30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

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I've heard that theory before by preachers that I really respected at the time but I can not accept it as just to torture anybody forever, no matter how supposedly infinitely holy God is or how infinitely holy His law may be. If your theory holds true one could argue it is just for God to torture everybody forever for even disrespecting the tiniest insect. No thank you, you can have that God. I'll have my loving God, who wouldn't even torture Adolf Hitler if half the world begged Him to do it.
Instead of drawing your beliefs from the scriptures you are imposing your assumptions/presuppositions on the scriptures.
…..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis?” etc.
…..In the EOB, footnote pg. 180

“Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).”
= = = = = = = = = =
The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = = = =
KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Paul, the same writer, in the same writing book of Romans, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below. Showing conclusively that “aionios” means “eternal/everlsasting.”
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. Whoever has doubts/questions about the EOB version I suggest they read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation. If the other "literal" versions UR-ites favor have similar scholastic support I am not aware of it.


 
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fwGod

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Universalism is the belief that everyone ever born will be saved by the sacrifice of Christ and will spend eternity in heaven, regardless of whether or not they have placed their faith in Him.

Salvation is by faith, those who will be saved have to believe. To believe in God. To believe that God sent His Son Jesus for salvation of sinners.

And to those who believed, to them he gave the right to become the children of God, even those who believe on his name. (John 1:12)​

God is loving to all and as far as He is concerned He wants all to be saved. But there's no where in scripture that says that all will be.

Now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor.6:2)
There is none later when the sinner has rejected God's grace, rejected the sacrifice of Jesus on their behalf, died and been in hell, none later at the Great White Throne Judgement where sinners are judged according to the evil that they did while alive.

So they set a day to meet with Paul, and many people came to the place he was staying. He expounded to them from morning to evening, testifying about the kingdom of God and persuading them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and the Prophets. Some of them were convinced by what he said, but others refused to believe. They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement:The Holy Spirit was right when He spoke to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet:Go to this people and say,You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.'"(Acts 28:23-27)​

There is no verse of scripture to say that 'those who don't believe while they're alive, not to worry because God will eventually allow them into heaven.'

If all were to be put in heaven just because they exist, then there'd be no scriptures of sinners and wicked people being condemned to hell. There'd be no need for faith to be saved.

Psalm 69:13 But I pray to you, LORD, in the time of your favor; in your great love, O God, answer me with your sure salvation.

The person has to hear the gospel and request or believe in order for salvation to occur. It cannot happen if the person doesn't want to be saved. If that were the case, then what of all people who have believed and thereby gotten saved? Does their faith mean nothing?.. does their allegiance and obedience mean nothing?.. does their being born again, new creatures in Christ Jesus mean nothing? Does Jesus saying "You must be born again." mean nothing?

It would be for nothing if there are sinners who get into heaven just because God wants them to be there and not because they accept and believe for it.

God does not accept into heaven unchanged, sinful hateful people who don't like Christians or Jews, killing and martyring them. God cannot accept unchanged sinful people who don't believe and be saved and thereby become new creatures created after God in righteousness and holiness.

Only those who hear the gospel and accept salvation, and love God and His dear son Jesus can be in heaven.
But, if God did accept sinners into heaven.. then what of the scripture.. Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness (2 Cor. 6:14) ?

God will not ignore a sinners choice to reject Him and the salvation offered. God will not run roughshod over their choice and just put their sinful selves in heaven because He so loves them. They'd be there illegally because all that will be in heaven are those who's names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

If God went through the proceedings of the Great White Throne Judgement, then let sinners in heaven anyway, He'd make the sacrifice of Jesus and His shed blood of no value.
He'd be a thief in snatching them away from satan who has them by authority in darkness, and will not relinquish them on a theft or illegal basis.

Satan is described by Jesus as a thief and a liar and the truth is not in him. (John 8:44) God would become that if He made salvation for everyone without their agreeing to it or without their accepting it by faith.

That's worse than the devil because he needs the sinners co-operation (a legal process) in order to get into his/her life.

God is not going go that low, nor is He going to use the devil's tactics to get what He wants. There's no Love expressed in that, only selfishness and darkness.

That shows that universal salvation is a doctrine of men and not of God.
 
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Toro

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IF salvation were universal and given to all, not just offered to all, The New Testament would be somewhere around 6 words long.

"Jesus said unto them, "You're welcome""

There would be no need for warnings, prophecies, promises or any of tge wisdom found within. In fact there would be no need to delay a single moment for His return as all are forgiven and none would need to have obedience or disobedience attributed to them... for all would be saved, none would be lost and no need to postpone His return so that every ear that will hear, will follow His voice and be brought to salvation..... because all would be spared, regardless if they know His voice or not.
 
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Swan7

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The problem with verses alone is that it’s completely without context. If we went by only versed here and there then there would be no need for 66 books of God’s Word, and there would certainly be no need of His Wisdom to be imparted to us when we ask.

Just read with the Holy Spirit and He will teach you all Truth. :yellowheart:
 
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mlepfitjw

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I wasn't going to comment any more but I would like to say that it is important to know the, how, what, why, when, who, wheres in the bible to get a contextual bases, and not go off just what people have taught others over time.

Most of the time Jesus Christ was talking to his disciples directly to them in a time that was once a long time ago that is now over. We have these accounts to reassure us of the truth of Jesus Christ, his death, burial and being raised again by his Father.

Though you are still able to have the beliefs that are personal and dear to you and still are a believer in the same Lord Jesus Christ that died for all people in the world.

Everyone is different, and not everyone will ever come to be in the same category of fitting in with the group other than the rested assurance of the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ died, was buried, and had risen again by his Father on the third day.

You know in the bible it eventually talks about leaving the doctrine of Christ Jesus, and to move on, to move forward.

Hebrews 6
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

John 8:36 - May you find the freedom, and truth in the Lord Jesus Christ and what he was about. To Love God, and Love your neighbors no matter how different or off they may seem, even love your enemy.
 
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SaintCody777

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30+ Bible verses, that either in isolation or in combination with other verses support universal salvation for non-believers to ponder and believers to enjoy, use and add to (I will then add them to the OP):


1. Luke 2:10
Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

2. Luke 2:30-31
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

3. 1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

-in combination with Job 42:2 and Psalms 115:3 and Jeremiah 29:11 I find this forms a very compelling argument that universal salvation will be achieved-

(
4.) I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
(
5.) But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
(
6.) For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
(For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.-NIT)

7. 1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

8. Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

9. Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

10. Isaiah 40:5
And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.


11. John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

12. Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

13. Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

14. Colossians 1:19-20
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

15. 1 Timothy 2:5-6
the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time

16. Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all

17. 1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

18. Romans 8:21
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

19. 1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

20. John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

21. John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


22. John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

23. John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

24. 1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

25. John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


26. 2 Timothy 1:10
our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

27. Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

28. 2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

29. Ezekiel 36:25-27
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

30. Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

31. Romans 5:5
hope does not disappoint

32. Romans 10:9
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

33. Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,

34. Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

35. 1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

36. Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed. :)
Most of these Bible verses deal with God's will and what he would like, not what He is going to do. God still holds a grudge against those who willfully rebel against him (Psalms 5:5).
How does universalism explain just 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, John 3:18, and Rev. 20:15? What do these mean to a universalist?
 
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SaintCody777

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Oh come on now. Which scripture verse that you provided in your OP says that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming receive everlasting life? - Not one. Yet there is over 100+ scriptures that show that the unrepentant wicked are destroyed in the second death in the lake of fire after the second coming

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE SECOND COMING?
(WHAT UNIVERSALISM WILL NOT TEACH YOU).

…………….

What meaning can be attached to the words "burned up" if not utter consumption or destruction? It is almost unbelievable that men can read these statements, that He (God) will make an utter end and they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry," and clear finite usage of terms like 'destruction', 'death', 'destroy', 'cut off', 'burn up' and 'be no more' and still believe in a literal, endless hell or the wicked will still be living being prepared for everlasting life (Universalism). The above is an ongoing and unfinished work some of which has been picked up from other places and added to which is simply all God's Word not mine.

May God bless you all as you seek him through His Word
If the wicked just perish and cease to exist, then why would Jesus say in Matthew 5:29 and Mark 9:48 that it's better to live the rest of your life maimed, then live the rest of your life with all your health intact and being thrown in hell? What about Matthew 25:46? 2 Thessalonians 1:9 describes eternal ongoing punishment, not that they'll be destroyed and cease to exist forever. And Revelation 22:15 says that the wicked still exist but do not partake in the new Earth.
That would be just limited pain and suffering, but at least you know that when you are utterly gone, body and soul, but so would your suffering and your ability to feel any more regret or pain.
Isaiah 66:24 describes the utter fate of those who remain in rebellion against God. Can you imagine being tormented with your conscience day and night without stop for a million years, or a decillion, never mind eternity (Revelation 14:10-11)?
Eternal torment scares me a heck of a lot more than eventually becoming extinct body and soul.
 
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Jord Simcha

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Dan 12:2 NASB 2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace [and] everlasting contempt.

Rev 14:11 NASB 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Rev 20:10-15 NASB 10 [those who fought against the saints] And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one [of them] according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.​
These don't deal with your infinite holiness makes eternal hell just-theory though, just saying.

"For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made."
Isaiah 57:16

How can both Daniel 12:2 and Isaiah 57:16 be true at the same time?
God can not have people in everlasting contempt if he doesn't contend forever.
I think that at least one of the verses is not meant to mean forever, but "of the ages" or "in the coming age".

On Rev 14:11 I would say that God could make the smoke of a cigarette go up forever even though it's finite. I have doubt that it will be forever and ever though, just like I have with the use of everlasting in Daniel 12:2. The same applies to Rev 20:10.

I already said before in this thread (I'm not sure whether it was in a post to you) that my interpretation of what the second death is differs from most, because I see it in the light of universal reconciliation.
 
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Jord Simcha

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Instead of drawing your beliefs from the scriptures you are imposing your assumptions/presuppositions on the scriptures.
These presuppositions come straight from scripture though.

And you do the same. You read this thread with your hell-goggles on after all.
 
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Jord Simcha

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Universalism is the belief that everyone ever born will be saved by the sacrifice of Christ and will spend eternity in heaven, regardless of whether or not they have placed their faith in Him.

Misrepresentation of universalism. We believe all will put their faith in Him, even though for most that will be after death.

The person has to hear the gospel and request or believe in order for salvation to occur. It cannot happen if the person doesn't want to be saved. If that were the case, then what of all people who have believed and thereby gotten saved? Does their faith mean nothing?.. does their allegiance and obedience mean nothing?.. does their being born again, new creatures in Christ Jesus mean nothing? Does Jesus saying "You must be born again." mean nothing?
The bolded part made me think of the parabel of the workers where everybody got 1 penny for their work, whether it be for a whole day's work or for just one hour.

God does not accept into heaven unchanged, sinful hateful people who don't like Christians or Jews, killing and martyring them. God cannot accept unchanged sinful people who don't believe and be saved and thereby become new creatures created after God in righteousness and holiness.
Even people who killed Christians will become new, after they are destroyed.
 
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Jord Simcha

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The problem with verses alone is that it’s completely without context. If we went by only versed here and there then there would be no need for 66 books of God’s Word, and there would certainly be no need of His Wisdom to be imparted to us when we ask.

Just read with the Holy Spirit and He will teach you all Truth. :yellowheart:
I did. I have asked God for the Holy Spirit. Have you?
 
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FineLinen

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Universalism is the belief that everyone ever born will be saved by the sacrifice of Christ and will spend eternity in heaven, regardless of whether or not they have placed their faith in Him.

Salvation is by faith, those who will be saved have to believe. To believe in God. To believe that God sent His Son Jesus for salvation of sinners.

And to those who believed, to them he gave the right to become the children of God, even those who believe on his name. (John 1:12)​

God is loving to all and as far as He is concerned He wants all to be saved. But there's no where in scripture that says that all will be.

Now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor.6:2)
There is none later when the sinner has rejected God's grace, rejected the sacrifice of Jesus on their behalf, died and been in hell...

The Restitution of the all is the time when the Father most glorious sets everything right.

The setting of everything right includes lost & broken sinners who are transformed by His might, in His time, in His way, by the power of His love and reconciliation of at-one-ment.

The vast, vast majority have never seen Him, or heard His voice say...

Come unto Me, I will give unto you.
 
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Jord Simcha

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Most of these Bible verses deal with God's will and what he would like, not what He is going to do.
His will is what He is going to do. That also is mentioned in the verses.

God still holds a grudge against those who willfully rebel against him (Psalms 5:5).
True, but not enough to torture them forever.

How does universalism explain just 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, John 3:18, and Rev. 20:15? What do these mean to a universalist?
I think verse 9 means that just the sheer presence of Christ will destroy His enemies.

John 3:18: the unbeliever, already condemned, was me too, at some point, until I was 35 actually.
You can transfer from condemned to believer.

Rev 20:15: Two options: either everybody is in the Book of life, or the Second Death is not the end.
I think the latter personally.
 
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FineLinen

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John 3:18: the unbeliever, already condemned, was me too, at some point, until I was 35 actually.
You can transfer from condemned to believer.

Rev 20:15: Two options: either everybody is in the Book of life, or the Second Death is not the end.
I think the latter personally.

Dear Jord: the journey into Him started for me at the ripe age of 15, sixty three years ago.

What a wonderful journey it has been, filled with great joy and great distress, as He has proved over and over again, He is the faithful One, capable of accomplishing what He sets out to do in His Reach for us.

A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies.
 
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FineLinen

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Dear Jord: the journey into Him started for me at the ripe age of 15, sixty three years ago.

What a wonderful journey it has been, filled with great joy and great distress, as He has proved over and over again, He is the faithful One, capable of accomplishing what He sets out to do in His Reach for us.

A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies.

Fatherhood =

The Scars Of Life

Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house. In a hurry to dive into the cool water he ran out the back door leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went. He flew into the water not realizing that as he swam toward the middle of the lake that an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

His father was working in the yard and saw the two as they got closer and closer together. In utter fear he ran toward the water, yelling to his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father.

But it was too late.

Just as the little boy reached his father, the alligator reached him.

From the dock the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father, but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened to drive by and heard his screams. Grabbing a rifle the farmer raced from his truck, took aim, and shot the alligator.

Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred by the vicious attack of the animal. And on his arms were deep scratches where his father's fingernails had dug into the boy's flesh in his effort to hang on to the son he loved.

A newspaper reporter interviewing the boy after the trauma asked if he would show him the scars on his legs. The boy lifted his pant legs.

And then with obvious pride, the boy said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have great scars on my arms, too! I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go."
 
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fwGod

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Misrepresentation of universalism. We believe all will put their faith in Him, even though for most that will be after death.
A misrepresentation hardly matters. From what you said right there it's obvious that you are not saying anything according to the Bible.

Now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. (1 Cor.6:2) When a person dies in rejection of Jesus, that is eternal. No possibility of faith, no second chances after death.


But, if you truly believe that universalism is right, then why did you get saved before dying? It could not have been from a universalist preacher that you got saved. There are no two roads to salvation. Only one. There is a narrow gate. The other is wide. They are not the same. The narrow gate leads to eternity with God. The wide gate leads to destruction.

Why don't you destroy a branch in the fire burnt to a crisp from center to circumference then see if it being planted into the ground can again produce fruit. It's impossible. Your universalism is impossible.

Why do you allow that others can get to heaven another way? Making 'now' of no value? It diminishes your salvation and every other person who has gotten saved before they die. It diminishes the purpose of the cross where Jesus was crucified. It twists the true message of the gospel.

There is only one way to heaven and that only way is now. But if they reject then after death their fate is sealed. They will at the GWTJ be judged for their evil deeds while they were alive. They will not be offered salvation. They will not be able to have faith.

The scriptures are against what you claim, they say, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. (1 Cor.6:2) Today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. (Heb.3:15).


There is no such promise to those who die rejecting God's redemption. They are lawless, of such Jesus says 'depart from Me, I never knew you." (Mat.7:23)
In contrast, those who believe in Him (while alive) they are given the right to become the Children of God. (John 1:12) When? Now before dying. To those alive now, to those who come to Jesus now to be saved, "He (Jesus) will in no wise cast out." (John 6:37).

The bolded part made me think of the parabel of the workers where everybody got 1 penny for their work, whether it be for a whole day's work or for just one hour.
Whosoever you heard it taught has twisted the meaning to serve their own distorted gospel message.

What you barely refer to is a parable that speaks of salvation received while alive, not after death. In the natural world, when you work while alive you don't get paid after you die.

Everyone who comes to Jesus now when salvation is offered shall be saved. Those who don't, won't. The rich man in torment didn't get salvation out of hell, he is there forever. If there was any promise of salvation coming to him then Abraham would have said so. But he didn't.

That's why the rich man wanted someone to go and tell his brothers so they will not be in torment forever.

Even people who killed Christians will become new, after they are destroyed.
I can't even figure out what scripture, if any, has been distorted by that statement.

You are misrepresenting the true gospel because nowhere does the Bible say that there is redemption after death for the sinner.
 
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CaspianSails

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My reply is succinct and to the point. Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ and Revelation 20:10-15. It is quite evident that not only are some not recipients of salvation, some who thought they were are not. You can claim these to be what was it, destruction verses. Christ clearly taught some He would know and some He would not and that their fate is different. It is the sum of all scripture that reveals truth not selective positive verses.
 
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Strong in Him

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Coming to the Master of reconciliation requires His draw and repentance that is "granted".

When He says come we come!

The rich young ruler didn't. Some of Jesus' disciples started to follow then turned away, John 6:66.
Jesus even warned about such things; "no one who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is fit for service in the Kingdom of God", Luke 9:62.
He also said that no one starts something without making sure that they are able to finish the task, Luke 14:28-33.

Jesus always gave the invitation, "come". He didn't force people and he didn't tell any who turned away "never mind, you'll be saved one day."
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If the wicked just perish and cease to exist, then why would Jesus say in Matthew 5:29 and Mark 9:48 that it's better to live the rest of your life maimed, then live the rest of your life with all your health intact and being thrown in hell? What about Matthew 25:46? 2 Thessalonians 1:9 describes eternal ongoing punishment, not that they'll be destroyed and cease to exist forever. And Revelation 22:15 says that the wicked still exist but do not partake in the new Earth. That would be just limited pain and suffering, but at least you know that when you are utterly gone, body and soul, but so would your suffering and your ability to feel any more regret or pain. Isaiah 66:24 describes the utter fate of those who remain in rebellion against God. Can you imagine being tormented with your conscience day and night without stop for a million years, or a decillion, never mind eternity (Revelation 14:10-11)? Eternal torment scares me a heck of a lot more than eventually becoming extinct body and soul.

HELL (γέεννα, geenna). The Greek word is often translated in English versions of the New Testament as “hell.” It is a noun derived from the Hebrew phrase גיא הנום (gy' hnwm), which means “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom was a ravine along the southern slope of Jerusalem (Josh 15:18; 18:16). In Old Testament times, it was a place used for offering sacrifices to foreign gods. Eventually, the site was used to burn refuse. When the Jews discussed punishment in the afterlife, they employed the image of this smoldering waste dump. (LBD).

The thought behind Matthew 5:29-30 is in reference to a place of punishment. For the unrepentant wicked this is the second death in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:7-8.

In regards to Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 the punishment here is the lake of fire which is also described as the second death (Revelation 21:7-8). It is the punishment of fire that brings the second death and it's results are eternal in that once your dead your dead forever and that is the punishment. The choices for mankind is eternal life or eternal death because those who choose death reject the gift of God's dear son and choose death over life as the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23. There is no such thing as eternal conscious punishment in hell fire which is a false teaching handed down to protestantism by the Roman Catholic Church.

As to Revelation 22:15 it is the closing remarks of the book of Revelation after everything has already been said with context beginning at Revelation 22:10 which says...

Revelation 22:11-15
[10], And he said to me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
[11], He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[12], And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13], I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14], Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15], For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie.

As shown above with the context these are closing remarks to the whole book of Revelation with JESUS closing by saying before he comes "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." This is prior to the second coming then Jesus promounces the blessing on those who do His commandments v14 who receive eternal life and enter in through the gates into the city (new Jerusalem). These partake of the first resurrection to eternal life. Those without are the unrepentant wicked who receive their reward of the second death in the lake of fire. There is a time gap between the two resurrections (see Revelation 20:1-15).

Isaiah 66:21-24 says
[21], And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, said the LORD.
[22], For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD.
[24], And they shall go forth, and look on the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring to all flesh.

Carcasses here are the dead bodies of those who are destroyed. The reference here in Isaiah is to those that are subject to the unquenchable fire, that is a fire that cannot be put out these are not living persons but dead bodies.

Finally to Revelation 14:11 [11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Some parrallel this scripture to the reference of Edom in Isaiah 34:10

The Greek word translated in English for "forever" is αἰών aion and simply means "an age" or cycle of time and it does not always mean age without end.

Strong’s Concordance
aiṓn properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)

Abbot Smith Lexicon
αἰών A space of time, as, a lifetime, generation, period of history, an indefinitely long period; in NT of an indefintely long period, an age, eternity… …the ages or world-periods which when summed up make eternity

HELPS Words studies;
aiṓn (see also the cognate adjective, 166 /aiṓnios, “age-long”) – properly, an age (era, “time-span”), characterized by a specific quality (type of existence).

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon:
Aion: age
(Latinaevum, which is αἰών with the Aeolic digamma), a human lifetime (in Homer, Herodotus, Pindar, Tragic poets), life itself (Homer Iliad 5, 685 με καί λίποι αἰών etc.).

Young's Literal Translation
and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

Now let's add the context back in...

Revelation 14:6-12
[6], And I saw another angel fly in the middle of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Note: the first angels message is the everlasting Gospel saying "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters"

[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

The fall of Babylon is proclaimed by the second angels message.

[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Note now Revelation 14:9-12 is the context of v11 which is the third angels message which follow the everlasting gospel and a call back to worshipping God, the fall of Babylon (apostate Christianity) and now a warning to those who worship the beast and receive his mark in the forehead or hand (believing or doing) those who receive the beasts mark will drink (future context) the wine wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. The context is important here as it is in reference to the proclaimation of the three angels messages and closes with a warning to those who receive the mark of the beast.

Third Angel's Message: The third angel gives a fearful warning to those who “worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark.” Those who drink the wine of Babylon’s impure doctrines will “drink the wine of the wrath of God.” This will be fulfilled both in the seven last plagues (Revelation 16:1-2) and the second death in the lake of fire * Revelation 20:15; Revelation 21:8

In Revelation 14:11 there is two fulfillments here one to the seven last plagues where those who receive the mark of the beast receive no rest day and night and before the second coming in the seven last plagues. This is evidence as the term "who worship the beast" is present tense to worshipping the beast and the second death that all the unrepentant wicked receive in the lake of fire after the second resurrection (Revelation 21:8)

Hope this helps.
 
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Jord Simcha

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A misrepresentation hardly matters. From what you said right there it's obvious that you are not saying anything according to the Bible.
Sure it matters. A lot. Looking forward to your exegesis of the 36 verses in the OP, which are straight from the Bible.

Now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. (1 Cor.6:2) When a person dies in rejection of Jesus, that is eternal. No possibility of faith, no second chances after death.
What verse is that, that there is no second chance after death?

But, if you truly believe that universalism is right, then why did you get saved before dying?
Interesting that you think that I am saved. If I'm preaching heresy according to you, how can I be saved?

Anyway, I didn't know about universal salvation at the time I got saved.

It could not have been from a universalist preacher that you got saved.
Sure it could be. A universalist can still urge people to get saved. I do (when given the chance).

There are no two roads to salvation. Only one. There is a narrow gate. The other is wide. They are not the same. The narrow gate leads to eternity with God. The wide gate leads to destruction.


Why don't you destroy a branch in the fire burnt to a crisp from center to circumference then see if it being planted into the ground can again produce fruit. It's impossible. Your universalism is impossible.
I can't do that. But with God nothing is impossible. (straight from the Bible)

Why do you allow that others can get to heaven another way?
Me? Or is your question addressed at God?

Again, makes me think of that parable of 1 penny per worker and jealousy occurring.

Making 'now' of no value? It diminishes your salvation and every other person who has gotten saved before they die. It diminishes the purpose of the cross where Jesus was crucified. It twists the true message of the gospel.
Doesn't diminish anything, in my opinion. Not my salvation, not the present. Not the prupose of the cross. On the contrary, it increases the purpose of the cross because it makes it inclusive. It is the true message of the Gospel.

There is only one way to heaven and that only way is now. But if they reject then after death their fate is sealed. They will at the GWTJ be judged for their evil deeds while they were alive. They will not be offered salvation. They will not be able to have faith.
This is all assumptions as far as I'm concerned.

If all believers are in the holy city and all the condemned are either in eternal hell or eternally annihilated who is the bride and the Spirit calling in Revelation 22:17? Please tell me that.


The scriptures are against what you claim, they say, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. (1 Cor.6:2) Today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. (Heb.3:15).

There is no such promise to those who die rejecting God's redemption. They are lawless, of such Jesus says 'depart from Me, I never knew you." (Mat.7:23)

I see many of the verses in the OP straight up promises.
In contrast, those who believe in Him (while alive) they are given the right to become the Children of God. (John 1:12)
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Romans 8:21

Any exceptions? I don't see God making one in this verse.

When? Now before dying. To those alive now, to those who come to Jesus now to be saved, "He (Jesus) will in no wise cast out." (John 6:37).
Oh... does this verse expire then? Or is His Word forever? Because I believe the latter.

Meaning, if one come to him at the judgment or in the middle of the lake of fire, that it's still valid.

Whosoever you heard it taught has twisted the meaning to serve their own distorted gospel message.

What you barely refer to is a parable that speaks of salvation received while alive, not after death. In the natural world, when you work while alive you don't get paid after you die.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant.

I was merely referring to the nature of the reaction of them that allegedly have worked harder and are opposed to other people being given just as generously as them. The notion that salvation for the wicked after death devalues my own salvation or the here and now, is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.

Everyone who comes to Jesus now when salvation is offered shall be saved. Those who don't, won't. The rich man in torment didn't get salvation out of hell, he is there forever. If there was any promise of salvation coming to him then Abraham would have said so. But he didn't.

That's why the rich man wanted someone to go and tell his brothers so they will not be in torment forever.
I can't even figure out what scripture, if any, has been distorted by that statement.

Where does Jesus say only now?

That wasn't the subject of the rich man and Abraham's conversation. It was about his brothers, not him.
You're inferring that that means he doesn't get a second chance.

You are misrepresenting the true gospel because nowhere does the Bible say that there is redemption after death for the sinner.
Is it even Gospel, according to you, the OP?
 
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