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Is a skeptic missing the compassionate part of their being, while only focusing on logic?

Amittai

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... your constant trying to link evolution to racism ...

A reminder that this was being done before Darwin and furthermore that attempts to cite another argument in one's own argument, e.g to critique it, are not the same as endorsing it.
 
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Amittai

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... the basic tenants of darwinism (whatever that means)

See the Cambridge Companion to Darwinism 2nd ed.

There is also the fact that in the 1994 publication Proceeings XIX of the Santa Fe Institute on "Complexity", are two totally different summaries of Darwinism, one to my mind even further off beam than the other.

Darwin was highly influenced by Huxley, Spencer and Wallace at the level of personality. He himself didn't know clearly where his data were going. Later discoveries and rediscoveries have got to be factored in.

S J Gould has also written illuminatingly on this.

Please can someone ask the moderators to examine whether there is a technical way to transfer or copy this part of the thread into its own tread.
 
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Amittai

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from post 99:

Yttrium said:
I agree that this is hurtful. It is also very counterproductive. Saying something like that only serves to galvanize others against you. That kind of talk really annoys me.

It's not really a statement of skepticism, though. Skepticism is doubt, not denial.

I know. But from my perspective, the skepticism is against or biased against me, and because there is no mandate from above to love others, they have really no motive for playing nice. 1 So comments like the above, are very standard. I don't think that you yourself are like that. But I think skepticism plays a role. Because in doubting that we are created for a purpose, we have a life that is void of meaning and worth. It's just survival of the fittest. Abortion becomes ok, other types of evils become ok, the more we are skeptical. Because how can you prove it's a human? You can't so therefore it's ok to squash it like a bug. So you see how a skeptic is morally depraved in such manners.

Please CTW!
Yttrium said skepticism is not denial, please acknowledge that.
And why would you want to keep citing your examples. Please return to what you and I with Ken's & larnievc's help, were establishing.
Your "Jesus People" should be mentoring you not grinding you into the ground
I had a technical fault and I didn't get notified, I've got a question for you.
And at 1, someone addressed this, please take on board!
 
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Amittai

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I disagree entirely on this post, but I love you and embrace your freedom to express a view contrary to mY own. See that was not a statement of debate. If I was to debate you on your post, the dryness of the debate due to focusing on logic over feelings makes our dissagreements heated very often. ...

hang on now,

- you didn't explain why you differed on ANY particular let alone ENTIRELY
- if you loved me you would have done so, a bit
- if you loved me you wouldn't be so gushing
- if you loved me you wouldn't be so unctuously condescending in your "embraces"
- no debate that I am in is dry, BY DEFINITION
- logic and feelings in everybody in health are in exceptional harmony thank you, like the heart with the lungs, and the left foot with the right.

The upset is coming from you (due to your earlier life) and not from us.

Please take account of what we have troubled to post. Your statements have to be modified by ours before ours will be modified yours. THIS IS COMPASSION FROM ME - love & kisses XXX.

My compassion "embraces" all other members and non-members reading also!

I have questions based on the point we reached helped by Yttrium.

I have a fault which was that I wasn't notified, so I thought I'd let you catch your breath because I thought you were joining in too fast and I'd help you pace yourself.

Otherwise I'd have pitched straight in because my questions have been ready a couple of days.

Your (your own) thread (in our well-ordered forum) is about the ethics of evangelism remember.

(I hope the posts on the evolution topic can be preserved somewhere.)

Our Father said. Christians can't do logical compassion without praying much.
 
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Amittai

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If it's hurtful for a skeptic to put believing in the Bible as equal to the tooth fairy, don't you understand it's just as hurtful when you claim skeptics cannot be compassionate, or have no motive to be nice?

We have to give CTW tools for mind management such as perspective so as to take in facts which with anyone else could be established.
 
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Amittai

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Thank you for giving your inspiring testimony. As this is the ethics of evangelisation I am interested how your congregation supports you.

In this thread under "general theology":

Great Commission: Personal Evangelism

I think evangelism is meant to be a 'body ministry' not an individual sport.

All should be involved in some capacity to see the great commission accomplished but not all do the evangelising.

When folks learn to reach out in groups then gifts He gives the body come into play with much more fruit.

A great verse to meditate on is "The seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."

Blessings,
Carl Emerson.

My perspective is
It is not for 'every believer.'
- You need some level of 'spiritual maturity.'
- Also, being sensitive / led by His Spirit is essential.
Saying this from my experience.

(Pioneer3mm)

I think it is not a duty, but something that every disciple of Jesus does freely and willingly by living as Jesus taught.

(1213)

You are either sowing good seed or bad seed, but never no seed.

(bling)

In Christianity we all do evangelism whether we think we're doing it or not. We may not understand it, we may even do negative evangelism but we all do it which makes us all evangelist ...

(?)

.................................................................

what do you think of those five replies?
 
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Ken-1122

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See the Cambridge Companion to Darwinism 2nd ed.

There is also the fact that in the 1994 publication Proceeings XIX of the Santa Fe Institute on "Complexity", are two totally different summaries of Darwinism, one to my mind even further off beam than the other.

Darwin was highly influenced by Huxley, Spencer and Wallace at the level of personality. He himself didn't know clearly where his data were going. Later discoveries and rediscoveries have got to be factored in.

S J Gould has also written illuminatingly on this.

Please can someone ask the moderators to examine whether there is a technical way to transfer or copy this part of the thread into its own tread.
My point is; Evolution is not Darwinism. He doesn't seem to be aware of this.
 
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Ken-1122

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We have to give CTW tools for mind management such as perspective so as to take in facts which with anyone else could be established.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Perhaps you can rephrase it in a way that is a little easier to understand.
 
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createdtoworship

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you keep saying that, but it's based upon scientists looking at the facts, there is no evidence biologically, fossil or other that the t-rex evolved into a crocodile, infact we know the evolution of the crocodile quiet well, you do know that crocodiles were around long before t-rex right? Your arguments would hold water if you could show any actual evidence for it. Your against just going, "Uhuh." we have the the feathers on dinosaurs and modern dinosaurs like eagles and such, name any other example of where two groups hold characteristics of each other but are some how in different groups. You can deny all you want the evidence, but you have to explain reasonably why it fits so well that modern dinosaurs like birds evolved from ancient dinosaurs
but the proof you provided was a picture of a feathered tail. And because of that tail, because it has feathers you are linking dinasaurs to birds. I am just saying there is no conclusive data in what was presented, and I mentioned a Trex teeth being in common with an alligators teeth(they are both razor sharp), and wallah I just created my own transition. Now just because a few scientists are on board does not validate my premise, as I just literally made it up out of thin air. You must provide at least some solid peer review or something. But even then who is to say that the bird was not always prehistoric and thus a dinasaur? Firstly, just because dino's have feathers and/or could fly does not make them an ancestor of modern birds. There are many differences between archaeopteryx say and a blue jay. If you want I can pull many of them up. But yeah if you want solid evidence you must provide a transitional fossil photograph between two genra of animals. Again I think some dino's were already birds, that is why they could fly. I see no sense in saying they evolved over millions of years into birds, they already were birds.
 
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createdtoworship

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I use taxonomy because taxonomy does not assume evolution true as it was created a hundred years before darwin. Evolutionists realized there was a genus barrier to the evolutionary process so they sort of created their own evolutionary tree, the only ones who believe in phylogenetics are evolutionists. you typically see taxonomy used over phylogenetics.


it looks like the inventor of the modern taxonomy also views genus as a type of barrier:

"The FROG-FISH, or the metamorphosis is very paradoxical, as Nature would not admit the change of one Genus into another one of a different Class. Rana, as all amphibians, possesses lungs and spiny bones. Spiny fishes are provided with gills instead of lungs. Therefore this change would be contrary to nature's law. For if this fish is provided with gills, it will be different from Rana and the amphibians; if with lungs, it will be a Lizard, for there is all the world of difference between them and Chondropterygii and Plagiuri. "


Carl Linnaeus work systema naturae 1735 (translated from latin to english)

from

https://www.kth.se/polopoly_fs/1.19...umn-content/attachment/Linnaeus--extracts.pdf
 
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KCfromNC

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I use taxonomy because taxonomy does not assume evolution true as it was created a hundred years before darwin. Evolutionists realized there was a genus barrier to the evolutionary process so they sort of created their own evolutionary tree, the only ones who believe in phylogenetics are evolutionists. you typically see taxonomy used over phylogenetics.


it looks like the inventor of the modern taxonomy also views genus as a type of barrier:

"The FROG-FISH, or the metamorphosis is very paradoxical, as Nature would not admit the change of one Genus into another one of a different Class. Rana, as all amphibians, possesses lungs and spiny bones. Spiny fishes are provided with gills instead of lungs. Therefore this change would be contrary to nature's law. For if this fish is provided with gills, it will be different from Rana and the amphibians; if with lungs, it will be a Lizard, for there is all the world of difference between them and Chondropterygii and Plagiuri. "


Carl Linnaeus work systema naturae 1735 (translated from latin to english)

from

https://www.kth.se/polopoly_fs/1.19...umn-content/attachment/Linnaeus--extracts.pdf
I have to wonder if people who use 18th century science to try and cling to their beliefs would also be happy to embrace 18th century medicine, or if this appeal towards stuff from before the US existed is a bit more selective?
 
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VirOptimus

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I use taxonomy because taxonomy does not assume evolution true as it was created a hundred years before darwin. Evolutionists realized there was a genus barrier to the evolutionary process so they sort of created their own evolutionary tree, the only ones who believe in phylogenetics are evolutionists. you typically see taxonomy used over phylogenetics.


it looks like the inventor of the modern taxonomy also views genus as a type of barrier:

"The FROG-FISH, or the metamorphosis is very paradoxical, as Nature would not admit the change of one Genus into another one of a different Class. Rana, as all amphibians, possesses lungs and spiny bones. Spiny fishes are provided with gills instead of lungs. Therefore this change would be contrary to nature's law. For if this fish is provided with gills, it will be different from Rana and the amphibians; if with lungs, it will be a Lizard, for there is all the world of difference between them and Chondropterygii and Plagiuri. "


Carl Linnaeus work systema naturae 1735 (translated from latin to english)

from

https://www.kth.se/polopoly_fs/1.19...umn-content/attachment/Linnaeus--extracts.pdf

You cant pick and choose in science.
 
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createdtoworship

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I have to wonder if people who use 18th century science to try and cling to their beliefs would also be happy to embrace 18th century medicine, or if this appeal towards stuff from before the US existed is a bit more selective?
So this is a logical fallacy called poisoning the well. It is also an ad hominem. Let me explain how the first fallacy applies. It assumes because there was one scientific or medical error that all science or medical practice was in error in the 18th century. That is obviously wrong. Secondly let me explain how an ad hominem works. Typically when a logical premise is valid a skeptic will attack the presenter of said factual information, as sort of a character assasination. It goes as follows...."you quoted 18th century science, therefore you you have embraced all 18th century science, and medicine and all of your arguments are a few hundred years out of date." But taxonomy as we know it is universally accepted to this date. And besides if you can do that with taxonomy, I could do it with darwinism which was only a hundred years later.

If one however didn't want to use fallacy in responding, they merely would address the facts of the matter....that the founder of taxonomy (which is used to this date universally in science and is modern practice) the founder...said there was a barrier to evolutionary change at the genus level. Because that is the barrier where organisms cannot naturally reproduce with one another, for instance a bird cannot mate with a cat and produce fertile offspring. Sometimes you can get cross genus fertilization but they are rare, and the offspring is normally sterile.
 
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VirOptimus

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So this is a logical fallacy called poisoning the well. It is also an ad hominem. Let me explain how the first fallacy applies. It assumes because there was one scientific or medical error that all science or medical practice was in error in the 18th century. That is obviously wrong. Secondly let me explain how an ad hominem works. Typically when a logical premise is valid a skeptic will attack the presenter of said factual information, as sort of a character assasination. It goes as follows...."you quoted 18th century science, therefore you you have embraced all 18th century science, and medicine and all of your arguments are a few hundred years out of date." But taxonomy as we know it is universally accepted to this date. And besides if you can do that with taxonomy, I could do it with darwinism which was only a hundred years later.

If one however didn't want to use fallacy in responding, they merely would address the facts of the matter....that the founder of taxonomy (which is used to this date universally in science and is modern practice) the founder...said there was a barrier to evolutionary change at the genus level. Because that is the barrier where organisms cannot naturally reproduce with one another, for instance a bird cannot mate with a cat and produce fertile offspring. Sometimes you can get cross genus fertilization but they are rare, and the offspring is normally sterile.

....

You really really dont understand biology.

The beliefs of any one scientist is also irrelevant, science is all about data and evidence.
 
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createdtoworship

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Denying my link and instead using older science.
I am using unbiased science. See if you are using phylogenetics, it's biased. See evolutionary biology is the same. They presume the conclusion is true. Begging the question is when you use your conclusion as evidence. You can't do that, that is circular. You must build your case with premises of science, then base your conclusions on your evidence. But simply quoting phylogenetics is circular. It would be like me quoting the Gospel of John to prove the Gospel of John. you can't do that. That is why I ask for taxonomical classifications. Because being a hundred years before darwin, they won't hold the evolutionary biases that phylogenetics have. And thus would be an unbiased source of evidence.
 
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VirOptimus

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I am using unbiased science. See if you are using phylogenetics, it's biased. See evolutionary biology is the same. They presume the conclusion is true. Begging the question is when you use your conclusion as evidence. You can't do that, that is circular. You must build your case with premises of science, then base your conclusions on your evidence. But simply quoting phylogenetics is circular. It would be like me quoting the Gospel of John to prove the Gospel of John. you can't do that. That is why I ask for taxonomical classifications. Because being a hundred years before darwin, they won't hold the evolutionary biases that phylogenetics have. And thus would be an unbiased source of evidence.

No, its not biased, its you who are biased and putting your beliefs over physical reality. A very bad idea.
 
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