Don't need the baptism of the Holy Spirit? exception

[Thomas White]

I see no indication that water baptism would be discontinued after the inauguration of the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Look at what Cornelius did.
He received the gift of the Holy Ghost, (baptism of the Spirit) and then was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins by Peter.
Two different baptisms contribute to our salvation.

Jesus definitively said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." -John 3:16

He didn't say that "whoever believes in him and gets dunked in a pool of water..." The Son of God, God incarnate, straight up says that all we need to do is believe. The water baptism is just a symbol, an outward sign of us calling out to Jesus and professing our belief in him.

I'm going to go with what the Creator said. Pretty sure he would know.

 

[Phil W]

Jesus definitively said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." -John 3:16
He didn't say that "whoever believes in him and gets dunked in a pool of water..." The Son of God, God incarnate, straight up says that all we need to do is believe.

Yes He did say it, in Mark 16:16..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
BTW, how do we get "in Him", as per John 3:16?
Answer...we are "baptized into Christ". (Rom 6:3)

The water baptism is just a symbol, an outward sign of us calling out to Jesus and professing our belief in him.
Has your "symbol" allowed you to be free from sin? (Rom 6:7)

I'm going to go with what the Creator said. Pretty sure he would know.

Me too, but I will also go with what the apostles said.
Peter said..."...unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Remission of sins then the gift of the Holy Ghost will be bestowed.

 

[Thomas White]

Yes He did say it, in Mark 16:16..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
BTW, how do we get "in Him", as per John 3:16?
Answer...we are "baptized into Christ". (Rom 6:3)

Let me just get clarity here. You are arguing that unless a person is dunked in water, they do not have salvation?

 

[Phil W]

Let me just get clarity here. You are arguing that unless a person is dunked in water, they do not have salvation?

That is what Jesus said, and Peter, and I suppose Philip, and Paul.
Without water baptism you can't kill and bury the flesh so you can be raised a new creature with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
Or be free from sin. (Rom 6:7)

 

[Thomas White]

That is what Jesus said, and Peter, and I suppose Philip, and Paul.
Without water baptism you can't kill and bury the flesh so you can be raised a new creature with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
Or be free from sin. (Rom 6:7)

And yet, the conversion on the cross proves that to be an invalid interpretation.

 

[Phil W]

And yet, the conversion on the cross proves that to be an invalid interpretation.

What happened on the cross?
The thief admitted his sin and recognized the punishment was valid.
He was crucified with Christ.
He was promised a new life.
Exactly what happens to everyone who repents of sin, is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-7 exactly.

 

[Thomas White]

What happened on the cross?
The thief admitted his sin and recognized the punishment was valid.
He was crucified with Christ.
He was promised a new life.
Exactly what happens to everyone who repents of sin, is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-7 exactly.

You're leaving out a key point. Jesus didn't require the baptism by water. He was baptized by spirit and fire.

 

[tturt]

There is a baptism at salvation post #14

 

[thelord's_pearl]

There's a doctrine of baptismS,..." (Heb 6:2) There's 3 baptisms; specifically:

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus is the baptism for salvation (blood baptism)
(Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27, +++)
Also, "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise," Eph 1:13 Baptizied into Christ's body (I Cor 12:13)

Water and Spirit baptism follows - not in a set order or time criteria:
2 - By another believer (water baptism) (Matt 28:19++++!)
3 - By Jesus with or into The Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism)
(Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; Acts 11:16++++)' "...as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Gal 3:27

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8

No wonder I asked if there were different derivitives of the Holy Spirit, something like that. Do you mean by blood baptism when we take communion or at the time you believe that Jesus Christ in Lord and put your faith in that where you can receive the Holy Spirit? Then there's one where you get baptized and can receive the Holy Spirit from there as well? And lastly a Spirit baptism, whatever that is, which would just reign on His people? I'm not clear on this. I learned you only get the Holy Spirit from baptism. Thank you

 

[Randy777]

Ok so when Jesus was hung on a cross, another man who committed crime was also hung too and then believed in Jesus and then He said he will be with Him in paradise so does that mean that there's an example like that in which you don't have to be baptized into the Holy Spirit?

It means the man was clean because of the words Jesus spoke to him. You can't box in God for He will do all that He is pleased to do. The man was saved by his faith. Note two asked something of Jesus and only the one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.

It is written man is appointed to die once then face judgment. That is still true but God can make a exception. "Lazarus come forth"

I believe little ones who die who are not of the faith will receive a positive judgment from Jesus. Because they would be considered blameless. That doesn't take away from the way of salvation as preached.

 

[BobRyan]

Ok so when Jesus was hung on a cross, another man who committed crime was also hung too and then believed in Jesus and then He said he will be with Him in paradise so does that mean that there's an example like that in which you don't have to be baptized into the Holy Spirit?

I assume you are talking about water baptism.

Almost no one in the OT was subjected to water baptism.. it was not "a thing" then -- even though Christ reminds us before the cross in John 3 that it was true that they had to have been "born again" no matter if they were baptized in water or not -- to go to heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

I learned you only get the Holy Spirit from baptism. Thank you

You don't get the holy spirit via water baptism.

One must be convicted by the Holy Spirit long before that.
One must be born-again by the Holy Spirit before water baptism.

"according to that - baptism now saves you - NOT the touching of the sacramental waters on the skin - but rather the APPEAL to God for a clean conscience" 1 Peter 3.

 

[Phil W]

You're leaving out a key point. Jesus didn't require the baptism by water. He was baptized by spirit and fire.

Of course not.
Jesus wasn't resurrected yet so there was no point in crucifying and burying the flesh yet, as we couldn't yet be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life till after His resurrection from the dead.
Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins, so He circumvented baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
BTW, the baptism of fire won't happen till the end of the earth. (Matt 3:12)
And the baptism of the Holy Spirit didn't start happening till after the day of Pentecost.

 

[Francis Drake]

The thief on the cross died under the old covenant.

Wrong. He was redeemed by the blood of the lamb, just like all OT saints were.

 

[Thomas White]

Wrong. He was redeemed by the blood of the lamb, just like all OT saints were.

We are all redeemed by the blood of the lamb. That's kind of the point.

 

[Francis Drake]

We are all redeemed by the blood of the lamb. That's kind of the point.

Obviously, but I was responding to @HTacianas who said he was saved by OT law!

 

[tturt]

the lord's pearl, wondering if you had a chance to look at those Scriptures in post 14?

They help us realize that there are 3 baptisms and what happens with each one. The doctrine of baptisms is considered foundational according to Heb 6:1-2

Blood baptism is when we become believers. So the baptism in Mark 16:16 is done when we become believers. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

 

[Thomas White]

Of course not.
Jesus wasn't resurrected yet so there was no point in crucifying and burying the flesh yet, as we couldn't yet be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life till after His resurrection from the dead.
Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins, so He circumvented baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
BTW, the baptism of fire won't happen till the end of the earth. (Matt 3:12)
And the baptism of the Holy Spirit didn't start happening till after the day of Pentecost.

As you say, Jesus has the power to forgive sins. It didn't require ceremony on the cross, and it doesn't require ceremony now. If you have the chance to be baptized, you should. It's a public declaration of your faith in Jesus Christ. Is it required for salvation? No. Jesus has you covered.

 

[Phil W]

the lord's pearl, wondering if you had a chance to look at those Scriptures in post 14?

They help us realize that there are 3 baptisms and what happens with each one. The doctrine of baptisms is considered foundational according to Heb 6:1-2

Blood baptism is when we become believers. So the baptism in Mark 16:16 is done when we become believers. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Could you provide the verses dealing with the 'mechanics' of a blood baptism...please?
How does it happen?
I've never heard of it before.

 

[Phil W]

As you say, Jesus has the power to forgive sins. It didn't require ceremony on the cross, and it doesn't require ceremony now. If you have the chance to be baptized, you should. It's a public declaration of your faith in Jesus Christ. Is it required for salvation? No. Jesus has you covered.

Without baptism by water in the name of Jesus Christ, there is no remission of sin in the NT. (Acts 2:38)
There is no crucifixion of the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
There is no being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:5-6)
There is no death of the old man/creature so no rebirth of a new creature. (Rom 6:4-5)
There is no circumcision done without hand "in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11-12)
And there is no freedom from sin. (Rom 6:7)