Do Two Jerusalems kill the Premill doctrine?

[Douggg]

The following is from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

You mean Geneva Study Bible. You are presenting someone's commentary from back around that time. Which that commentary is wrong.

Why don't you use the Geneva Study Bible commentary to answer the question of who are "my people" in Ezekiel 39:7 Gog/Magog event ? And what country God defends.

KJV Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

 

[Christian Gedge]

mkgal1, you are getting distracted. The 7weeks + 62weeks is until the arrival in Jerusalem of the messiah. Not when the messiah begins his ministry.

No, mkgal is right. Your count to Jesus' arrival on a donkey is based on a man made theory. (The Coming Prince, Sir Robert Anderson, Published 1895) It is a debunked theory and leads right up the bunny trail! Toss it out the window.

 

[Douggg]

No, mkgal is right. Your count to Jesus' arrival on a donkey is based on a man made theory.

What do you mean? It is right in the text.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

_______________________________________________________

Where are you reading anything about the beginning of the messiah's ministry anywhere in the text of Daniel 9? You are the one with man-made fabricated theory.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

[BABerean2]

Where are you reading anything about the beginning of the messiah's ministry anywhere in the text of Daniel 9? You are the one with man-made fabricated theory.

Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.



Act 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

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[Ed Parenteau]

John did not get the REvelation till near the end of the Century.

Jude 1
3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Jude was obviously the last book written, unless one were to argue that the book of the Revelation isn't part of the faith.

 

[nolidad]

Jude 1
3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Jude was obviously the last book written, unless one were to argue that the book of the Revelation isn't part of the faith.

When Jude wrote this, many churches had not seen most of the other letters written that became the new testament.

If most of the biblical scholarship is correct, Jude wrote his epistle between 70 and 90 AD which is 6- 26 years when they estimate JOhn wrote the revelation! The Apostles which were scattered abroad did not know of many of the writings going on. They taight as the Lord anointed them. And the faith which Jude writes of is the truth of Jesus!

 

[BABerean2]

When Jude wrote this, many churches had not seen most of the other letters written that became the new testament.

If most of the biblical scholarship is correct, Jude wrote his epistle between 70 and 90 AD which is 6- 26 years when they estimate JOhn wrote the revelation! The Apostles which were scattered abroad did not know of many of the writings going on. They taight as the Lord anointed them. And the faith which Jude writes of is the truth of Jesus!

Since the Holy Spirit stands outside of time, and space, the exact time when the text was recorded does not change the Word of God.

Some have argued the Apostle Paul did not know the 7th trumpet in the Book of Revelation was the "last" trumpet. This argument falls apart once we know who inspired both books.

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[nolidad]

These brethren disagree with you.

Justin Martyr (100-168): “The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against US THE CHRISTIANS…” (Dialogue With Trypho, 110).

Irenaeus (130-202): "For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist. . . . [A]nd [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one." (Against Heresies, V, 35, 1)

Tertullian (150-220): “The souls of the martyrs are taught to wait [Rev. 6]…that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the CHURCH of God…” (On the Resurrection of the Flesh, 25).

Hippolytus (160-240): “…the one thousand two hundred and three score days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the CHURCH, which flees from city to city, and seeks concealment in the wilderness among the mountains” (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61).

Cyprian (200-258): “The day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of the Antichrist to draw near, so that WE must all stand prepared for the battle…” (Epistle, 55, 1).

Victorinus (240-303): “…the times of Antichrist, when all shall be injured” (Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John, VI, 5).

Other than Cyprian in the 3rd Century- they are all speaking of a future time!
But what is the point? that they reject a future for the nation of Israel? Replacement theology as it is called now is very old in the Church thought. christians have been some of the most -anti-semitic people around. The term "kike" (Christ killer) came from people calling themselves Christians.

But the antichrist does war against the believing saints in the 7 year trib. They di dnot have much sound eschatological foundations! Just because they are old saints and their works recorded in the works of the antenicen fathers, do not make them some kind of infallible popes! Remember Origin, and Arius. They appear in the works as well.

 

[nolidad]

It is absolutely for the Church, with Paul declaring that it is unto all them that believe.

That's the Church, and no other.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Well I anxiously await to see how you attempt to tie this teaching from Paul with the Prophesy found in Daniel 9!

The word "ethnos" does not appear in the ancient Hebrew. The root word am means people.

Daniel's people Israel was a multiracial nation, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, from the time of its establishment, and throughout its history.

There was no covenant distinction between them, except in racialized modernist dispensational fallacy.

The only distinction is that seen in the words of Paul: all them that believe.

Which leaves otherwise only: all them that believe not.

Wrong again. Israel as a people can only be teh seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The proselytes were part of greater Israel but not Israel proper. Did you not ever study OT history?

If the strangers (yeah that is what God called them), were circumcised and obeyed the law of Moses they were to be considered like an Israeli, key word, like but as for the the promises- (the land, the throne etc) they were for the seed only!

There was no covenant distinction between them, except in racialized modernist dispensational fallacy.

Funny, but a proselyte was forbidden to enter the inner court of the temple, by God except to bring a sacrifice, otherwise he was restricted to the outer court (which was closer than the court of women).

In the church the most unracial group tends to be the dispensational folk!

 

[nolidad]

Since the Holy Spirit stands outside of time, and space, the exact time when the text was recorded does not change the Word of God.

Some have argued the Apostle Paul did not know the 7th trumpet in the Book of Revelation was the "last" trumpet. This argument falls apart once we know who inspired both books.

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So you are saying Paul knew the book of REvelation before God gave it to John? Sorry but that hypermystical ethereal view is filled with more problems than what it is worth.

And the only reason while allegorists say the rapture happens at the 7th trumpet is that they feel they have to tie the seventh or last trump with the 7 trumpet judgments!

But as the feasts of Israel , while real feasts celebrated by Israel, were types and shadows of things to come, that is the best explanation. All the feasts either are directed at the Messiah, the church or the kingdom gentile nations. The only one most authors tread so very carefully on is the feast of trumpets.

But when one studies that feast one sses a very significant type. The feast of tTrumpets has 4 sets of trumpet (shofar) blasts in 4 sets. 1 set of 90 3 sets of three, and then the trumpeter would take teh biggest breath he could, and on the stand by the temple gate would blow one long loud blast as long as he could! Thisd last trumpet sound was known in hebrew as the tekiah gedolah, which in English is translated as the great trump or last trump!

I would not be surprised if the rapture occured on the feast of Trumpets for the first time from the rebuilt temple! and as soon as that last trump sounds, the church hears the trump from heaven and we are caught up! While this is just opinion and could be 100% wrong- it would be a perfect move by God . Taking out the Body of Christ to show He is preparing to make Israel receive her Messiah!

 

[nolidad]

Okay. I completely agree with this conversion.

The point of origin = 457 BC (Ezra 7:1-27)

First week = 457 to 408 BC
62 weeks of 7 = 408 BC to 27 AD

Daniel 9:26 states:
After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing​

What comes after 69, if not 70?

The final "week" = 27 AD to 34 AD
In the middle of these 7 years is 30 AD....the year our Lord was "cut off" and crucified...."appearing to accomplish nothing". But then......He resurrected....ascended to heaven....and is seated on David's eternal throne.

Just do the simple math:

457 + 34 = 491 (there's no zero year...so 490 years total, as prophesied).

But your explanation is not what was told by the angel to Daniel. What it is is a retranslating the prophesy and that not even well!

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

If one told you after 69 weeks thus will happen- you would not understand it to be half way through another 7!

Unless modified to show a gap- Messiah is cut off right after the 483 years- not some time afterwards!

The he of vse 27 is the prince of the people that shall come. Jesus never empowered a covenant with Israel for a 7 nor did

Nearly all Christian historians place Jesus death at 30AD based on the timing of the festivals of Israel!

So he would have had to make this covenant with Israel sometime in 26 AD? First off He never made a covenant nor empowered a covenant! And it is only through mysticizing the SCriptures that one translates the sacrifice and oblation to cease! A normal common reading of this would have one go away understanding that this prince who makes or empowers a 7 year covenant with Israel in the middle of that week causes sacrifices and burnt offerings to end. Just like th eBook of REvelation stronlgy shows!

 

[BABerean2]

Replacement theology as it is called now is very old in the Church thought. christians have been some of the most -anti-semitic people around.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in the passage below. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. The Gentiles were grafted into the early Church several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today infer.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Modern Dispensationalism is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race, which ignores what Paul said about genealogies in the verse below.


Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


Has there been racial hatred down through the history of the world, and even to the present time? Absolutely.
Many of the Jews of Jesus time looked down on the Samaritans, based on their bloodline.

Paul had to correct Peter for treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers. Some are doing the same thing today.

Based on the words of the New Testament, there is now no difference between people of all races. They all need Christ for the same reason, and in the same way. There is no Plan B of salvation based on race.


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

.

 

[Christian Gedge]

What do you mean? It is right in the text.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

_______________________________________________________

Where are you reading anything about the beginning of the messiah's ministry anywhere in the text of Daniel 9? You are the one with man-made fabricated theory.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

I am aware that a donkey’s colt is predicted by a different prophet than the one we are speaking about. But what we are speaking about here is Daniel’s prediction.

If you want to conflate the two prophecies, as Sir Robert Anderson tried to do, you will have to do these three things:

1. Tell us the date Jesus came into Jerusalem on the donkey. (per Zechariah’s prophecy)
2. Tell us the date that a decree was made to rebuild Jerusalem. (per Daniel’s prophecy)
3. Prove to us that there were exactly 69 ‘weeks’ (483 years) in-between these two dates.

You will indeed find yourself following a man made theory. You will indeed find yourself up a bunny trail. Now, no more talk please Doug. Give us the two dates so that we can see if your theory has merit or not.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

In Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

"Stand up" is an idiom for about to go to war. (it is also used that way in Daniel 8:23)

In Revelation 12:7-9, Michael and his angels fight Satan and his angels. After Satan and his angels are cast down to earth (from the second heaven the cosmos) ...

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens [indicates more than one heaven involved], and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

...there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Satan's time, as king of Mystery Babylon the Great, his kingdom (which also comes to an end), will expire when Jesus returns and Satan is bound in chains and cast into the bottomless pit, to be a terror no more.*

The most he can do after being released from the bottomless pit for a short time at the end of the millennium is to go out and deceive the nations.
____________________________________________________________

* Ezekiel 28:18-19 is about the end of Satan as a terror.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [the statue image that Satan will be possessing at the time, will be ignited and quickly disintegrated by Jesus's brightness, exposing Satan there on the temple mount]

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Ezekiel 28 is about the King of Tyre and his upcoming destruction when "never shalt thou be any more."
13"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
From Albert Barnes: Thou hast been in Eden - "Thou" wast etc. The prince of Tyrus is ironically described as the first of creation; but at the same time the parallel is to be maintained in his fall from glory. Like Adam in the enjoyment of paradise, he shall be like Adam in his fall.

Now, as a type of the "man of sin" I would agree. There is an important clue as to who he would be. The stones mentioned are those of Exodus 39:8-14 of the breastplate of the high priest.

From Josephus
Of the War — Book IV chapter 3
This is the account of the last high priest from that book: ad 67-70

3... Those men made the temple of God a strong hold for them, and a place whither they might resort, in order to avoid the troubles they feared from the people: the sanctuary was now become a refuge, and a shop of tyranny. They also mixed jesting among the miseries they introduced, which was more intolerable than what they did: for in order to try what surprise the people would be under, and how far their own power extended, they undertook to dispose of the High-priesthood by casting lots for it: whereas, as we have said already, it was to descend by succession in a family. The pretence they made for this strange attempt was an ancient practice, while they said that of old it was determined by lot.4 But in truth it was no better than a dissolution of an undeniable law, and a cunning contrivance to seize upon the government, derived from those that presumed to appoint governors as they themselves pleased.

5 tribes, which is called Eniachim, (6) and cast lots which of it should be the High-priest. By fortune the lot so fell as to demonstrate their iniquity after the plainest manner; for it fell upon one whose name was Phannias, the son of Samuel, of the village Aphtha. He was a man not only unworthy of the High-priesthood, but that did not well know what the High-priesthood was. Such a mere rustic was he. Yet did they hale this man, without his own consent, out of the country; as if they were acting a play upon the stage; and adorned him with a counterfeit face. They also put upon him the sacred garments; and upon every occasion instructed him what he was to do. This horrid piece of wickedness was sport and pastime with them. But occasioned the other priests, who, at a distance, saw their law made a jest of, to shed tears, and sorely lament the dissolution of such a sacred dignity.
Ananus stood in the midst of them; and casting his eyes frequently at the temple, and having a flood of tears in his eyes, he said, “Certainly it had been good for me to die before I had seen the house of God full of so many abominations; or these sacred places, that ought not to be trodden upon at random, filled with the feet of these blood-shedding villains.

Is it a coincidence that the book of Hebrews was written at this time and says 6:20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

[nolidad]

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in the passage below. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. The Gentiles were grafted into the early Church several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today infer.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Modern Dispensationalism is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race, which ignores what Paul said about genealogies in the verse below.


Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


Has there been racial hatred down through the history of the world, and even to the present time? Absolutely.
Many of the Jews of Jesus time looked down on the Samaritans, based on their bloodline.

Paul had to correct Peter for treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers. Some are doing the same thing today.

Based on the words of the New Testament, there is now no difference between people of all races. They all need Christ for the same reason, and in the same way. There is no Plan B of salvation based on race.


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

.

I agree 100% with everything you said here with one exception:

Modern Dispensationalism is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race, which ignores what Paul said about genealogies in the verse below.

Well I am a modern dispensationalist (at least I think so) and I have no clue what you mean by dual covenant theology.

If by that you mean that the nation of Israel was governed by the Old Mosaic covenant which covenant has now been done away and replaced by the new-then I agree!

There is only one race of man- the human race! I agree everyone if they wish to be saved has to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus alone! Having said that, I also accept OT prophesies concerning the people of the nation of Israel as still unfulfilled. I reject replacement theology which gives the church the rights to unfulfilled prophesies.

God clearly said that His promises to Israel (the people not the spiritual people) are binding upon Himself (Jeremiah 31 for example)

God also said in Zech.13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

King James Version (KJV)

Now the land refers to physical Israel! During the tribulation period (Daniels 70th week) 2/3 of all Israelis will die , but the one third left will be purged and call upon the Lord and god will hear them and answer! As he said in Ezekiel 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord

And also to fulfill the prophesy of Jesus Himself!

Matthew 23:36-39 King James Version (KJV)
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus did not say, unless or if- but until which tells the reader that Israel will say that and Jesus shall return!

 

[BABerean2]

Well I am a modern dispensationalist (at least I think so) and I have no clue what you mean by dual covenant theology.

If by that you mean that the nation of Israel was governed by the Old Mosaic covenant which covenant has now been done away and replaced by the new-then I agree!

There is only one race of man- the human race! I agree everyone if they wish to be saved has to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus alone! Having said that, I also accept OT prophesies concerning the people of the nation of Israel as still unfulfilled. I reject replacement theology which gives the church the rights to unfulfilled prophesies.

God clearly said that His promises to Israel (the people not the spiritual people) are binding upon Himself (Jeremiah 31 for example)

Pastor John Hagee and others claim modern Jews do not need Christ, because they are under a different covenant with God. The modern Papacy has sometimes made similar claims. Many Dispensationalists claim modern Jews will one day come to faith outside of the Church. Both of these are forms of Dual Covenant Theology, which is less than 200 years old.

Many of the Pilgrims believed Jews would one day return to the land and come to faith in Christ. However, they did not believe this would happen outside of the Church.

If Jeremiah 31:31-34 was not fulfilled during the first century, the author of the Book of Hebrews is very confused in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18.
Notice the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6.

(Pastor John Hagee prays at dedication of new U.S. embassy in the modern State of Israel.
He leaves one important name out of his prayer.
He claims earthly Jerusalem is eternal, by ignoring 2 Peter 3:10-13.)

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[Douggg]

• Tell us the date Jesus came into Jerusalem on the donkey. (per Zechariah’s prophecy)

• Tell us the date that a decree was made to rebuild Jerusalem. (per Daniel’s prophecy)

• Prove to us that there were exactly 69 ‘weeks’ (483 years) in-between these two dates.

I don't need to do any of that. I am not interesting in, nor find any reason to have to put anything on the Gregorian or any other calendar. That's your game, not mine. I go by what is in the text of the bible.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem riding the donkey hailed as the messiah IN THE TEXT. 4 days later crucified. Fulfilling Daniel 9:25 and Daniel 9:26. There is nothing about the beginning of the messiah's ministry in the text of Daniel 9. That's part of your man-made theory.

The 70th week is still unfulfilled.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 28 is about the King of Tyre and his upcoming destruction when "never shalt thou be any more."
13"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
From Albert Barnes: Thou hast been in Eden - "Thou" wast etc. The prince of Tyrus is ironically described as the first of creation; but at the same time the parallel is to be maintained in his fall from glory. Like Adam in the enjoyment of paradise, he shall be like Adam in his fall.

The King of Tyre is a code name for Satan. The verses are about Satan, not human being.



14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I am not interesting in, nor find any reason to have to put anything on the Gregorian or any other calendar.

You should be interested, because Daniel's 'weeks' were part of the ancient Hebrew calendar.

I go by what is in the text of the bible.

In that case you may have noticed Daniel's words, "Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city ... to make an end of sins", was quoted by John the Baptist when he said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" If you took more interest in calendars, you might also notice that John made that declaration over Jesus on the first day of the 70th week.

The 70th week is still unfulfilled.

The seventieth week was fulfilled from 1st Nisan AD27 until 29th Adar AD34. The confirmation of the new covenant took all 7 years and sacrifice ceased (in Gods eyes) in the midst of the week.

 

[Douggg]

You should be interested, because Daniel's 'weeks' were part of the ancient Hebrew calendar.

I don't care as far as knowing that the messiah arrived in Jerusalem on what Christians celebrate as Psalms Sunday. Four days later, he was cutoff, crucified, and three days later rose from being dead on Easter.

No calendar necessary.

In that case you may have noticed Daniel's words, "Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city ... to make an end of sins", was quoted by John the Baptist when he said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" If you took more interest in calendars, you might also notice that John made that declaration over Jesus on the first day of the 70th week.

So? Fact is Jesus did not take away the sins of the world until dying on the cross. Not when he was baptized by John.

There is nothing in Daniel 9 text about the beginning of the messiah ministry - that is some man-made theory.

The seventieth week was fulfilled from 1st Nisan AD27 until 29th Adar AD34. The confirmation of the new covenant took all 7 years and sacrifice ceased (in Gods eyes) in the midst of the week.

The only covenant found in Daniel 9 is the one that Daniel's people transgressed. And the confirming of that covenant on a 7 year cycle is found in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

That the 7 years are in Ezekiel 39; and in Revelation 11 and Revelation 12 by adding the timeframes, is more evidence the 70th week is still future.

The 70 weeks do not end with the stoning of Stephen, a negative incident, and nothing on par with the Second Coming glorious return of Jesus in great power and glory which will be the true ending of the 70 weeks. The theory that you are holding, and them who think likewise, is an offense to the Second Coming of Jesus.