A major King James Version flaw

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The King James Bible and other versions divide the text into verses and chapters. This erroneous division of Scripture leads to many false interpretations and causes people to quote the Bible text message incorrectly, thereby distorting its meaning.

Below is an excellent description of the problems that have been created. Source: blueletterbible.org

There Were No Chapter or Verse Divisions in the Original

When the books of the Bible were originally written, there were no such things as chapters or verses. Each book was written without any breaks from the beginning to the end. Consequently, there are a number of important observations that need to be made about the present chapter and verse divisions that we find in Scripture.

The Books Have Been Divided into Chapters and Verses for Convenience

The chapter and verse divisions were added to the Bible for the sake of convenience. There is no authoritative basis for the divisions we now find. For the greater part of human history, there have been no chapter or verse divisions in Scripture.

The Chapter Divisions Can Cause Problems

The chapter and verse divisions are convenient for reference and quotation purposes. They make it easier to find certain statements and accounts in Scripture.

It must always be remembered that the divisions into chapters and verses are human-made. They are sometimes arbitrary, and they sometimes interfere with the sense of the passage. The first step in Bible interpretation is to ignore the modern chapter and verse divisions.

The Verse Divisions Can Also Cause Problems

Dividing the Bible into verses can also give the impression that the Scripture consists of a number of maxims or wise sayings. For example, Paul wrote to the Colossians:

Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:21 NLT)
This verse, by itself, gives the impression that Scripture encourages some type of physical self-denial. Yet just the opposite is true. In context, Paul is actually teaching against this type of behavior. His argument is as follows:

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:20-21 NLT)
The next verse emphasizes that such restrictions are human commandments—not commandments from God:

Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. (Colossians 2:22 NLT)
When we read the verse in context, it says the following:

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch.” Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person’s evil thoughts and desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)


Therefore, this one verse, when read on its own, gives the wrong impression of the biblical teaching. This is one of the problems with the Bible divided into verses—people will isolate the verses from the rest of the context.

Many more examples could be listed. Indeed, one could argue that the Bible teaches atheism:

There is no God... (Psalm 14:1 NIV)
Of course, the complete verse reads as follows:

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. (Psalm 14:1 NIV)
Others could contend that Jesus taught cannibalism! The Gospel of John records Jesus saying the following:

So Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day, because My flesh is true food and My blood is true drink. The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood lives in Me, and I in him.” (John 6: 53-56 HCSB)
This is why it is important to read each particular verse in context. Otherwise, one can make the Bible say things that it does not want to say.

Dividing the Bible into verses can also give the impression that the Scripture consists of a number of maxims or wise sayings. For example, Paul wrote to the Colossians:

Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:21 NLT)
This verse, by itself, gives the impression that Scripture encourages some type of physical self-denial. Yet just the opposite is true. In context, Paul is actually teaching against this type of behavior. His argument is as follows:

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:20-21 NLT)

Chapters and Verses Are Not What the Authors Intended

The original authors of Scripture did not intend that their writings be divided up into chapters or verses. They intended that the books be read straight through from the beginning. A number of the books of Scripture can be read through in one sitting. This is the best way to discover what the author is trying to say.

Dividing up the Scripture into chapters and verses encourages people to read only small parts at a time. This is not always helpful. This is why the Bible should be read the same way as the original authors intended it to be read.
 

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2017
3,779
2,856
Arizona
✟530,314.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro is often given credit for first dividing the Latin Vulgate into chapters in the real sense, but it is the arrangement of his contemporary and Cardinal Stephen Langton who
in 1205 A.D. created the chapter divisions which are used today."

Chapters and verses of the Bible - Wikipedia



So the chapter divisions happened 400 Years Before the KJV was ever even in existence.


.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
"Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro is often given credit for first dividing the Latin Vulgate into chapters in the real sense, but it is the arrangement of his contemporary and Cardinal Stephen Langton who
in 1205 A.D. created the chapter divisions which are used today."

Chapters and verses of the Bible - Wikipedia



So the chapter divisions happened 400 Years Before the KJV was ever even in existence.


.

And..?

There are other versions of the Bible that are divided (incorrectly) into chapters and separate verses, but the KJV is a version most often read with this translation flaw.

Any translation that is structured this way is also in error. It is an artificial division of the Bible text, and therefore leads to misinterpretation.
 
Upvote 0

Ilikecats

Active Member
Dec 27, 2019
185
70
28
Alberta
✟57,244.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There is a problem of people quoting verses out of context but the chapters and verses of the bible make it easy for readers to identify a passage being referenced. I don’t think that it is a major concern even though there have been gross misunderstandings because of it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2017
3,779
2,856
Arizona
✟530,314.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And..?

There are other versions of the Bible that are divided (incorrectly) into chapters and separate verses, but the KJV is a version most often read with this translation flaw.

Any translation that is structured this way is also in error. It is an artificial division of the Bible text, and therefore leads to misinterpretation.


The Division of Chapters of the Bible have Nothing to do with the KJV and was done Hundreds of years prior.

That's the point.


.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
The King James Bible and other versions divide the text into verses and chapters. This erroneous division of Scripture leads to many false interpretations and causes people to quote the Bible text message incorrectly, thereby distorting its meaning.

Below is an excellent description of the problems that have been created. Source: blueletterbible.org

There Were No Chapter or Verse Divisions in the Original

When the books of the Bible were originally written, there were no such things as chapters or verses. Each book was written without any breaks from the beginning to the end. Consequently, there are a number of important observations that need to be made about the present chapter and verse divisions that we find in Scripture.

The Books Have Been Divided into Chapters and Verses for Convenience

The chapter and verse divisions were added to the Bible for the sake of convenience. There is no authoritative basis for the divisions we now find. For the greater part of human history, there have been no chapter or verse divisions in Scripture.

The Chapter Divisions Can Cause Problems

The chapter and verse divisions are convenient for reference and quotation purposes. They make it easier to find certain statements and accounts in Scripture.

It must always be remembered that the divisions into chapters and verses are human-made. They are sometimes arbitrary, and they sometimes interfere with the sense of the passage. The first step in Bible interpretation is to ignore the modern chapter and verse divisions.

The Verse Divisions Can Also Cause Problems

Dividing the Bible into verses can also give the impression that the Scripture consists of a number of maxims or wise sayings. For example, Paul wrote to the Colossians:

Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:21 NLT)
This verse, by itself, gives the impression that Scripture encourages some type of physical self-denial. Yet just the opposite is true. In context, Paul is actually teaching against this type of behavior. His argument is as follows:

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:20-21 NLT)
The next verse emphasizes that such restrictions are human commandments—not commandments from God:

Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. (Colossians 2:22 NLT)
When we read the verse in context, it says the following:

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch.” Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person’s evil thoughts and desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)


Therefore, this one verse, when read on its own, gives the wrong impression of the biblical teaching. This is one of the problems with the Bible divided into verses—people will isolate the verses from the rest of the context.

Many more examples could be listed. Indeed, one could argue that the Bible teaches atheism:

There is no God... (Psalm 14:1 NIV)
Of course, the complete verse reads as follows:

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. (Psalm 14:1 NIV)
Others could contend that Jesus taught cannibalism! The Gospel of John records Jesus saying the following:

So Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day, because My flesh is true food and My blood is true drink. The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood lives in Me, and I in him.” (John 6: 53-56 HCSB)
This is why it is important to read each particular verse in context. Otherwise, one can make the Bible say things that it does not want to say.

Dividing the Bible into verses can also give the impression that the Scripture consists of a number of maxims or wise sayings. For example, Paul wrote to the Colossians:

Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:21 NLT)
This verse, by itself, gives the impression that Scripture encourages some type of physical self-denial. Yet just the opposite is true. In context, Paul is actually teaching against this type of behavior. His argument is as follows:

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch! (Colossians 2:20-21 NLT)

Chapters and Verses Are Not What the Authors Intended

The original authors of Scripture did not intend that their writings be divided up into chapters or verses. They intended that the books be read straight through from the beginning. A number of the books of Scripture can be read through in one sitting. This is the best way to discover what the author is trying to say.

Dividing up the Scripture into chapters and verses encourages people to read only small parts at a time. This is not always helpful. This is why the Bible should be read the same way as the original authors intended it to be read.
Were the verses really put in the Bible by someone riding on horseback?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: jacks
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
There is a problem of people quoting verses out of context but the chapters and verses of the bible make it easy for readers to identify a passage being referenced. I don’t think that it is a major concern even though there have been gross misunderstandings because of it.

Many Bibles have taken the step of dividing the Bible into chapters and paragraphs, similar to the way we read any other book. IMHO this is entirely appropriate, as it makes sense to modern readers to divide any book that way.

I much prefer those versions as it combines the text logically instead of chopping it into pieces.

Regardless of when the artificial division was started it is inappropriate in any Bible to mangle the text way.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I'd propose that this isn't a KJV flaw exclusively, it's a flaw of all bibles. The flaw has pros and cons. However, I do like having a concordance, so it's a useful flaw.

It's not a flaw of all Bibles. The original books were not written in that manner, but the way the verses are handled creates problems. The KJV and some others divide the text into separate verses; many modern Bibles combine the verses into logical paragraphs. The verse numbers are still there for reference (their original purpose).

A concordance is an excellent reference to find what you're looking for in the Bible, as are commentaries. That was the original purpose: you could find verses you're looking for, but remember that the chapters and verses are there for reference only. They are an artificial method of dividing the Bible text.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
It's not a flaw of all Bibles. The original books were not written in that manner, but the way the verses are handled creates problems. The KJV and some others divide the text into separate verses; many modern Bibles combine the verses into logical paragraphs. The verse numbers are still there for reference (their original purpose).

A concordance is an excellent reference to find what you're looking for in the Bible, as are commentaries. That was the original purpose: you could find verses you're looking for, but remember that the chapters and verses are there for reference only. They are an artificial method of dividing the Bible text.
Do you have a copy of the original books?

I'm wondering if there's any application here?
 
Upvote 0

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
837
260
46
Netanya
✟13,908.00
Country
Israel
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And..?

There are other versions of the Bible that are divided (incorrectly) into chapters and separate verses, but the KJV is a version most often read with this translation flaw.

You say the KJV is flawed., yet you didn't prove it to us.
You only proved it to yourself.

Here is what you can do with a KJV.
Use it to correct all other versions.

For example....In the NIV....it says...>"He who was manifested in the Flesh".
So, get your KJV, and get the accurate translation... it says "God who was manifested in the Flesh".
1 Timothy 3:16

See how that works?
The KJV will clean up all other versions if you use the KJV to filter them.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Heavenhome
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There Were No Chapter or Verse Divisions in the Original

This is not really a KJV issue. This is partly an issue of how prominent the numbers are in a printed Bible, and partly an issue of how people are taught to read and remember the Bible.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Athanasius377
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
We know that none of the old versions have chapter and verse numbers. Those were added centuries later.
I don't think anyone is disputing that.

Can you think of an actual application of this idea though?
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Yes, to de-emphasise verse numbers.
I notice when I quote the bible without verse numbers, people are more likely to accuse me of not providing evidence from the bible. Though it makes their ignorance (or manipulation) transparent, it doesn't help with conversations.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Daniel Marsh
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I notice when I quote the bible without verse numbers,

Personally, I cite e.g. John 1:1-5 and edit out numbers in the quoted text: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

I have been accused of many things, but never of "not providing evidence from the Bible."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Athanasius377
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
837
260
46
Netanya
✟13,908.00
Country
Israel
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We know that none of the old versions have chapter and verse numbers. Those were added centuries later.

Lets get some understanding about all this..
First, there are NO "original Greek Texts"..
None....Not one.
WE have copies of copies....and a very few fragments, and partial pieces of what could be considered the "original" Koine Greek parchments.
So, the first thing you need to really understand, is that when you hear someone say this.

"The original Greek says"....... = BUZZZZZZZ. There is no ORIGINAL.
There are 30 Greek Texts. We use 2,3. = all copies of copies.

Christianity has a plague in it. Its the plague of the "revisionist's mentality", the domain of the intrepid "bible corrector".....where so many pride filled devils sit on their throne of "final authority" and spit on the Bible from their alter of personal self righteousness.

So, when you encounter a person who is IN Public, trying to cast Doubt on the Bible, then change the channel, as you are listening to a subverted heretic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heavenhome
Upvote 0