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Engaging Fellow Christians with Grace and Truth

Duke of Stratford

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There's this interesting dichotomy about the state of the church today. A lot of us are (rightly) concerned about the "fake Christians," the lukewarm, the "easy-believeism" folks. And it's a good thing; we need to teach truth alongside grace. That can be a really hard balance. There are movements going on that are seeking to combat the idea of complacency and prosperity gospel that are going on today, and it's a good thing that they exist.

But I think there's a problem there, too.

These responsive movements can be a little harsh. I understand the thought process: if people are being complacent and abusing grace and settling for a feel-good faith with no sense of discipline, then discipline is what they need. Discipline, rebuke, reality, tough love, red pill. But that often turns to dismissal, nastiness, and a sense of superiority masked as humility. It's very easy, in our correction of people, to view them as the enemy instead of our brothers and sisters. We end up being judgmental in a non-constructive way. "Are you one of those fake Christians?" And we guilt-trip people and make them feel bad instead of winning them back with love. Sometimes, in our efforts to balance truth and grace, we go too far and stop showing grace.

I've seen this bleed into how we deal with people who are struggling and doubting. We too easily can end up like Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar: accusing our brothers and sisters, urging them to seek correction instead of giving them a hand when they need it. Sometimes we do need to repent of sin when we're struggling. We often do. But we also need to let people know that it's okay to be honest about their feelings and struggles because God shows us time and time again that He has grace for those seasons.

All of this is meant well. And, again, I in no way mean to imply we shouldn't exercise rebuke or hard truth when it's needed. But I think we need to figure out how to engage with people and figure out what that specific person needs to hear. That's what Jesus did; there were times when He rebuked and times that He healed. What helps you grow in Christ may not be what your brother needs.

One of my favorite pastors puts it very well here and here.

Grace and truth means truth and grace. It's a tricky balance, and I don't expect people to do it perfectly because we're all learning and growing in Christ. But we should do the best we can to help our brothers and sisters. People are all projects, works in progress, but they're also people.
 

Not David

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There's this interesting dichotomy about the state of the church today. A lot of us are (rightly) concerned about the "fake Christians," the lukewarm, the "easy-believeism" folks. And it's a good thing; we need to teach truth alongside grace. That can be a really hard balance. There are movements going on that are seeking to combat the idea of complacency and prosperity gospel that are going on today, and it's a good thing that they exist.

But I think there's a problem there, too.

These responsive movements can be a little harsh. I understand the thought process: if people are being complacent and abusing grace and settling for a feel-good faith with no sense of discipline, then discipline is what they need. Discipline, rebuke, reality, tough love, red pill. But that often turns to dismissal, nastiness, and a sense of superiority masked as humility. It's very easy, in our correction of people, to view them as the enemy instead of our brothers and sisters. We end up being judgmental in a non-constructive way. "Are you one of those fake Christians?" And we guilt-trip people and make them feel bad instead of winning them back with love. Sometimes, in our efforts to balance truth and grace, we go too far and stop showing grace.

I've seen this bleed into how we deal with people who are struggling and doubting. We too easily can end up like Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar: accusing our brothers and sisters, urging them to seek correction instead of giving them a hand when they need it. Sometimes we do need to repent of sin when we're struggling. We often do. But we also need to let people know that it's okay to be honest about their feelings and struggles because God shows us time and time again that He has grace for those seasons.

All of this is meant well. And, again, I in no way mean to imply we shouldn't exercise rebuke or hard truth when it's needed. But I think we need to figure out how to engage with people and figure out what that specific person needs to hear. That's what Jesus did; there were times when He rebuked and times that He healed. What helps you grow in Christ may not be what your brother needs.

One of my favorite pastors puts it very well here and here.

Grace and truth means truth and grace. It's a tricky balance, and I don't expect people to do it perfectly because we're all learning and growing in Christ. But we should do the best we can to help our brothers and sisters. People are all projects, works in progress, but they're also people.
How have you engaged a fellow Christian?
 
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hedrick

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There are other problems with this. There are major disagreements among Christians about both theology and ethics. To what extent should we regard people who disagree as "fake Christians"? To me, a large majority of postings in CF are from people who seem to be closer to the 1st Cent Pharisees than to Jesus. I'm not talking here about borderline believers or lukewarm people, but committed Christians who in my opinion are committed to things that Jesus opposed.

But Jesus also wanted his followers to be brothers and sisters. I'm not convinced that rejecting people who are clearly committed to following Christ is something Jesus would want, even if I'm convinced they are dead wrong about a lot of what they believe.

I mentioned this because "easy-believeism" is just as commonly made by people who are legalistic against fine Christian believers, as made against people who actually don't think being Christian needs to affect their lives.
 
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Duke of Stratford

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How have you engaged a fellow Christian?
Honestly, that's still something I'm working on figuring out. It's really hard to correct someone, and there have been times I probably should have said something but didn't. That's something I want God to help me with. Here on the forums, at least, I try to give advice while emphasizing that I don't know everything about the person's situation and encourage them to talk to people they know personally, if possible.

The most meaningful engagements I've had from other Christians have been the ones where people listened to me and what I was going through. Once, my church preached a really hard series on Malachi, and the first sermon left me feeling horrible and anxious and shameful. One of the pastors set up a meeting with me, and he explained that that sermon wasn't what every person in the congregation needed to hear. He explained the difference between conviction and condemnation, and the horrible, non-constructive shame I was feeling wasn't godly conviction. And that grace really helped me. But it took engaging with me and understanding my thoughts and emotions for the pastor to help me in that way.
 
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Duke of Stratford

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There are other problems with this. There are major disagreements among Christians about both theology and ethics. To what extent should we regard people who disagree as "fake Christians"? To me, a large majority of postings in CF are from people who seem to be closer to the 1st Cent Pharisees than to Jesus. I'm not talking here about borderline believers or lukewarm people, but committed Christians who in my opinion are committed to things that Jesus opposed.

But Jesus also wanted his followers to be brothers and sisters. I'm not convinced that rejecting people who are clearly committed to following Christ is something Jesus would want, even if I'm convinced they are dead wrong about a lot of what they believe.

I mentioned this because "easy-believeism" is just as commonly made by people who are legalistic against fine Christian believers, as made against people who actually don't think being Christian needs to affect their lives.
I completely agree. People seem to focus too much on questioning whether or not someone is a real Christian as opposed to thinking of how we can build one another up. None of us are going to get everything right--we wouldn't need a Savior if we could! Discernment is good and important and Biblical, but we can't let it turn into condemnation.
 
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bèlla

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When I engage a stranger I spend more time listening and understanding their perspective. Few share every morsel of themselves immediately. Trust is a gradual process. Oftentimes we’re judging the result without understanding the root.

~Bella
 
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Junia

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When I engage a stranger I spend more time listening and understanding their perspective. Few share every morsel of themselves immediately. Trust is a gradual process. Oftentimes we’re judging the result without understanding the root.

~Bella

exactly. i been called a false believer, a lukewarm believer because i believe that all who call on the LOrd isncerely and repent of their sin are saved. because if i were to believe in the view that one sin can keep us out of heaven and that we need to practice sinless perfection before we can be accpeted into Heaven, i would no longer be here. i would have ended my life long ago. or rejected God and become a satanist or atheist.

i have been called a jezebel spirit and kicked out of a church because i was having a breakdwon which manifested in extremely needy and challenging behaviour. i am not saying my behaviour was good but it had a root to it. rooted in a pretty horrifc backstory that few could understand unless either they have lived it or they had been looking at me with the eyes of Jesus

I have been called a false believer and an OSAS promoter (which am actually not) because i believe that paying tithes is not mandatory under the new testament and i prefer to practice a NT model of giving.

I have had prophets prophesy that i am going to hell because i take (neccessaay) medication. they say am practicing witchraft and addiction.

I have been called a Jezebel because i am living a life of happy singleness and have never wanted children. oh, also i had the audacity to leave my father's home and "covering" and live alone.... there is a reason i left my dad and it ain't a pretty story...i wont bore anyone with it on here. there is a reaosn why i dont trust men in a non-platonic way. there is a reason why i feel children would be a huige burden for me as i cannot carry anyone else's needs right now and young children have needs 24/7.i refuse to have children because right now i would not be a good mother and give those children the security and stability that they need. but according ot some, am a jezebel.

so yeah, roots are so important. it is a rare and special believer who recognises that, i feel . and a sign that Jesus definitely is in their walk and ministry.
 
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Junia

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I completely agree. People seem to focus too much on questioning whether or not someone is a real Christian as opposed to thinking of how we can build one another up. None of us are going to get everything right--we wouldn't need a Savior if we could! Discernment is good and important and Biblical, but we can't let it turn into condemnation.

amen!!! we can disagree on all kind of minor points of doctrine but we ar eone in Christ at the end of the day and the world needs to see a united not divided church. of course some disagreements on major sins and false teachings may need to neccessary church breaks- Paul and Barnabas ended up separating at one stage- but why i am seeing often in churches is a lot of bickering over things which are very secondary to the basic Gospel of Jesus. so many of these minor issues are just matters of personal conviction anyway
 
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bèlla

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exactly. i been called a false believer, a lukewarm believer

That isn’t helpful. Some people are fault finders. They enjoy condemning others and placing a yoke of shame around their neck. They’ll use the bible or another philosophy to justify their actions. But Christ came to give us life. We aren’t meant to carry an albatross.

i have been called a jezebel spirit and kicked out of a church because i was having a breakdwon which manifested in extremely needy and challenging behaviour. i am not saying my behaviour was good but it had a root to it. rooted in a pretty horrifc backstory that few could understand unless either they have lived it or they had been looking at me with the eyes of Jesus

I mentioned ‘root’ for those reasons. That’s where gifting and equipping come in. If a situation is too heavy its best to pray on their behalf. There was a period when I walked people through difficult issues. But I’m not in that season. I understand my capacity and what I’m able to take on.

There was a time when I was less discriminating and my helpfulness came at a cost. I was weary and undergoing warfare for battles I wasn’t instructed to enter. Now I direct my attention to topics related to my calling and service.

I have been called a false believer and an OSAS promoter (which am actually not) because i believe that paying tithes is not mandatory under the new testament and i prefer to practice a NT model of giving.

Strong-arming is common behavior in cults. We aren’t supposed to force our opinions on others and berate them if they don’t agree. That’s bullying.

I have been called a Jezebel because i am living a life of happy singleness and have never wanted children.

That has little to do with you personally. I’m not a fan of group think and I’m leery of quasi gurus who want a following. You’re healing. The responsibilities of marriage may be too much right now. That’s okay. It isn’t sinful or demonic.

so yeah, roots are so important. it is a rare and special believer who recognises that, i feel . and a sign that Jesus definitely is in their walk and ministry.

There are reasons we behave the way we do. Ignoring it is a disservice to all.

~Bella
 
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Junia

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That isn’t helpful. Some people are fault finders. They enjoy condemning others and placing a yoke of shame around their neck. They’ll use the bible or another philosophy to justify their actions. But Christ came to give us life. We aren’t meant to carry an albatross.



I mentioned ‘root’ for those reasons. That’s where gifting and equipping come in. If a situation is too heavy its best to pray on their behalf. There was a period when I walked people through difficult issues. But I’m not in that season. I understand my capacity and what I’m able to take on.

There was a time when I was less discriminating and my helpfulness came at a cost. I was weary and undergoing warfare for battles I wasn’t instructed to enter. Now I direct my attention to topics related to my calling and service.



Strong-arming is common behavior in cults. We aren’t supposed to force our opinions on others and berate them if they don’t agree. That’s bullying.



That has little to do with you personally. I’m not a fan of group think and I’m leery of quasi gurus who want a following. You’re healing. The responsibilities of marriage may be too much right now. That’s okay. It isn’t sinful or demonic.



There are reasons we behave the way we do. Ignoring it is a disservice to all.

~Bella

true but it ok if i never marry. or have kids. women are not actually commanded to. that is a myth put out by churches..... i am not into kids. so i am not having them. sin or not, i made my choice. God wont send ,e to hell fo rit because he is love and wont do that

but yeah i agree with the rest of it..... also if you cant help someone hwo is having a breakdown you refer them to psychiatrist. not kick them out. otherwise it is just like kicking someone out of church for havig heart attack
 
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Junia

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There's this interesting dichotomy about the state of the church today. A lot of us are (rightly) concerned about the "fake Christians," the lukewarm, the "easy-believeism" folks. And it's a good thing; we need to teach truth alongside grace. That can be a really hard balance. There are movements going on that are seeking to combat the idea of complacency and prosperity gospel that are going on today, and it's a good thing that they exist.

But I think there's a problem there, too.

These responsive movements can be a little harsh. I understand the thought process: if people are being complacent and abusing grace and settling for a feel-good faith with no sense of discipline, then discipline is what they need. Discipline, rebuke, reality, tough love, red pill. But that often turns to dismissal, nastiness, and a sense of superiority masked as humility. It's very easy, in our correction of people, to view them as the enemy instead of our brothers and sisters. We end up being judgmental in a non-constructive way. "Are you one of those fake Christians?" And we guilt-trip people and make them feel bad instead of winning them back with love. Sometimes, in our efforts to balance truth and grace, we go too far and stop showing grace.

I've seen this bleed into how we deal with people who are struggling and doubting. We too easily can end up like Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar: accusing our brothers and sisters, urging them to seek correction instead of giving them a hand when they need it. Sometimes we do need to repent of sin when we're struggling. We often do. But we also need to let people know that it's okay to be honest about their feelings and struggles because God shows us time and time again that He has grace for those seasons.

All of this is meant well. And, again, I in no way mean to imply we shouldn't exercise rebuke or hard truth when it's needed. But I think we need to figure out how to engage with people and figure out what that specific person needs to hear. That's what Jesus did; there were times when He rebuked and times that He healed. What helps you grow in Christ may not be what your brother needs.

One of my favorite pastors puts it very well here and here.

Grace and truth means truth and grace. It's a tricky balance, and I don't expect people to do it perfectly because we're all learning and growing in Christ. But we should do the best we can to help our brothers and sisters. People are all projects, works in progress, but they're also people.

what is red pill?
 
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hedrick

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exactly. i been called a false believer, a lukewarm believer because i believe that all who call on the LOrd isncerely and repent of their sin are saved. because if i were to believe in the view that one sin can keep us out of heaven and that we need to practice sinless perfection before we can be accpeted into Heaven, i would no longer be here. i would have ended my life long ago. or rejected God and become a satanist or atheist.

i have been called a jezebel spirit and kicked out of a church because i was having a breakdwon which manifested in extremely needy and challenging behaviour. i am not saying my behaviour was good but it had a root to it. rooted in a pretty horrifc backstory that few could understand unless either they have lived it or they had been looking at me with the eyes of Jesus

I have been called a false believer and an OSAS promoter (which am actually not) because i believe that paying tithes is not mandatory under the new testament and i prefer to practice a NT model of giving.

I have had prophets prophesy that i am going to hell because i take (neccessaay) medication. they say am practicing witchraft and addiction.

I have been called a Jezebel because i am living a life of happy singleness and have never wanted children. oh, also i had the audacity to leave my father's home and "covering" and live alone.... there is a reason i left my dad and it ain't a pretty story...i wont bore anyone with it on here. there is a reaosn why i dont trust men in a non-platonic way. there is a reason why i feel children would be a huige burden for me as i cannot carry anyone else's needs right now and young children have needs 24/7.i refuse to have children because right now i would not be a good mother and give those children the security and stability that they need. but according ot some, am a jezebel.

so yeah, roots are so important. it is a rare and special believer who recognises that, i feel . and a sign that Jesus definitely is in their walk and ministry.
That’s pretty terrible. I hope you’re no longer associated with any church that would do this.
 
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Junia

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That’s pretty terrible. I hope you’re no longer associated with any church that would do this.

no. but it has been harder to get it out of my mind. the words they spoke over me have added to the trauma that was already there. my father was born again christian and he abused me and one of the wwys he did that was telling me how bad i was and saying God was saying that to Him about me. he was a "Prophet."

nowadays when people claim to have s spirit of discenrnment i feel uneasy inside.

i am having treatment for PTSD and am in new church now which is very inclusive and very grace based. it has been a balm to my soul
 
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Junia

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it has taken me years for me to believe that God has ever seen me a snaything other than a worthless pile of nothing... am breaking through, finally but it has been lonely. finally at my curren tchurch i have s small group of friends who understand which is great. other christians outside my church??? many of them think am unsaved.
 
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hedrick

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no. but it has been harder to get it out of my mind. the words they spoke over me have added to the trauma that was already there. my father was born again christian and he abused me and one of the wwys he did that was telling me how bad i was and saying God was saying that to Him about me. he was a "Prophet."

nowadays when people claim to have s spirit of discenrnment i feel uneasy inside.

i am having treatment for PTSD and am in new church now which is very inclusive and very grace based. it has been a balm to my soul
That’s good to hear. No one should have to put up with this kind of abuse.
 
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bèlla

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if you cant help someone hwo is having a breakdown you refer them to psychiatrist. not kick them out. otherwise it is just like kicking someone out of church for havig heart attack

I don't understand their behavior. The absence of kindness and condemnation aren't His fruits.

~Bella
 
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bèlla

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what is red pill?

It hails from the Matrix film. Here's a detailed explanation.

The red pill and blue pill is a meme representing a choice between taking either a "red pill" that reveals an unpleasant truth, or taking a "blue pill" to remain in blissful ignorance. The terms are directly derived from a scene in the 1999 film The Matrix...

~Bella
 
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Junia

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I don't understand their behavior. The absence of kindness and condemnation aren't His fruits.

~Bella


sure but that is why they need psychiatrist. it is a disorder not bad behaviour. i am sorry your feelings hurt but some things are not spiritual but medical.
 
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Junia

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It hails from the Matrix film. Here's a detailed explanation.

The red pill and blue pill is a meme representing a choice between taking either a "red pill" that reveals an unpleasant truth, or taking a "blue pill" to remain in blissful ignorance. The terms are directly derived from a scene in the 1999 film The Matrix...

~Bella

ah thanks.

i just dont see God as dishing our unpleasatn truths but gently reassuring us that we can do all things in His strength
 
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Junia

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I don't understand their behavior. The absence of kindness and condemnation aren't His fruits.

~Bella

i am sorry you have had bad experiences though. this i swhy i have a high regard for psychology- i think when people are unwell emotionally in the church it helps to see their behaviour as a sickness rather than as a personal attack. atg least that is why i find helpful, as i hav e been on the other end of it too. both mentally ill and in ministry to them.
 
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