The failure of LBJ's Great Society

[Kentonio]

I don't know where you're getting prosperity gospel from me. I absolutely reject the prosperity gospel and the notion that God blesses his people with great riches. That is quite contrary to what we have seen over 2000 years or perhaps better put it is absurd that God skipped over 1900 years of Christians, failing to bless them financially.

Sorry, I tend to use it as a catch all phrase for Christians who care about money more than helping people.

 

[Belk]

Over the course of human history, absolutely they are. Just 100 years ago cars were rare, phones did not exist in homes, refrigeration was limited to an ice box with literal ice in it, heat was generated by fire and indoor plumbing was only starting to become a middle class phenomenon. 200 years ago basically none of the things we have today existed. Most humans in history could only dream of the things the people we call poor today have.

So let me paraphrase my understanding of your argument given your response.

Poverty is not bad in the US because people do not live in the squalor they would have 200 years ago. Does that sum up your position?

 

[Redwingfan9]

So let me paraphrase my understanding of your argument given your response.

Poverty is not bad in the US because people do not live in the squalor they would have 200 years ago. Does that sum up your position?

Bingo. It goes beyond that though. The poor in America are only poor in comparison to those around them who have more. They're kept that way, at least in part, by government action.

 

[istodolez]

.....

 

[istodolez]

Bingo. It goes beyond that though. The poor in America are only poor in comparison to those around them who have more. They're kept that way, at least in part, by government action.

I would very much like you to refund all the taxes I paid that went to cover ROADS OR INFRASTRUTURE in your area. Thanks! I mean I wouldn't want to disincentivize you from building your own roads, electrical grid, water treatment systems, etc.

I'd also like all the property tax money I paid that might go to your school district (let us assume we live in the same town). I don't have kids so I wouldn't want to disincentivize YOU to take care of your OWN kids.

I really want to HELP you by eliminating EVERY SINGLE THING YOU GET from your fellow Americans. We can't have you disincentivized to do the hard work you need to do to get the things you have.

 

[Redwingfan9]

I would very much like you to refund all the taxes I paid that went to cover ROADS OR INFRASTRUTURE in your area. Thanks! I mean I wouldn't want to disincentivize you from building your own roads, electrical grid, water treatment systems, etc.

I'd also like all the property tax money I paid that might go to your school district (let us assume we live in the same town). I don't have kids so I wouldn't want to disincentivize YOU to take care of your OWN kids.

I really want to HELP you by eliminating EVERY SINGLE THING YOU GET from your fellow Americans. We can't have you disincentivized to do the hard work you need to do to get the things you have.

I don't send my children to government schools, I want a refund as well. As for roads, I would love to see them be privatized. Everything you cite should be in private hands with the exception of enforcement of basic Christian law, which God gives to the state, and national defense against foreign invasion.

 

[Belk]

Bingo. It goes beyond that though. The poor in America are only poor in comparison to those around them who have more.

I do not agree with your idea that absolute squalor should be the metric.

They're kept that way, at least in part, by government action.

According to whom?

 

[Speedwell]

I don't send my children to government schools, I want a refund as well. As for roads, I would love to see them be privatized. Everything you cite should be in private hands with the exception of enforcement of basic Christian law, which God gives to the state, and national defense against foreign invasion.

Why Christian law?

 

[Redwingfan9]

I do not agree with your idea that absolute squalor should be the metric.




According to whom?

According to very clear statistics. Black poverty hasn't dropped since the Great Society took hold. Black crime has increased dramatically. The same can be said among whites who spend generations on welfare. Do gooder government can never successfully replace fathers, cash isn't enough. Not even the legions of social workere we waste money on can replace fathers.

 

[istodolez]

I don't send my children to government schools, I want a refund as well.

Good for you!

As for roads, I would love to see them be privatized.

You SAY that but you don't really want it because you don't really know what that will entail. Imagine, if you will, a future where EVERY highway is a toll road run by a different independent system. Just IMAGINE how much more time you'll spend fishing out quarters to throw into "Bob's Highway 5".

LOL. Seriously...have you ever driven around a metropolitan area where toll roads are more common? It ain't fun. And even if you "coordinate" them all to use the same payment system you'd still end up paying MORE for driving around than you currently do.

Everything you cite should be in private hands

The reason I cited them (knowing full well you would say you were "OK" with privatizing all of them) is because you have no clue what that would look like or how it would function. You (and I) have NEVER lived in that sort of world. In fact certainly no DEVELOPED FIRST WORLD NATION has ever utilized that type of system. In those Libertarian enclaves where it has been tried it usually fails (see Honduras' San Pedro Sela).

It's easy to leaf through the tired, petty overwrought self-indulgent prose of Ayn Rand and think that but for the sheeple around them, the junior high boy who sees his own brilliance as a light shining forth in the dark and if only he, a Neo-John Galt, could remake society and be rid of lesser beings, all things would be great!

with the exception of enforcement of basic Christian law, which God gives to the state, and national defense against foreign invasion.

"Basic Christian Law"??? A theocracy? And you think that would be less intrusive? You REALLY REALLY need to read the Old Testament, my friend. It outlines exactly what a Judeo-Christian Theocracy would require of you. Say goodby to "voluntary" charity...it will now be MANDATED to care for the poor. To leave a certain portion of your fields unharvested. (And that's just one example!)

Yikes! Sounds like you didn't really think it through all the way.

 

[Belk]

According to very clear statistics. Black poverty hasn't dropped since the Great Society took hold. Black crime has increased dramatically. The same can be said among whites who spend generations on welfare. Do gooder government can never successfully replace fathers, cash isn't enough. Not even the legions of social workere we waste money on can replace fathers.

So according to you? What is your expertise that I should find your claims convincing?

 

[istodolez]

According to very clear statistics. Black poverty hasn't dropped since the Great Society took hold.

The data seems to disagree with you:

(Granted it is not enough, but you get the point...)

 

[cow451]

Pretending that white people aren't permitted to discuss problems in this country, regardless of race, is how we get to the place we're in today.

Didn't say you couldn't do it... just that it can be hilarious. Big difference.

 

[cow451]

And even Shriners now takes insurance, though the families still pay nothing.

Good business model. Makes donations go farther.

 

[Speedwell]

So according to you? What is your expertise that I should find your claims convincing?

Why, because they are self-evident. Cut off welfare to the lazy and sinful unwed mothers and they will immediately marry the unemployable fathers of their children and everything will be just fine.

 

[cow451]

I don't send my children to government schools, I want a refund as well. As for roads, I would love to see them be privatized. Everything you cite should be in private hands with the exception of enforcement of basic Christian law, which God gives to the state, and national defense against foreign invasion.

You don't seem to fond of the US Constitution.

 

[DaisyDay]

How do you objectively quantify that?

There is the GINI index.

 

[Arcangl86]

Good business model. Makes donations go farther.

Yeah, and after the 2009 recession we felt we had no choice. It was still very controversial though, partially because of the concern of families being kicked off insurance or having their rates go up due to a trip to the hospital.

 

[Redwingfan9]

So according to you? What is your expertise that I should find your claims convincing?

Not according to me at all, government statistics, stats compiled by people like Thomas Sowell and others back up my claim.

 

[Redwingfan9]

You don't seem to fond of the US Constitution.

I'm not overly fond of it but I would prefer to go back to the very limited powers it bestows on government rather than the expansive powers progressives have claimed it provides the state.