3. Who are those not "hurt", (the only ones), by the 2nd death?

Those with faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

4. Are all believers overcomers?

Jesus is the overcomer and those who are in Christ are overcomers through their union with Him.

 

[FineLinen]

Yes... the end of Adam's death. You see, when Adam was judged, it wasn't JUST Adam who was judged. There was a universal, corporate judgment. Adam, all humans, all animals, all matter (the ground)... the very universe itself was cursed with death for Adam's sin (not even for Eve's sin). This judgement was just because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. However, once Jesus came into the world as a son of man, and lived a perfect, sinless life, and was declared by The Law of Moses to be sinless, that universal judgement was no longer just. Therefore, Adam's judgement of universal death has to be repealed. This necessitates a resurrection of all who died under that judgement. Once this is done, then all face the individual judgement. Some will have eternal life, and some will have eternal torment based on the individual and whether or not they had faith in Jesus Christ. Our faith doesn't save us from Adam's judgement... that will be repealed, so no one will need saving from it. Our faith saves us from Jesus' judgement - the second, individual judgement.


I don't believe so, no. It says Adam's death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire... so one could argue that the Hells are combined into one at the end.


Those with faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Jesus is the overcomer and those who are in Christ are overcomers through their union with Him.

Jesus Christ is the Archegos and Prodromos and as Prince-Leader goes before His beloved ones into dimensions of conquest.

All believers are NOT overcomers. Many are mere babes still on milk, unable to walk & certainly not ready for their Gerbers.

The walk beyond the momentous justification by faith, is one of being made the righteousness of God in Him, culminating in final chapters of at-one-ment and following the Lamb in the withersover e.g. overcomer.

 

[Gup20]

These don't deal with your infinite holiness makes eternal hell just-theory though, just saying.

"For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made."
Isaiah 57:16

There is no more contention once the judge has levied the eternal sentence, it is finished.

How can both Daniel 12:2 and Isaiah 57:16 be true at the same time?
God can not have people in everlasting contempt if he doesn't contend forever.
I think that at least one of the verses is not meant to mean forever, but "of the ages" or "in the coming age".

The word "contempt" is a Greek word dera'own which means "aversion, or abhorrance." It means separation from God.

The word "contend" is a Hebrew word riyb which means "to strive or quarrel." In other words, there comes a time when it will all be settled, and some will be eternally with God and some will be eternally separated from God.

 

[FineLinen]

In other words, there comes a time when it will all be settled, and some will be eternally with God and some will be eternally separated from God.

Nope!

There is no such thing as aidios separation.

Again, (& again if necessary), Theos is the Beginning & the Ending of ALL!

Source, Guide, Goal of ta panta.