No sign of Antifa in civil unrest cases...

[Tanj]

Wait a second....so it doesn't matter if there's dozens and dozens of local chapters of Antifa if there's no national level organisation?

1) How can there be chapters without a national organisation? You have to be a chapter of something.
2) I set the bar higher than "facebook group"

Do you apply the same standards to white supremacy? Terrorist cells?

I apply the same standards to knitting circles, car fanciers, dog fanciers or, like my brother, bonsai tree growers. But yes, if there existed the Rose City ISIS facebook group I would assume absolutely no connections with ISIS...which, unlike antifa, actually is an organisation. Because, amongst other things,

ITS FACEBOOK

 

[tall73]

there's dozens and dozens of local chapters of Antifa
?

Statement on the Far-Right's Attempt to Criminalize Protest of Concentration Camp Deaths and Hate Groups

Rose City ANTIFA not only thinks they are a group, but they refer to other ANTIFA groups, and allied groups who signed onto a joint statement.

Here are the ANTIFA groups they list among them. There are a large number of other supporting groups as well who do not specifically use the ANTIFA designation.

• Southern Oregon Antifa
• Eugene Antifa
• Gresham Antifa
• Antifa Seven Hills
• Berkeley Antifa
• Corvallis Antifa
• Rocky Mountain Antifa
• Emerald City Antifa
• Antifa International
• Antifa Sacramento
• Jam City Antifa
• Hub City Antifa
• Black Mast Antifa
• Long Beach Antifa
• Philly Antifa
• Elm City Antifa
• DC Antifa

Why do you think they are under the impression these other groups exist, and that they emailed them to be added to their list? They also include Antifa International, whatever that might be. My understanding is that they use a tumblr, not a Facebook!

 

[Ana the Ist]

1) How can there be chapters without a national organisation? You have to be a chapter of something.
2) I set the bar higher than "facebook group"



I apply the same standards to knitting circles, car fanciers, dog fanciers or, like my brother, bonsai tree growers. But yes, if there existed the Rose City ISIS facebook group I would assume absolutely no connections with ISIS...which, unlike antifa, actually is an organisation. Because, amongst other things,

ITS FACEBOOK

What a relief...I guess all that white supremacy stuff was a lot of hot air.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Statement on the Far-Right's Attempt to Criminalize Protest of Concentration Camp Deaths and Hate Groups

Rose City ANTIFA not only thinks they are a group, but they refer to other ANTIFA groups, and allied groups who signed onto a joint statement.

Here are the ANTIFA groups they list among them. There are a large number of other supporting groups as well who do not specifically use the ANTIFA designation.

• Southern Oregon Antifa
• Eugene Antifa
• Gresham Antifa
• Antifa Seven Hills
• Berkeley Antifa
• Corvallis Antifa
• Rocky Mountain Antifa
• Emerald City Antifa
• Antifa International
• Antifa Sacramento
• Jam City Antifa
• Hub City Antifa
• Black Mast Antifa
• Long Beach Antifa
• Philly Antifa
• Elm City Antifa
• DC Antifa

Why do you think they are under the impression these other groups exist, and that they emailed them to be added to their list? They also include Antifa International, whatever that might be. My understanding is that they use a tumblr, not a Facebook!

The funny thing is these people regularly break the law, show up wearing masks, and people are acting surprised that they're isn't some online signup sheet or whatever.

Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[Tanj]

What a relief...I guess all that white supremacy stuff was a lot of hot air.

Only for those that think "white supremacy" is itself an organisation. So you, basically.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Only for those that think "white supremacy" is itself an organisation. So you, basically.

Don't forget Antifa lol.

 

[Tanj]

Don't forget Antifa lol.

Well, no Ana. Antifa is an (alleged) group. "white supremacy" is an ideology. They're not the same thing. Now if you were going with KKK vs antifa, that would make sense. But it would be like discussion the KKK vs socialism. One's a group, the other is not. That you cannot see the difference is just weird.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, no Ana. Antifa is an (alleged) group. "white supremacy" is an ideology.

Well there's no white supremacist groups so I wouldn't worry about lol.

 

[Tanj]

Well there's no white supremacist groups so I wouldn't worry about lol.

The KKK doesn't exist in your world? Can I live there?

 

[tall73]

Well, no Ana. Antifa is an (alleged) group.

Any idea why the Rose City Antifa web page lists all these other Antifa groups that signed their statement of shared condemnations? Do you think they are all confused about being groups with joint statements?

Statement on the Far-Right's Attempt to Criminalize Protest of Concentration Camp Deaths and Hate Groups

• Southern Oregon Antifa
• Eugene Antifa
• Gresham Antifa
• Antifa Seven Hills
• Berkeley Antifa
• Corvallis Antifa
• Rocky Mountain Antifa
• Emerald City Antifa
• Antifa International
• Antifa Sacramento
• Jam City Antifa
• Hub City Antifa
• Black Mast Antifa
• Long Beach Antifa
• Philly Antifa
• Elm City Antifa
• DC Antifa

 

[tall73]

One of the organizations mentioned is Antifa Seven Hills. Here is an article that recounts an interview with one of their members. It also notes that they hosted a gathering of antifascist groups from around the nation organized by the Torch network.

Inside Antifa Seven Hills | RVA Mag

Remaining connected with other anti-fascist groups across the country is imperative to their mission. As a part of the Torch Network, Antifa Seven Hills is one of many organizations across the country that he said “appeals to a new generation of anti-fascists.” Born out of the Anti-Racist Action Network, the new network rose in response to growing racist sentiments from the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Each year, a branch of the organization hosts the Torch Network Conference. Antifa Seven Hills will have that honor this year over Labor Day weekend. This was when my conversation with Eric started turning secretive. “I can’t tell you very much about it,” he said. For safety and secrecy, Eric gave me the general details about the conference: a two-day event that includes a private, member-only day and a semi-public portion that includes workshops, speakers, and a social environment for anti-fascists and the like to connect. He said, “We’re inviting anti-fascists and radicals from across the continent to share experiences, refine strategies, and critically analyze ongoing liberation struggles we are engaged with.”



Here is the site of the torch network:

https://torchantifa.org/

If you go there they host articles from various Antifa groups.

So the first three articles for instance are by Rose City Antifa, Antifa Seven Hills, and Antifasac

It also has a resources page that lists how to start a group, principles on security and to avoid talking to police, etc.

Resources - TORCH NETWORK

 

[tall73]

no way even hints at antifa being in anyway involved in any aspect of the current unrest.

Now on this we agree. I haven't seen the evidence of their involvement, certainly not on a wide scale.

Moreover, if their involvement was protest, that is fine. I don't think designating them as a domestic terrorist group is overly helpful. If they commit illegal acts, arrest them for that, just as proudboys, or any other group that is engaged in illegal acts or violence should be arrested.

My point was simply that they do appear to organize. But they specifically organize as closed, autonomous local groups. They have cooperation, but do not appear to have central, top-down coordination.

 

[KCfromNC]

Hopefully they noticed the post it was in response to.

And that the response had to find one instance from a year and a half old to back up assertions that there's a pressing immanent, well, something happening.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And that the response had to find one instance from a year and a half old to back up assertions that there's a pressing immanent, well, something happening.

One instance?

I also posted a link from the ADL claiming that Antifa is in favor of political violence. There's plenty of instances of them beating people on video, plenty of injured victims, multiple arrests....

How much evidence is needed? Honestly, if the words and actions of Antifa members themselves isn't enough evidence that they're a violent left wing extremist group....what evidence do you need?

 

[DaisyDay]

They're a left wing extremist group....they use and advocate violence.

Third man charged in alleged antifa assault of two Marine reservists in Philadelphia

I'm not sure what part you're confused about.

Antifa activists say violence is necessary

Antifa is not "a" group. They are many separate groups operating under the same banner.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Antifa is not "a" group. They are many separate groups operating under the same banner.

That's a pretty baffling statement. I've seen people on here play semantic games but this is next level lol.

What's the difference between a "group" and a lot of "groups" that identify the same way and have the same goals and methods?

 

[tall73]

Antifa is not "a" group. They are many separate groups operating under the same banner.

I would largely agree with that. They are autonomous local groups who work towards similar goals, and cooperate at times.

 

[tall73]

That's a pretty baffling statement. I've seen people on here play semantic games but this is next level lol.

What's the difference between a "group" and a lot of "groups" that identify the same way and have the same goals and methods?

The main difference is just a de-centralized loose network of cooperating groups, vs. a closely coordinated top down group.

I think what she stated seems accurate. They are not one group. But they are all cooperating local groups with the same aim. That is why they can sign on to each other's agreements, and share information about possible fascist goings on at the local and national level.

It is done on purpose to maintain anonymity and to keep particular leaders from discrediting the organization if they run into legal trouble, etc.

There were various local groups that shared ideology, and over time started to work together.

 

[wing2000]

My my...why all the energy around Antifa? [yes, I get it, Trump needs a named target....but of course the people who have committed violent acts are a mix of races, identities, political affiliations and personal motives - does anyone really dispute that - seriously?].

Getting back to the actual report filed in court :

Of the cases brought so far, 20 involve allegations related to arson; 16 involve the illegal possession of a firearm, more often than not by a felon; another eight people face charges related to inciting a riot or civil disorder.

The single instance in which an extremist group is mentioned in court documents is a case against three Nevada men. Federal prosecutors allege the trio belong to the right-wing Boogaloo movement that wants to bring about a civil war. The men have been charged with plotting violence during Las Vegas protests.

....can we discuss real investigative findings or are we going to continue having a conversation based on false premise asserted by the POTUS and his AG?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The main difference is just a de-centralized loose network of cooperating groups, vs. a closely coordinated top down group.

Definition of GROUP

Notice anything there? There's nothing about top-down organizational structure.

: a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship

Now, Antifa regularly assembles together....but the unifying relationship between it's members is membership in Antifa.

It's entirely appropriate to call Antifa a group because by definition, Antifa is a group.

This is honestly one of the most bizarre threads I've seen on CF. You know what doesn't matter? If Antifa has a strong centralized heirarchy. You know what does matter? They're violent left wing extremists.