An apology from a former member of the Worldwide Church of God

[DennisTate]

Over these past thirty years I've been asking for wisdom..... and for correction of what I had been wrong on?

As I was shown my most serious errors I went through a pretty serious Theological crisis and I church hopped from 1990 to 2000.

I concluded that in each denomination that I attended were a number of people who were praying with chutzpah and boldness and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in their lives was obvious. My wife would be termed Pentecostal or Charismatic, (she was raised Roman Catholic) and she was somehow shown by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to fast and pray for me for thirty five days.... and she did it.... For four weeks for three days per week only fruit juices and for the fifth week seven days in a row only fruit juices and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would wake her up and get her to pray for me in the mornings. My wife did a Deliverance Ministry on me.... .from three thousand miles south of me five months before she met me face to face.

The first time my wife ever spoke in tongues she was in a church in Quito, Ecuador and somebody there from India told her after the service that she had praised God in a dialect of India.

Is Psychology Biblical?

I really like your signature!

I would not trade my old church for some other church. The Worldwide Church of God in spite of all of its many, many, many, many flaws... .brought me up out of Atheism and did a pretty good job of introducing me to the Messianic Gentile movement.

Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong and the pastors did a good job of showing me hidden meaning in the Jewish festivals and various rituals.

But.... .we got into pride.... and perhaps one of the most important lessons that I learned from the WWCG is to not brag.... and not be too critical of other denominations..... because denominations are like humans and we are all flawed.......
criticizing somebody's denomination is a lot like criticizing somebody's mother.... that is a really, really, really rude thing to do.

It is strange how when denominations get competitive they tend to reserve their most vehement attacks for other denominations that they perceive as being the most threatening to them. Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong himself and all the evangelists and pastors in the WWCG had a special running battle going on with Pentecostals and Charismatics.......
and it is interesting how I personally have been shown that our criticisms of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements were both wrong as well as unjust but..........

.... as something of a qualifier...... some of the most gifted Pentecostal and Charismatic teachers...... have stated that there are witches and warlocks who deliberately go to meetings and curse the people there in glossalia (tongues) from the dark side of the force.... in order to muddy the water and turn people away from what I now see may be the most powerful of all of the many metaphorical brides in the harem of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who is indeed greater than his grandfather King Solomon.......

(my apologies if the idea of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus having a harem of churches is offensive.... that is not my intention... I just don't know how else to say this because I think that the analogy sure fits with Matthew 25 )?!

People may hate us because of Jesus,
but let's never give people a reason to hate Jesus because of us

 

[DennisTate]

Here is the doctrine that caused me to realize that my old church was seriously off track:

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

Once I realized how far off we were on the state of the dead Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was soon able to show me error after error after error after error in my thinking on the meaning of Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Welcome, thanks for sharing.

 

[DennisTate]

Welcome, thanks for sharing.

I started a discussion that seems like a logical next step for me as I attempt to make some amends for my sins in this way in the past:


Did Mrs. Marilyn Braxton pray in an especially effective manner?

It looks to me as if the way in which Mrs. Marilyn Braxton prayed for her husband may well deserve a level of attention in some ways right up there with the attention that Mr. Dean Braxton gets as he tells his story about what he saw?


She seems to have prayed in an especially effective manner to see her husband not only brought back after flat-lining for an hour and forty five minutes............ but he came back with none of the negative effects that his doctors expected him to have!

Could we be biased against whatever denomination that is is that Mrs. Marilyn Braxton belongs to?

I plead guilty........ back in 1988 I would have been biased against the way that Mrs. Marilyn Braxton prayed due to the excessive confidence that I had in my particular denomination....... The Worldwide Church of God.

DEAN BRAXTON INTERVIEW (Full-length) with Dr Cecil Stewart OBE

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I started a discussion that seems like a logical next step for me as I attempt to make some amends for my sins in this way in the past:


Did Mrs. Marilyn Braxton pray in an especially effective manner?

DEAN BRAXTON INTERVIEW (Full-length) with Dr Cecil Stewart OBE

I do not have speakers, so I do not know.

 

[DennisTate]

I do not have speakers, so I do not know.

A transcript of one of the major films about Pastor Dean Braxton's near death experience account is available here:

Routine Surgery Opens Door to Heaven

 

[Daniel Marsh]

A transcript of one of the major films about Pastor Dean Braxton's near death experience account is available here:

Routine Surgery Opens Door to Heaven

When I read a story, I look for what can be verified -- see below.

His story sounds like it is based on limited knowledge that we would have in this life. Medical Science has explained these dreams due to lack of oxygen to the brain. I have had surgeries myself and have experienced some odd things, dreams, none of which I would call a vision.

Dr Iregui's in that area are:

Juan C Iregui, MD
Franciscan Medical Group
Specialty(s): Hospice and Palliative Medicine
Primary location: University Place
Phone: 253-534-7000
Providers - CHI Franciscan

Dr. Manuel G. Iregui MD
Tacoma, WA
Specialty / Subspecialties: Pulmonology / Asthma & COPD, Critical Care Medicine, Interstitial Lung Diseases, Sleep Medicine
https://health.usnews.com/doctors/manuel-iregui-171767

Neither Doctor is an Urologist.

Juan is associated with:

Franciscan Medical Clinic - University Place
7210 40th St W, University Place, WA 98466
Is 15 miles 22 min from St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, Washington

Manuel is associated with:

Capital Medical Center
3900 Capital Mall Dr SW, Olympia, WA 98502
Is 68.3 miles 1 hour 19 min from St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, Washington

St. Anthony Hospital-Gig Harbor
11567 Canterwood Blvd, Gig Harbor, WA 98332
Is 23.8 miles 34 min from St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, Washington

They are not in the same city as the St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, nor do they practice there. They would not be practicing in the Emergency Room. Neither Doctor is an Urologist.

A Major problem is a Doctor will not do a surgery without checking for an infection first. It turns out if the infection is bad enough they will do the surgery. The point is the infection would not be a surprise, and measures would be taken beforehand.

This statement makes me nervous, "They came to greet me in. I was like, ‘God…’”"

I don't see why they did not try these procedures first?

These four treatments can be used on your kidney stones:

Shock wave lithotripsy
Ureteroscopy
Percutaneous nephrolithotomy or percutaneous nephrolithotripsy
Open surgery
Here’s more about each of these:
https://www.webmd.com/kidney-stones/surgery-for-kidney-stone

In short, the facts do not line up with the story.
The Doctors are not in the same city as the Hospital in question.
Neither Doctor is an Urologist.
They do not practice at the Hospital in question.
Infection is checked for before surgery and measures taken.
The story is based on limited knowledge we have in this life.

Philippians 4:4-9 Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)
4 Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say, Rejoice.

5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is near.

6 Be anxious for nothing, but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, exercise yourselves in these things.

9 Those things, which ye have both learned and received and heard and seen in me, do, and the God of peace shall be with you.

 

[DennisTate]

When I read a story, I look for what can be verified -- see below.

His story sounds like it is based on limited knowledge that we would have in this life. Medical Science has explained these dreams due to lack of oxygen to the brain. I have had surgeries myself and have experienced some odd things, dreams, none of which I would call a vision.

Dr Iregui's in that area are:

Juan C Iregui, MD
Franciscan Medical Group
Specialty(s): Hospice and Palliative Medicine
Primary location: University Place
Phone: 253-534-7000
Providers - CHI Franciscan

Dr. Manuel G. Iregui MD
Tacoma, WA
Specialty / Subspecialties: Pulmonology / Asthma & COPD, Critical Care Medicine, Interstitial Lung Diseases, Sleep Medicine
https://health.usnews.com/doctors/manuel-iregui-171767

Neither Doctor is an Urologist.

Juan is associated with:

Franciscan Medical Clinic - University Place
7210 40th St W, University Place, WA 98466
Is 15 miles 22 min from St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, Washington

Manuel is associated with:

Capital Medical Center
3900 Capital Mall Dr SW, Olympia, WA 98502
Is 68.3 miles 1 hour 19 min from St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, Washington

St. Anthony Hospital-Gig Harbor
11567 Canterwood Blvd, Gig Harbor, WA 98332
Is 23.8 miles 34 min from St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, Washington

They are not in the same city as the St. Francis Hospital in Federal Way, nor do they practice there. They would not be practicing in the Emergency Room. Neither Doctor is an Urologist.

A Major problem is a Doctor will not do a surgery without checking for an infection first. It turns out if the infection is bad enough they will do the surgery. The point is the infection would not be a surprise, and measures would be taken beforehand.

This statement makes me nervous, "They came to greet me in. I was like, ‘God…’”"

I don't see why they did not try these procedures first?

These four treatments can be used on your kidney stones:

Shock wave lithotripsy
Ureteroscopy
Percutaneous nephrolithotomy or percutaneous nephrolithotripsy
Open surgery
Here’s more about each of these:
When Do I Need Surgery for a Kidney Stone?

In short, the facts do not line up with the story.
The Doctors are not in the same city as the Hospital in question.
Neither Doctor is an Urologist.
They do not practice at the Hospital in question.
Infection is checked for before surgery and measures taken.
The story is based on limited knowledge we have in this life.

Philippians 4:4-9 Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)
4 Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say, Rejoice.

5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is near.

6 Be anxious for nothing, but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, exercise yourselves in these things.

9 Those things, which ye have both learned and received and heard and seen in me, do, and the God of peace shall be with you.

Have you heard about the Bible that is dripping oil in Dalton, Georgia?

You may want to go back to the opening post but I wanted you to know that I linked this discussion to that one.


Is it OK for Jesus to cause a Bible to drip oil?