Church discipline for morbidly obese

[GaveMeJoy]

Are you saying that someone who is overweight, even obese, cannot have true fellowship with the Lord?
That's nonsense.

No. If you read the thread OP we are talking about people who are morbidly obese which necessitates gluttony. One cannot physically be morbidly obese without substantial, incessant and pathological overeating. If someone in this situation refuses to acknowledge their sin and respond to support and intervention from church leadership, I think church discipline procedures could be an option. I don’t think this is really a realistic scenario tho because i assume all Christians who are morbidly obese and overeating to the extend required would be able to identify this as a sin and fight against it. Church discipline is reserved for unrepentant sinners who refuse rebuke from the elders.

Any sin, from homosexuality to adultery to alcohol/drugs, gossip, gluttony whatever that a church member refuses to acknowledge as such is the same and I think has the same end point.

 

[Strong in Him]

No. If you read the thread OP we are talking about people who are morbidly obese which necessitates gluttony. One cannot physically be morbidly obese without substantial, incessant and pathological overeating.

Yes they can. I've just said that I have read about someone who put on 17 stone - because they had Cushing's disease and it wasn't diagnosed for a long time.

If someone in this situation refuses to acknowledge their sin and respond to support and intervention from church leadership, I think church discipline procedures could be an option.

I don't; personally.
Someone's weight gain may indeed be due to overeating, but that's between themselves and God. They are only sinning against themselves and not harming the church. A Minister could preach a sermon on "having other idols" or "anything that stands between you and God"; I don't believe they have the right to approach someone and say "so, about your gluttony .....".
If you go down the route of disciplining someone for their eating habits, where will it end? Someone decides you shouldn't be drinking? Smoking? Have pierced ears? I wouldn't go to a church where a Minister dominated and dictated to me in that way.

Church discipline is reserved for unrepentant sinners who refuse rebuke from the elders.

Where are we told that overeating is a sin against God?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

We had morbidly obese family in the church and it was never addressed as a spiritual issue by our pastors. It was sad though to see their kids grow up and be afflicted with the same condition.

I and a few other men helped this family move once. They prepared dinner for everyone...a huge meal of mostly inexpensive starchy foods. The family's plates were heaped with this fare and the room fell silent while they ate. They seemed to be in a trance while they ate, almost a worship service with the food. After dinner everything returned to normal. Strange.

 

[sunlover1]

I like you and what you say. Thank you for your words

Awww that’s so nice! GT isn’t often a friendly place lol
God bless you as you seek to be about your Fathers business!
If we all looked out for one another as you are... what a world we’d have !

 

[GaveMeJoy]

We had morbidly obese family in the church and it was never addressed as a spiritual issue by our pastors. It was sad though to see their kids grow up and be afflicted with the same condition.

I and a few other men helped this family move once. They prepared dinner for everyone...a huge meal of mostly inexpensive starchy foods. The family's plates were heaped with this fare and the room fell silent while they ate. They seemed to be in a trance while they ate, almost a worship service with the food. After dinner everything returned to normal. Strange.

Extremely common in USA churches. Very sad...but until people stop making excuses for it it will continue. You can see this thread has 9 pages of people making excuses for the sin of gluttony.

If the church hated gluttony 1/2 as much as they hate homosexual people there would be a lot more Christians treating their body like a temple instead of like a trash can.

 

[Strong in Him]

If the church hated gluttony 1/2 as much as they hate homosexual people there would be a lot more Christians treating their body like a temple instead of like a trash can.

The church shouldn't hate homosexuals, or anyone else who is different to them.
I'd rather be overweight than full of hatred.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The church shouldn't hate homosexuals, or anyone else who is different to them.
I'd rather be overweight than full of hatred.

There is a very fine line between hatred and embracing. Most Christians I know are seriously attempting to avoid homophobia without encouraging homosexual people in their immorality. It is the old "love the sinner, but hate the sin".

 

[The Liturgist]

However, fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays as per Mr. Wesley's advice was advocated as a means for a morbidly obese person to lose weight. I do not think that is a reasonable solution.

The Lenten diet and the fasting diet observed by Eastern Christians (abstinence from dairy, meat, eggs and for the most part, seafood, and during the weekdays, even olive oil to a large extent), is widely and unwittingly followed all the time by, for example, vegans, and many people do consider it very healthy.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Lenten diet and the fasting diet observed by Eastern Christians (abstinence from dairy, meat, eggs and for the most part, seafood, and during the weekdays, even olive oil to a large extent), is widely and unwittingly followed all the time by, for example, vegans, and many people do consider it very healthy.

I am not in the least bit opposed to various dietary practices. They all have their advocates. What I am saying is that Mr. Wesley's instructions to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays will not be very effective for morbidly obese people. It will require a much more concerted effort for such people to lose the weight which is literally killing them.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Obese people are generally addicted to food. The best way to help them is hospitalization where their diet can be closely controlled. Left to themselves they will usually fail. Sadly, many are quite happy with their weight and see no reason to change.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Where are we told that overeating is a sin against God?

Common sense tells you that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people. This is loosely defined by medical community as someone approximately 100 pounds over their ideal body weight. For example, a 6 foot 30 year old male who weights 275-300 pounds, with the majority of the excess weight being fat (and not muscle). This is not just overweight or “fat” Christians who could use to lose 10-20 pounds to be more healthy.

I believe that in such cases the elders of the church need to work with the morbidly obese individual to address their sin issue (gluttony). If they are willing to address the issue and repent, take steps to overcome, that is ideal. If the person refuses to acknowledge the sin, I think that church discipline procedures should be implemented in order to lead to possible repentance.

Obviously this needs to be done in love and by elder agreement in extreme cases, not fat shaming etc.

remember, in order to maintain morbid obesity status, even with health issues you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels...


I also think if someone is giving themselves diabetes and other health issues from the overeating they need to be called out privately by other believers but that’s more sensitive and I havnt thought through it as much.

I didn't read through the thread yet - did anyone provide better information of the causes of being overweight? Most churches do not have a clue either - so they can't be or aren't much help at all - they actually have meals with foods that increase obesity, and they actually encourage drugs (medicine) that also increases obesity.

Thus the correct information must be found before anyone can be helped, right?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sadly, many are quite happy with their weight and see no reason to change.

Maybe , maybe not. So many people are unnecessarily depressed, and hide it, who knows ? Get the correct information and help eliminate the depression and the diet problems if any at the same time (and the drug problems too) .... Few ever even get started in the right way, let alone continue to help those who need this kind of help.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Maybe , maybe not. So many people are unnecessarily depressed, and hide it, who knows ? Get the correct information and help eliminate the depression and the diet problems if any at the same time (and the drug problems too) .... Few ever even get started in the right way, let alone continue to help those who need this kind of help.

What I have found is that all the information one needs to make improvements in their life is out there, if they are sincere about making changes. Self-motivated improvements have a better chance of success than being badgered by others to do so.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What I have found is that all the information one needs to make improvements in their life is out there, if they are sincere about making changes. Self-motivated improvements have a better chance of success than being badgered by others to do so.

So don't badger them !
That's never been a good idea, unless 'scourging' from Yahweh , or "open rebuke" directed by His Word and Spirit, counts.... (whatever you mean by badger )

Most people never learn the truth. So the way to improve is often not known by anyone in a church/ group.

 

[The Liturgist]

I am not in the least bit opposed to various dietary practices. They all have their advocates. What I am saying is that Mr. Wesley's instructions to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays will not be very effective for morbidly obese people. It will require a much more concerted effort for such people to lose the weight which is literally killing them.

Oh, certainly, we are on the same page, and such people should be working with their doctors in order to pursue a plan to improve to the extent possible their physical health.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Oh, certainly, we are on the same page, and such people should be working with their doctors in order to pursue a plan to improve to the extent possible their physical health.

I agree. Thank you for your excellent post.

 

[Junia]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people. This is loosely defined by medical community as someone approximately 100 pounds over their ideal body weight. For example, a 6 foot 30 year old male who weights 275-300 pounds, with the majority of the excess weight being fat (and not muscle). This is not just overweight or “fat” Christians who could use to lose 10-20 pounds to be more healthy.

I believe that in such cases the elders of the church need to work with the morbidly obese individual to address their sin issue (gluttony). If they are willing to address the issue and repent, take steps to overcome, that is ideal. If the person refuses to acknowledge the sin, I think that church discipline procedures should be implemented in order to lead to possible repentance.

Obviously this needs to be done in love and by elder agreement in extreme cases, not fat shaming etc.

remember, in order to maintain morbid obesity status, even with health issues you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels...


I also think if someone is giving themselves diabetes and other health issues from the overeating they need to be called out privately by other believers but that’s more sensitive and I havnt thought through it as much.

How do you discipline anorexia and bulimia? i think the same approach would be needed here. emphasis on the obese person going to Overeaters Anon or Celebrate Recovery or maybe seeing a therapist?

there is a Christian course some churches in my country (the UK) use called New ID for Eating Disorders and it deals with overeating as well as anorexia and bulimia. many have found it very helpful and have gone on to get further help if needed afterwards.

 

[marineimaging]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people. This is loosely defined by medical community as someone approximately 100 pounds over their ideal body weight. For example, a 6 foot 30 year old male who weights 275-300 pounds, with the majority of the excess weight being fat (and not muscle). This is not just overweight or “fat” Christians who could use to lose 10-20 pounds to be more healthy.

I believe that in such cases the elders of the church need to work with the morbidly obese individual to address their sin issue (gluttony). If they are willing to address the issue and repent, take steps to overcome, that is ideal. If the person refuses to acknowledge the sin, I think that church discipline procedures should be implemented in order to lead to possible repentance.

Obviously this needs to be done in love and by elder agreement in extreme cases, not fat shaming etc.

remember, in order to maintain morbid obesity status, even with health issues you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels...


I also think if someone is giving themselves diabetes and other health issues from the overeating they need to be called out privately by other believers but that’s more sensitive and I havnt thought through it as much.

I weighed 200 lbs at 19. In basic training I gained weight while everyone else lost it. At 58 I had a heart attack and stopped smoking. Over the next 5 years I gained weight to be classed as morbidly obese and while I did eat healthy and intentionally passed on every sweet, ate very little. My problem, Texas heat and humidity and a desk job. So, don't always assume it is food that makes you obese. On another point, I don't think it is the position of the church or anybody in the church to say a word about my weight. My sins are no different than anybody else's so If you wanted to drive me out of the church that would be a sure way to do it.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I weighed 200 lbs at 19. In basic training I gained weight while everyone else lost it. At 58 I had a heart attack and stopped smoking. Over the next 5 years I gained weight to be classed as morbidly obese and while I did eat healthy and intentionally passed on every sweet, ate very little. My problem, Texas heat and humidity and a desk job. So, don't always assume it is food that makes you obese. On another point, I don't think it is the position of the church or anybody in the church to say a word about my weight. My sins are no different than anybody else's so If you wanted to drive me out of the church that would be a sure way to do it.

I understand a lack of the ability to exercise is a big stumbling block for many people that is hard to overcome. However, it is most definitely 100% the food that made you obese. Skipping sweets isn't eating healthy. Portion control, and being restrictive about the types of food and quality of the food you consume at every meal will most definitely result in weight loss which would move you out of the morbidly obese weight bracket. You might not get "skinny" or look like a weight lifter, but the weigh requirements for the morbidly obese designation require a significant and prolonged habit of overeating. You simply cannot be morbidly obese without eating significantly larger portions at every single meal than your body needs to survive. I don't make the rules, it's how the human body was created and scientific fact. Now the church stuff is totally subjective, its probably a bad idea to have churches telling people how to eat in general, unless it's like a bigtime binge eater who is killing their own body and refuses to stop or acknolwege the gluttony, etc.