So God created us with a design flaw, and then he punished us for him building us with a design flaw?
How does that work?
We are created, thus we are not God and God is the only perfect being. It wasn't a design FLAW, it was just the created vs. the non-Created.
Of course it's not as simple as I've said, there's a lot of complex biochemical interactions that would have been required. But there's nothing implausible. Evolution is certainly capable of producing some very complex interactions.
Evolution is after the fact of life from non-life. Abiogenesis is necessary PRIOR to evolution. Evolution is a dead end without life and non-living materials have never given rise to life. Even with the help from intelligent humans (and the success of any experiments depend on this) have never shown it possible.[Quote
But it's not implausible.
I don't care if you think it is plausible or not, that is not the point. You claim you are only about Valid evidence, and there is no evidence valid or not to show that non-living materials gave rise to life. There is no Valid evidence to show that non-intelligent matter gave rise to intelligence. It is just as extraordinary to claim this, which then would need extraordinary evidence to validate it.
The idea of a God who just existed and then intelligently designed all the universe in a way to make it look like evolution did it is far more extraordinary.
We as humans are looking back in time and labeled the system evolution. God didn't "make it look like evolution" we are studying how God did it and have labeled it evolution.
Very well. Please show me these sources about Jesus that come from the time of Jesus.
They are the authors of the New Testament. The New Testament is a historical manuscript that gives people, places, locations and events that historical scholars have shown to be accurate. They were eyewitnesses to the events written in that Historical document. There are 25,000 manuscripts to date.
That's like saying Star Trek is real because it gets details right about historical people and places.
Well it is up to you to show manuscripts or documentation that would provide evidence that Jesus did not exist. I've provided support in the New Testament, as well as other sources that support His existence and His crucifixion.
I don't think I posted this before but :
This is very significant as it was written around 70 AD from Mara Bar-Serapion to his son to encourage him:
“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?…After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men…The wise king…Lived on in the teachings he enacted.”
It is obvious that He is using real life people as his examples.
I have read the Bible, you know. I have also examined the contradictions myself and found that some of them I actually disagreed with. So don't tell me that I haven't actually understood it just because I disagree with you.
It isn't that you disagree, it is that you are ignorant of important facts about Christianity which you would not be if you had actually read the Bible as you claim you have.
Yes it did happen in the source.
The punishment was mentioned in 16:2 and the fire was not mentioned until 38:1. Don't take my word for it, go and see it for yourself.
Suetonius • Life of Nero
I explained this and I have said I am done with your analogy.
[QuoteI'll weait, although I doubt you'll ever get around to it.[/Quote]I have to say that is possible. I have a life outside of this forum.
And how do you know that the Bible authors were eyewitnesses? Are you just taking it as fact that the Gospels were written by the people tradition attributes them to?
I accept them as historical manuscripts that historical scholars have determined to be accurate of the time. I have no reason to doubt them anymore than I would doubt other ancient writers of historical merit. We have people claiming to be who they are and that they did witness the events they have written about.
Of course not. But if I was talking about something important and someone said that they thought I was being affected by such biases, I'd consider whast they had to say.
I'm sorry but I really have my doubts.
He wasn't born until about 100 years AFTER the crucifiction. How do you think he made sure he had the facts? All Lucian's work proves is that there were people who believed in Jesus. Lucian could have believed that Jesus actually existed as well, but not viewed him as some divine being, and still mocked Christians.
“The Christians, you know,
worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account….You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.” (Lucian, The Death of Peregrine. 11-13)
Why if He didn't exist would he call Him a man rather than a mythic person? Why would he talk about Him being crucified? You have to show that Lucian didn't know for sure Jesus lived and was crucified since that is exactly what he says. Just because it doesn't fit within your view, you throw it out and make an unsubstantiated claim.
Then please, by all means, provide these sources from me. Please make sure these sources do actuall meet the criteria I specified, okay?
What criteria was that?
Actually, I haven't really read much of their stuff. You asked for people qualified in relevant fields who take the mythicist position. You did not ask me what people qualified in relevant fields I get my information from.
Hmm.
