Why I do not accept evolution part two.

[theoneandonlypencil]

The models are always being improved upon. But I would be curious in what you think are flaws in the current models.

My main gripe is with 'natural selection' being the primary driver for evolution, and how outdated it feels in comparison to recent studies on epigenetics and similar fields. I could get more in-depth with that topic, but right now I don't have the time or energy and I'd have to dig up all of my notes on the subject lol

 

[pitabread]

My main gripe is with 'natural selection' being the primary driver for evolution, and how outdated it feels in comparison to recent studies on epigenetics and similar fields. I could get more in-depth with that topic, but right now I don't have the time or energy and I'd have to dig up all of my notes on the subject lol

The relative import of natural selection has been an ongoing debate for what, 50+ years now?

That said, I don't think there is any controversy over it being an important part of evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I prefer the term hominoid, since 'ape' makes it sound like we should all be dwelling in a zoo somewhere

That is just personal prejudice. One thing to remember is that chimps are more closely related to us than they are related to gorillas.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

The relative import of natural selection has been an ongoing debate for what, 50+ years now?

That said, I don't think there is any controversy over it being an important part of evolution.

I don't think natural selection isn't a part of evolution--as I said, my gripe is that I'm not entirely sold that evolution hinges on natural selection(as we understand it) being true or correct, or that it is the 'main' component of evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My main gripe is with 'natural selection' being the primary driver for evolution, and how outdated it feels in comparison to recent studies on epigenetics and similar fields. I could get more in-depth with that topic, but right now I don't have the time or energy and I'd have to dig up all of my notes on the subject lol

Natural selection is only one of various driving forces of evolution. In fact natural selection by itself is not enough. Natural, selection, variation, genetic drift, and perhaps epigenetics plays a role as well. No one on the science side has claimed that we have all of the answers yet.

 

[NxNW]

God designed every molecule in the cosmos from scratch and holds each electron in it's orbit. He also planned every chemical interaction throughout time, A to Z.

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

And therefore he plans every murder, every rape, every robbery and every abortion.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't think natural selection isn't a part of evolution--as I said, my gripe is that I'm not entirely sold that evolution hinges on natural selection(as we understand it) being true or correct, or that it is the 'main' component of evolution.

It is the final component of evolution, where variants are tested--whether the variants are produced by random variation as in the classical model, or by epigenetics or by other processes which scientists are becoming aware of.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

That is just personal prejudice. One thing to remember is that chimps are more closely related to us than they are related to gorillas.

On one hand, what I made was a lighthearted joke about word semantics(the history of 'ape' as a broad classification is a topic all on its own), and on the other hand, I don't really care whether or not chimps are closely related to us in comparison to other species.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

It is the final component of evolution, where variants are tested--whether the variants are produced by random variation as in the classical model, or by epigenetics or by other processes which scientists are becoming aware of.

This explains my point a whole lot better. I'm still learning more about evolution after leaving creationism about 5-6 months ago, so my arguments are certainly not on point yet lol.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

And therefore he plans every murder, every rape, every robbery and every abortion.

That's an unnecessary jab, and totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. That's a theological issue--and even then, it's not a sound accusation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

On one hand, what I made was a lighthearted joke about word semantics(the history of 'ape' as a broad classification is a topic all on its own), and on the other hand, I don't really care whether or not chimps are closely related to us in comparison to other species.

I know that you used a smiley so I should have taken it as a joke. And you are not an evolution denier. But I have seen too many creationists take things far too literally.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This explains my point a whole lot better. I'm still learning more about evolution after leaving creationism about 5-6 months ago, so my arguments are certainly not on point yet lol.

One thing to remember is that there is no dogma in evolution. Some scientists may emphasize one aspect of evolution more than others, but no one's work is written in stone. Epigenetics is a fairly recent discovery that is probably going to have some evolutionary repercussions, even though the changes it causes are not permanently part of the genome. They may still strongly affect selection. The different aspects of evolution do tend to affect each other.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

I know that you used a smiley so I should have taken it as a joke. And you are not an evolution denier. But I have seen too many creationists take things far too literally.

Lol it's alright xD I'm ashamed to say I used to be the 'if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?' kind of creationist, so I understand where you're coming from. Ever since I started learning more about evolution and the literary interpretations of genesis(among other studies on theology), I started understanding what a mess the creationist movement is.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

One thing to remember is that there is no dogma in evolution. Some scientists may emphasize one aspect of evolution more than others, but no one's work is written in stone. Epigenetics is a fairly recent discovery that is probably going to have some evolutionary repercussions, even though the changes it causes are not permanently part of the genome. They may still strongly affect selection. The different aspects of evolution do tend to affect each other.

Yeah, I haven't been studying science and all of the subjects within it for very long so I'm still trying to get over the fact that nothing is, necessarily, set in stone.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol it's alright xD I'm ashamed to say I used to be the 'if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?' kind of creationist, so I understand where you're coming from. Ever since I started learning more about evolution and the literary interpretations of genesis(among other studies on theology), I started understanding what a mess the creationist movement is.

And I used to be a global warming denier. We all have made errors in our lives. Learning from one's errors is how we advance as a whole.

 

[pitabread]

Ever since I started learning more about evolution and the literary interpretations of genesis(among other studies on theology), I started understanding what a mess the creationist movement is.

Oh, the creationist movement is completely screwed. Just based on demographics alone, I think we'll see a significant downshift in creationism in the coming decades. We've already started seeing that just in the past decade.

 

[Tanj]

The moment you've all been waiting for

Indeed I was. Sadly, it lived up to expectation like the last 6 starwars movies compared to the first 3.

I've never seen such an unevidenced barrage of personal incredulity, misunderstanding and misinformation from a layperson before...and that includes Gottservant's posts.

Oh, well, back to hitting refresh on worldometers, I guess.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Oh, the creationist movement is completely screwed. Just based on demographics alone, I think we'll see a radical downshift in creationism in the coming decades. We've already started seeing that just in the past decade.

I think the real kicker is most Christians aren't even aware that the early church did not hold a literal view on Genesis--or, at times, even the first five books of the OT as a whole. Augustine himself said that if our knowledge of the world/science should contradict scripture, we should adjust our interpretation of scripture accordingly; not the other way around.

Jesus' hand is probably glued to his face just knowing instead of 'loving thy neighbor' and obeying his greatest commandments, we're arguing over whether or not scripture should be used as a science manual

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Oh, well, back to hitting refresh on worldometers, I guess.

I try to limit my viewings on worldometers for the moment, lest I lose what little sanity I have left after being quarantined from work for over 14 days straight only to be forced into another 14-day quarantine.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I try to limit my viewings on worldometers for the moment, lest I lose what little sanity I have left after being quarantined from work for over 14 days straight only to be forced into another 14-day quarantine.

I look at it regularly but it is too depressing.

Worse yet our governor just extended our stay at home order. Perhaps not legally. But I am not going to fight it. That would be foolishness on my part.