Do Two Jerusalems kill the Premill doctrine?

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BABerean2

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Which Jerusalem will be the home of believers at the Second Coming of Christ?

The answer to this question exposes the truth about the Premill doctrine.

Do many references to Jerusalem in the Old Testament refer to New Jerusalem?

Is there a sin-cursed earth, and a New Earth Peter was looking for in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

If we will rule upon the earth, which earth will it be?


Earthly Jerusalem vs. Heavenly Jerusalem


Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
(Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship?)


Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Here Paul contrasts the two cities. Which one is our “mother”?)



Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
(What is the promised land in this passage?)



Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


…………………………………………………………………


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(Where was our Lord crucified? This identifies the “great city” in other passages found below.)



Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. (Has this “great city” fallen more than one time?)


Rev_16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(The greatest earthquake in history is found in Revelation chapter 16. Notice what the text says about islands and mountains.)


Rev_17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Rev_18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. (Is the wicked “great city” also defined here as “Mystery Babylon”?)


Rev_18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!


Rev_18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! (The city is destroyed by fire.)


Rev_18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.


Rev_18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


What city replaces the wicked "great city" in the Book of Revelation?



Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


Rev_21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,


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BABerean2

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You can't kill a true doctrine. You can only attempt to confuse it.

It is going to be difficult to worship in earthly Jerusalem, when the city is destroyed in the Book of Revelation.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


Pastor Wagner on problems with the Premill doctrine.


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SeventyOne

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It is going to be difficult to worship in earthly Jerusalem, when the city is destroyed in the Book of Revelation.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


Pastor Wagner on problems with the Premill doctrine.


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Only 1/10th of it is actually destroyed.

Rev 11:13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

I speculate this is the part the peace plan is giving over to the Palestinians.
 
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Douggg

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It is going to be difficult to worship in earthly Jerusalem, when the city is destroyed in the Book of Revelation.
You have wrongly identified the city that is destroyed. Babylon the Great is a code name for the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels, that has held sway over the nations. That kingdom will be destroyed.

Jerusalem, the one you refuse to admit is the Jerusalem in Zechariah 14, where the Mt of Olives is located, and will be split in half when Jesus returns and stands on it, will be the place where the world will come to worship the Great King during the millennium.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
 
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DavidPT

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Which Jerusalem will be the home of believers at the Second Coming of Christ?

The answer to this question exposes the truth about the Premill doctrine.

Do many references to Jerusalem in the Old Testament refer to New Jerusalem?

Is there a sin-cursed earth, and a New Earth Peter was looking for in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

If we will rule upon the earth, which earth will it be?


Earthly Jerusalem vs. Heavenly Jerusalem


I'm Premil, yet in some regards I'm not your typical Premil. Let's start with the following in Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This beloved city, which city do you take this to mean? As to me, I tend to take it to mean the city in Revelation 21:2 after it has already descended from God out of heaven. IOW, it is already physically present on the earth when it gets surrounded.

As to Amil, this can't even work because no matter how you look at it, Revelation 21:2 can't even get fulfilled until the 2nd coming happens first, and that Amils already have this beloved city being surrounded before the 2nd coming even happens.


Something I have considered for a long time now and am still considering, maybe Revelation 20:9 is running in parallel with some of the events recorded in Zechariah 14? If this is the case, clearly Premil can't work, then.

In Zechariah 14 a city is being surrounded in that verse. In Zechariah 14 that soon follows by the 2nd coming, which could be meaning Zechariah 14:12 and this in Revelation 20:9---and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. But one problem with this view, Zechariah 14:16-19 is meaning after the fulfillment of Zechariah 14:12, which then makes it after the fulfillment of the 2nd coming.

If Zechariah 14:16-19 is after the 2nd coming, and it clearly is, though I realize some of you adamantly disagree, those verses only make sense if they are only occurring during a certain length of time where that length of time has an end eventually, otherwise one is left to conclude that it will be like that for forever and ever. Per Premil there is a certain length of time like that after the 2nd coming, that being the thousand years.


So while some of you might already have your minds fully made up about most or all of these things, I for one don't, as can be seen above.
 
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BABerean2

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I'm Premil, yet in some regards I'm not your typical Premil. Let's start with the following in Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This beloved city, which city do you take this to mean? As to me, I tend to take it to mean the city in Revelation 21:2 after it has already descended from God out of heaven. IOW, it is already physically present on the earth when it gets surrounded.

As to Amil, this can't even work because no matter how you look at it, Revelation 21:2 can't even get fulfilled until the 2nd coming happens first, and that Amils already have this beloved city being surrounded before the 2nd coming even happens.


Something I have considered for a long time now and am still considering, maybe Revelation 20:9 is running in parallel with some of the events recorded in Zechariah 14? If this is the case, clearly Premil can't work, then.

In Zechariah 14 a city is being surrounded in that verse. In Zechariah 14 that soon follows by the 2nd coming, which could be meaning Zechariah 14:12 and this in Revelation 20:9---and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. But one problem with this view, Zechariah 14:16-19 is meaning after the fulfillment of Zechariah 14:12, which then makes it after the fulfillment of the 2nd coming.

If Zechariah 14:16-19 is after the 2nd coming, and it clearly is, though I realize some of you adamantly disagree, those verses only make sense if they are only occurring during a certain length of time where that length of time has an end eventually, otherwise one is left to conclude that it will be like that for forever and ever. Per Premil there is a certain length of time like that after the 2nd coming, that being the thousand years.


So while some of you might already have your minds fully made up about most or all of these things, I for one don't, as can be seen above.


How did the wicked "great city" in Revelation 11:8 transform into your city in Revelation 20?

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BABerean2

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You have wrongly identified the city that is destroyed.

What is the wicked "great city" in Revelation 11:8, and what is the spiritual condition of that city?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


What did Peter say below?
And where was Peter head of the church?

1Pe 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.
1Pe 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
1Pe 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.


That same city will be split in half as it is being destroyed by the greatest earthquake in history, which is found in Revelation chapter 16. This is the event you are describing at the Mount of Olives.

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Douggg

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What is the wicked "great city" in Revelation 11:8, and what is the spiritual condition of that city?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
It is talking about the Jerusalem being under occupancy of them who were woshipping the beast. It is the beast who kills the two witnesses. when no-one else was able to.

He makes war on the two witnesses and overcomes them. In Revelation 13, thus, they say... who is like unto the beast, who is able to make war with him.

That same city will be split in half as it is being destroyed by the greatest earthquake in history, which is found in Revelation chapter 16. This is the event you are describing at the Mount of Olives.
I am not going to get into debate of "The church that is at Babylon", as that is never ending - and has nothing to do with Mystery Babylon the Great - which Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

That goes all the way back to Abel, long before Jerusalem even existed. Babylon the Great is a code name for the kingdom of Satan and his angels, that has held sway over the nations. That kingdom will be destroyed.

In Revelation 16, it not anything split in "half". The world is what will be split into three parts, that has been under Satan's domain, and profited from, by the unprecedented global earthquake. Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Differently, in Zechariah 14, it is the Mt.of Olives that will be split in half, as Jesus stands on the Mt. of Olives, in Jerusalem.


I show the 7th vial on my chart, and the world split into three parts, down at the bottom.



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BABerean2

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In Revelation 16, it not anything split in "half". The world is what will be split into three parts,

If the Mount of Olives is split in "half", then one more split anywhere in the city would mean the area as a whole split into three parts.

If an earthquake is the most powerful in history, and destroys the cities on this planet, and moves the islands, and destroys the mountains, what do you think is going to happen to the earthly city of Jerusalem?

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


Your Bible says the same thing.

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Douggg

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If the Mount of Olives is split in "half", then one more split anywhere in the city would mean the area as a whole split into three parts.
Jerusalem doesn't contain the cities of the nations. Nor the islands. Nor the mountains. The final vial of God's wrath is poured out on the world that has profited from the workings of Satan and his angels' kingdom - code named Babylon the great.
 
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BABerean2

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Jerusalem doesn't contain the cities of the nations.


Jerusalem is one of the cities of the nations destroyed by the greatest earthquake in history, found in Revelation chapter 16.

What is the wicked "great city" in Revelation 11:8, where our Lord was crucified, just before the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18?

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Douggg

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What is the wicked "great city" in Revelation 11:8, where our Lord was crucified, just before the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18?
It is not indicating the Jews in Jerusalem were wicked. It is indicating that them from the nations occupying Jerusalem were worshiping the beast, deceived by Satan, spiritually on par like Sodom and Egypt.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

________________________________________________

It is not just trumpet. It is the seventh angel sounding his trumpet.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

When the seven angel sounds his trumpet, the casting down of Satan and his angels to earth takes place. And Satan then knowing that he has but a little time left, is a terror to them on the earth. The third woe.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I show the proper place of the seventh angel sounding his trumpet, Revelation 11:15, on my chart.



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BABerean2

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It is not indicating the Jews in Jerusalem were wicked.




Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


(Orthodox Rabbi gives his views about Christ. Video produced by a Bible College in central Israel.)

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Douggg

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Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


(Orthodox Rabbi gives his views about Christ. Video produced by a Bible College in central Israel.)

.
The Jews will turn to Jesus, when their perceived messiah, the Antichrist, turns on them and claims to be God.

Revelation 12:10 is referring to the Jews.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 
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BABerean2

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Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.



Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Those in verse 10 are identified in verse 11. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb, and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. The Capital "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation.



Since the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, Christ returns in Revelation 11:15-18. The spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem at that time is found in Revelation 11:8.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


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Douggg

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Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.



Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Those in verse 10 are identified in verse 11. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb, and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.



Since the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, Christ returns in Revelation 11:15-18. The spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem at that time is found in Revelation 11:8.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

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new covenant faith group promotion - which can't admit that they are not Israel, nor Jews, in spite of Jesus returning to the mount of olives to rescue the Jews there.

"like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:"

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
 
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BABerean2

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new covenant faith group promotion - which can't admit that they are not Israel, nor Jews, in spite of Jesus returning to the mount of olives to rescue the Jews there.

Who did James address his letter to, if it was not Israel?
This passage proves that faithful Israel and the Church cannot be separated.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine is one of the pillars of modern Dispensational Theology. It falls apart in the passage below. It is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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Douggg

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Who did James address his letter to, if it was not Israel?
This passage proves that faithful Israel and the Church cannot be separated.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine is one of the pillars of modern Dispensational Theology. It falls apart in the passage below.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.
The passage proves that some individuals from the various twelve tribes were Christians.
 
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BABerean2

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The passage proves that some individuals from the various twelve tribes were Christians.


Do you think James was ignoring those who had been Gentiles, or did he know many of those Gentiles were from the tribes taken into captivity hundreds of years earlier?

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.



Why did Paul still call himself an "Israelite", even after his conversion, in Romans 11:1-5?
Did Paul reveal two different groups of Israelites in the passage, one faithful to God, and one not?

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Once again, faithful Israel and the Church cannot be separated.

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