Petitio principii nexum (begging the connection): a connection you can't recruit for Evolution?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So I just want to appeal to mercy for a moment, is there a connection that you can't recruit for Evolution?

When you beg the question, you can't beg the question of something that is the foundation - you can't for example question meaning, if you question the reality of someone who might find that meaning (either they exist independent of meaning, or not, but they do not "not exist" because you question that existence).

So if you are begging the question of connection, for Evolution's sake, you can't fundamentally expect a connection to mean more Evolution, if you question the creature's ability to sustain that connection - there has to be a limit to how much you recruit for Evolution's sake; you can't have your cake and eat it too?

So in context, for example: what if I said "you won't be able to Evolve further, if you fail to develop this mutation"? Would being left out of Evolution, somehow mean that I don't survive, when I already have enough to survive by? What is that phenomenon? What is it that leaves you in free fall, away from a homogeneous understanding of Evolution? Where is the foundation that tells you "this is how long your Evolution has left"?

I mean we need to be able to work this out, if we are to beat climate change, right? If everyone has an indefinite clock, there is no way to prevent wasting our resources? That makes sense, right?

I am interested to see what you say the limit is.

 

[Shemjaza]

Hi there,

So I just want to appeal to mercy for a moment, is there a connection that you can't recruit for Evolution?

When you beg the question, you can't beg the question of something that is the foundation - you can't for example question meaning, if you question the reality of someone who might find that meaning (either they exist independent of meaning, or not, but they do not "not exist" because you question that existence).

So if you are begging the question of connection, for Evolution's sake, you can't fundamentally expect a connection to mean more Evolution, if you question the creature's ability to sustain that connection - there has to be a limit to how much you recruit for Evolution's sake; you can't have your cake and eat it too?

So in context, for example: what if I said "you won't be able to Evolve further, if you fail to develop this mutation"? Would being left out of Evolution, somehow mean that I don't survive, when I already have enough to survive by? What is that phenomenon? What is it that leaves you in free fall, away from a homogeneous understanding of Evolution? Where is the foundation that tells you "this is how long your Evolution has left"?

I mean we need to be able to work this out, if we are to beat climate change, right? If everyone has an indefinite clock, there is no way to prevent wasting our resources? That makes sense, right?

I am interested to see what you say the limit is.

I'm having difficulty understanding this, can I get you to explain what you mean by a few of the terms you are using?

What does "evolution" mean?

What does "begging the question" mean?

What does "connection" mean?

What does "mutation" mean?

 

[Amittai]

This is very interesting because evolution is too often used as a misnomer for a misconception, stemming from Spencer.

I recommend the sober approach of S J Gould and then we can throw in things Gould didn't happen to subscribe to (because he was an atheist but a practical one) like God's Providence in the sense that He sees what comes next.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

... Yeah, this makes even less sense than your other ones.

 

[Ophiolite]

Hi there,

So I just want to appeal to mercy for a moment, is there a connection that you can't recruit for Evolution?

When you beg the question, you can't beg the question of something that is the foundation - you can't for example question meaning, if you question the reality of someone who might find that meaning (either they exist independent of meaning, or not, but they do not "not exist" because you question that existence).

So if you are begging the question of connection, for Evolution's sake, you can't fundamentally expect a connection to mean more Evolution, if you question the creature's ability to sustain that connection - there has to be a limit to how much you recruit for Evolution's sake; you can't have your cake and eat it too?

So in context, for example: what if I said "you won't be able to Evolve further, if you fail to develop this mutation"? Would being left out of Evolution, somehow mean that I don't survive, when I already have enough to survive by? What is that phenomenon? What is it that leaves you in free fall, away from a homogeneous understanding of Evolution? Where is the foundation that tells you "this is how long your Evolution has left"?

I mean we need to be able to work this out, if we are to beat climate change, right? If everyone has an indefinite clock, there is no way to prevent wasting our resources? That makes sense, right?

I am interested to see what you say the limit is.

Are the connections from or to? Or even through?

The connection is often seen as the structure or process of linkage, but that is almost irrelevant like the different wing beat frequencies of moth genera. Connections must be seen as the changes, the evolution, imposed, created, developed, generated by those connections.

It is behaviour and what is begat by that behaviour that determines the strength of the tendency, the drive, to form the connection. The growth of the connection is incipient in the potential it will unlock. Surely, that is a case where the question can be begged and an offering shall be received?

Exclusion from evolution is ipso facto the evolution of exclusion and that, without connections, is not possible. This renders the hypothetical questions you ask re mutations and survival nolo contendre.

But you need to ask yourself, how permanent is a connection and why? That, surely @Gottservant answers your question concerning limits.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... what if I said "you won't be able to Evolve further, if you fail to develop this mutation"? Would being left out of Evolution, somehow mean that I don't survive, when I already have enough to survive by?

Individuals don't evolve, populations evolve.

 

[Ophiolite]

Individuals don't evolve, populations evolve.

It won't sink in. It never does.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It won't sink in. It never does.

Nevertheless, it bears repeating

 

[Speedwell]

Nevertheless, it bears repeating

If bears repeat, do they evolve?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

If bears repeat, do they evolve?

That's one for Gottservant (or Xianghua)...

 

[Speedwell]

That's one for Gottservant (or Xianghua)...

Robot bears for Xianghua.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Robot bears for Xianghua.

If Xianghua changes definition of words part way through the action, will the robot alter its bearing to compensate?

 

[Gottservant]

In Biblical terms, the question that was not supposed to be begged was how much of the forbidden fruit you could eat without sinning.

We moved beyond that in Christendom, to the question "how do you pay for the difference, if you do (eat the forbidden)?"

If there is no such thing in Evolution, I am afraid to say it: but that means there is no foundational knowledge worth preserving in Evolution, at best.

You are contradicting the importance of experienced knowledge - saying Evolution is post *substitute here*, for no reason - when the purity of an expectation is foundationally the beginning of a passage to greater justification.

You are positing the greater justification, but you are not justifying it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

In Biblical terms, the question that was not supposed to be begged was how much of the forbidden fruit you could eat without sinning.

We moved beyond that in Christendom, to the question "how do you pay for the difference, if you do (eat the forbidden)?"

If there is no such thing in Evolution, I am afraid to say it: but that means there is no foundational knowledge worth preserving in Evolution, at best.

You are contradicting the importance of experienced knowledge - saying Evolution is post *substitute here*, for no reason - when the purity of an expectation is foundationally the beginning of a passage to greater justification.

You are positing the greater justification, but you are not justifying it.

Again, you're not making sense. You clearly don't understand what begging the question means, and you clearly still don't understand anything about evolution.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

In Biblical terms, the question that was not supposed to be begged was how much of the forbidden fruit you could eat without sinning.

We moved beyond that in Christendom, to the question "how do you pay for the difference, if you do (eat the forbidden)?"

I'm wondering if you're aware that 'begging the question' doesn't mean 'asking the question', it means using a circular argument - assuming your conclusion in your premises.

 

[Ophiolite]

Hey, @Gottservant did you intend to respond to my post#5?

 

[Kylie]

Hi there,

So I just want to appeal to mercy for a moment, is there a connection that you can't recruit for Evolution?

When you beg the question, you can't beg the question of something that is the foundation - you can't for example question meaning, if you question the reality of someone who might find that meaning (either they exist independent of meaning, or not, but they do not "not exist" because you question that existence).

So if you are begging the question of connection, for Evolution's sake, you can't fundamentally expect a connection to mean more Evolution, if you question the creature's ability to sustain that connection - there has to be a limit to how much you recruit for Evolution's sake; you can't have your cake and eat it too?

So in context, for example: what if I said "you won't be able to Evolve further, if you fail to develop this mutation"? Would being left out of Evolution, somehow mean that I don't survive, when I already have enough to survive by? What is that phenomenon? What is it that leaves you in free fall, away from a homogeneous understanding of Evolution? Where is the foundation that tells you "this is how long your Evolution has left"?

I mean we need to be able to work this out, if we are to beat climate change, right? If everyone has an indefinite clock, there is no way to prevent wasting our resources? That makes sense, right?

I am interested to see what you say the limit is.

Evolution is not a videogame.

I've played the Tomb Raider games, and there are often parts that tell you that you can't go any further until you get the climbing axe.

But when it comes to evolution, there's nothing like that. There's no point in evolution that says, "You can't evolve any further until you develop X mutation." Evolution just doesn't work like that. Evolution just tries a bunch of different things, and goes with whatever works best.

 

[Ophiolite]

@Gottservant Still waiting for a response to my post #5. May I expect it soon?

 

[Gottservant]

I just mean it as plainly as it sounds:

In Creation we have the forbidden fruit.

What in Evolution, is a forbidden connection?

 

[Shemjaza]

I just mean it as plainly as it sounds:

In Creation we have the forbidden fruit.

What in Evolution, is a forbidden connection?

That isn't a coherent question, because evolution isn't a moral question.