St. Junipero Serra statue torn down in San Francisco Park

[Michie]

CNA Staff, Jun 20, 2020 / 09:41 am MT (CNA).- A statue of Catholic missionary St. Junipero Serra was toppled in a San Francisco park Friday, along with statues of Francis Scott Key and Ulysses S. Grant.

The statues were torn down Friday evening from Golden Gate Park, by a group of about 100 people.

Continued below.
St. Junipero Serra statue torn down in San Francisco Park

 

[anna ~ grace]

Pray. This is getting nuts.

 

[bekkilyn]

I was fine with confederate statues being moved to museums, but this is really getting ridiculous!

 

[Archivist]

Key and Grant were slave owners, but that is no reason to remove their statues. I wonder if they will try to force the professional baseball team named after Key to change its name?

 

[JIMINZ]

CNA Staff, Jun 20, 2020 / 09:41 am MT (CNA).- A statue of Catholic missionary St. Junipero Serra was toppled in a San Francisco park Friday, along with statues of Francis Scott Key and Ulysses S. Grant.

The statues were torn down Friday evening from Golden Gate Park, by a group of about 100 people.

Continued below.
St. Junipero Serra statue torn down in San Francisco Park

Those who forget History (In this case remove it) are destined to relive it.

 

[Archivist]

Those who forget History (In this case remove it) are destined to relive it.

I don’t have a problem with legally removing statues of Confederate leaders that are not where they are buried or on battlefields where they fought. They were traitors. However removing statues of people just because they owned slaves—a common practice of the time—is wrong.

 

[JIMINZ]

I don’t have a problem with legally removing statues of Confederate leaders that are not where they are buried or on battlefields where they fought. They were traitors. However removing statues of people just because they owned slaves—a common practice of the time—is wrong.

I totally disagree with you.

Here is a question, only in order to put things into a proper perspective.

Should we change our American Flag to something else because, it is an open affront and a constant reminder of atrocity's committed against the Indigenous Peoples of the United States, where there are still Reservations where the representation of that Country flies every day

 

[Archivist]

I totally disagree with you.

Here is a question, only in order to put things into a proper perspective.

Should we change our American Flag to something else because, it is an open affront and a constant reminder of atrocity's committed against the Indigenous Peoples of the United States, where there are still Reservations where the representation of that Country flies every day

You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

The various Confederate generals had taken an oath to uphold, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. They violated that oath. They were traitors. Further, the statues of them In various cities were not put up until well after the Civil War, some as late as the 1960s. Some of them stand in places the generals never even visited. In many cases they were put up by racist organizations specifically to intimidate local blacks.

As I said earlier, I don’t have a problem with statues of them in battlefields where they fought. Those statues help illustrate what occurred during the battle. Lee’s statue at Gettysburg stands were he rode out to tell his men “it’s all my fault” after Pickett’s charge failed.

Perhaps you are not aware, the current US flag was adopted in 1960. It is not the flag under which those atrocities were committed against Native Americans.

 

[JIMINZ]

You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

The various Confederate generals had taken an oath to uphold, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. They violated that oath. They were traitors. Further, the statues of them In various cities were not put up until well after the Civil War, some as late as the 1960s. Some of them stand in places the generals never even visited. In many cases they were put up by racist organizations specifically to intimidate local blacks.

As I said earlier, I don’t have a problem with statues of them in battlefields where they fought. Those statues help illustrate what occurred during the battle. Lee’s statue at Gettysburg stands were he rode out to tell his men “it’s all my fault” after Pickett’s charge failed.

Perhaps you are not aware, the current US flag was adopted in 1960. It is not the flag under which those atrocities were committed against Native Americans.

Lets not split hairs.

An american Flag by any other stripe would still be an American Flag, which represents the County which committed such atrocities, that is exactly the same point with the BLM movement.

It doesn't matter who or when, it that things were done, period.

 

[Archivist]

Lets not split hairs.

An american Flag by any other stripe would still be an American Flag, which represents the County which committed such atrocities, that is exactly the same point with the BLM movement.

It doesn't matter who or when, it that things were done, period.

First of all it isn’t splitting hairs. It isn’t the same flag. You can say what you want, you would be wrong.

Second, yes it makes a difference. If a statue was put up by a racist group specifically to intimidate local blacks, it should come down in a legal manner.

 

[Radagast]

Pray. This is getting nuts.

The "movement" is anti-Christian as well as being anti-white and anti-USA.

Statues of saints, Union soldiers (even black ones), and anti-slavery abolitionists are all being knocked down.

That shows quite clearly that the "movement" is not about slavery or about "black lives."

 

[JIMINZ]

First of all it isn’t splitting hairs. It isn’t the same flag. You can say what you want, you would be wrong.

Second, yes it makes a difference. If a statue was put up by a racist group specifically to intimidate local blacks, it should come down in a legal manner.

Sounds like you actually saying that the American Indians do not have a legitimate grievance against the American Flag and what it stands for to them because it isn't the same Flag that was used in the days they were being killed and placed on Reservations.

I'm sure the American Indians would love to hear you logic.

 

[Archivist]

Sounds like you actually saying that the American Indians do not have a legitimate grievance against the American Flag and what it stands for to them because it isn't the same Flag that was used in the days they were being killed and placed on Reservations.

I'm sure the American Indians would love to hear you logic.

I simply made a statement of fact—it isn’t the same flag.

My grandmother was half Shawnee. My grandfather was a doughboy in the Big One. He took a machine gin bullet to the leg and was gassed during the Meuse-Argonne Offensive. The American flag flew at their house every patriotic holiday. After my grandfather died my grandmother put it up—no hatred of the American flag there. BTW, I presume that you are aware that Native Americans have served in the US military at a higher rate per capita than any other ethnic group.

 

[Broken Fence]

The "movement" is anti-Christian as well as being anti-white and anti-USA.

Statues of saints, Union soldiers (even black ones), and anti-slavery abolitionists are all being knocked down.

That shows quite clearly that the "movement" is not about slavery or about "black lives."

Well said, I totally agree this is a break down of America. And the 1% are behind this uprising. This will end with Christians on the chopping block. So just watch and see.

 

[Michie]

After Toppling of St. Junipero Serra Statue, Archbishop Says Protests Being Hijacked

 

[Radagast]

After Toppling of St. Junipero Serra Statue, Archbishop Says Protests Being Hijacked

"'What is happening to our society? A renewed national movement to heal memories and correct the injustices of racism and police brutality in our country has been hijacked by some into a movement of violence, looting and vandalism,' Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone said in a statement June 20."

Just means that's naive. The movement wasn't "hijacked." It began, on the very first day, with "violence, looting and vandalism."

 

[Lukaris]

I wonder if these vandals lived in Russia would they be erasing any representation of the old, Soviet hammer & sickle? Even though that symbol represented a system that murdered millions, it was also the flag of the Red Army in World War 2. Millions of Soviet soldiers died in the name of their flag fighting the Nazis. It is their heritage for better or worse but barbarism thinks otherwise. As much as the flag of Communist China represents an actual, current, murderous regime it is their flag. Perhaps the current barbarism embraces actual, anti American barbarism of communism because maybe it is in sympathy with it.

 

[Michie]

San Francisco archbishop, Spanish embassy criticize toppling of Junipero Serra statue

 

[JIMINZ]

I simply made a statement of fact—it isn’t the same flag.

My grandmother was half Shawnee. My grandfather was a doughboy in the Big One. He took a machine gin bullet to the leg and was gassed during the Meuse-Argonne Offensive. The American flag flew at their house every patriotic holiday. After my grandfather died my grandmother put it up—no hatred of the American flag there. BTW, I presume that you are aware that Native Americans have served in the US military at a higher rate per capita than any other ethnic group.

I like your logic, we have 50 stars in the Flag today, but back when the atrocities against the American Indian were being perpetrated, it only had 37 and 38 in the 1870s, therefore it isn't the same flag......Cool!

Then any argument against Civil War Statues is Moot.

 

[Archivist]

I like your logic, we have 50 stars in the Flag today, but back when the atrocities against the American Indian were being perpetrated, it only had 37 and 38 in the 1870s, therefore it isn't the same flag......Cool!

Except I didn't say that it isn't the same flag because it now has 50 stars, did I? Perhaps you should try what is written. The current flag wasn't adopted until 1960, so it wouldn't have been official before then.

Using your reasoning, we would be responsible for any atroThe cities committed against Native Americans by any predecessor nations whose land we now control by either purchase or conquest. That would make the US responsible for anything done by Sweden, the Netherlands, Russia, France, Spain, Mexico and the United Kingdom. I don't think so.

You also ignored my statement that Native Americans have served in the US military to a higher ratio per capita than any other ethnic group. The vast majority of them don't see the US flag as being oppressive. As I said before, my grandmother, who was half Shoshone, was proud to fly the US flag.

Then any argument against Civil War Statues is Moot.

No, Civil War statues of Confederate leaders honor men who were traitors, who violated oaths that they had taken to preserve, uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. Many of them were put up by racist organizations, some specifically to intimidate blacks. Such statues only belong on battlefields, where they help explain what happened, or at burial sites.